Roast I've lost my faith in Chris Davies

[Janus]

Just for 2022, but if you are going to go with Schofield then add Williams, Lord and Jackson. Their output hasn't been any better.
Also add Frederick and Mayes based on the way you have categorised others in previous years eg Lienert, Neade etc. No one is listing them.
And by output produced, I'd add Motlop and Fantasia. Pasini and Sinn were injured for nearly all of the year.

We haven't been good enough, except for in 2020 when covid impact meant so many things were in our advantage and we just got unlucky to play Richmond in the PF and not GF. Smash Geelong in the QF and the reward is play Richmond in the PF.

We have failed time and time again when it really counts against the top side. The whole footy department has, so we haven't been good enough, otherwise we would have done something about it. Part of being good enough, is being mentally strong to be good enough. We aren't close enough on that criteria.

I didn't add Williams, Lord and Jackson because they haven't been delisted yet.

Frederick and Mayes put in decent performances at times. You'll notice that I only added Neade after 2017 when his output tanked. Lienert I never rated.

Motlop and Fantasia have been matchwinners for us. Motlop cannot be classified as a liability when he kicks three goals in a QF against Geelong, and Fantasia's issue is injury related, not talent.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

I didn't add Williams, Lord and Jackson because they haven't been delisted yet.

Frederick and Mayes put in decent performances at times. You'll notice that I only added Neade after 2017 when his output tanked. Lienert I never rated.

Motlop and Fantasia have been matchwinners for us. Motlop cannot be classified as a liability when he kicks three goals in a QF against Geelong, and Fantasia's issue is injury related, not talent.

Williams has been delisted, but will be re rookied if someone doesn't nab him. There is something in that.

If you are going to call Lienert a spud, who played 23 games for the club and was delisted, then Mayes who played 20 games and Frederick who played 14 games and were delisted, get the same spud-ometer rating.

Motlop didn't do anything for us this year. If you put Ryder, Monfries and Watts down with a * then you have to do the same for Fantasia in 2022.

 

[Enviable Tradition]

Our best 22 has been good enough over the last decade to win a flag.

Our list? Defend these spuds (players with a * aren't spuds, but they were missing for that year):

2013 - Hitchcock, Heath, Renouf, Butcher, Stevenson, Salter, Thomas, Shaw, Blee, Colquhoun, Pfeiffer, Redden, Newton, Stewart, Butcher, Hoskin
2014 - Hitchcock, Heath, Renouf, Butcher, Stevenson, Shaw, Colquhoun, Harvey, Redden, Newton, Russell
2015 - Mitchell, Butcher, Shaw, Austin, Colquhoun, Harvey, Redden, Palmer, Frampton, Logan, Russell, Krakouer
2016 - Ryder*, Monfries*, Mitchell, Butcher, O'Shea, Toumpas, Austin, Colquhoun, Johnson, Snelling, Palmer, Frampton, Hewett
2017 - Frampton, Toumpas, Lobbe, Austin, Eddy, Atley, Johnson, Snelling, Palmer, Lienert, Hewett, Krakouer
2018 - Neade, Frampton, Toumpas, Trengove, Garner, Atley, Johnson, Snelling, Patmore, Lienert, Barry, Hewett, Thomas
2019 - Frampton, Trengove, Watts*, Garner, Atley, Johnson, Woodcock, Patmore, Lienert, Grundy, Cox, Sutcliffe
2020 - Buzza, Watts*, Garner, Atley, Burgoyne, Woodcock, Patmore, Lienert, Grundy, Cox, Sutcliffe
2021 - Garner, Burgoyne, Woodcock, Schofield, Goldsack, McEntee
2022 - Skinner, Schofield, McEntee
2023 - McEntee

I would say that our list has been good enough to win a flag sine 2021.



I was enamored with our best 22 from 2013 until now too. That's why I kept saying 'If we can keep fit and firing, we can win the flag'. But I was wrong. Because a flag isn't won by the talent of your best 22 - it's won by the players underneath pushing the best 22 to reach their zenith.

Nah.

You're still wrong.

 

[chiwigi]

Nah.

You're still wrong.

It's also not what he said in each of those years! He claimed we'd win them .

 

[El_Scorcho]

Our best 22 has been good enough over the last decade to win a flag.

Our list? Defend these spuds (players with a * aren't spuds, but they were missing for that year):

2013 - Hitchcock, Heath, Renouf, Butcher, Stevenson, Salter, Thomas, Shaw, Blee, Colquhoun, Pfeiffer, Redden, Newton, Stewart, Butcher, Hoskin
2014 - Hitchcock, Heath, Renouf, Butcher, Stevenson, Shaw, Colquhoun, Harvey, Redden, Newton, Russell
2015 - Mitchell, Butcher, Shaw, Austin, Colquhoun, Harvey, Redden, Palmer, Frampton, Logan, Russell, Krakouer
2016 - Ryder*, Monfries*, Mitchell, Butcher, O'Shea, Toumpas, Austin, Colquhoun, Johnson, Snelling, Palmer, Frampton, Hewett
2017 - Frampton, Toumpas, Lobbe, Austin, Eddy, Atley, Johnson, Snelling, Palmer, Lienert, Hewett, Krakouer
2018 - Neade, Frampton, Toumpas, Trengove, Garner, Atley, Johnson, Snelling, Patmore, Lienert, Barry, Hewett, Thomas
2019 - Frampton, Trengove, Watts*, Garner, Atley, Johnson, Woodcock, Patmore, Lienert, Grundy, Cox, Sutcliffe
2020 - Buzza, Watts*, Garner, Atley, Burgoyne, Woodcock, Patmore, Lienert, Grundy, Cox, Sutcliffe
2021 - Garner, Burgoyne, Woodcock, Schofield, Goldsack, McEntee
2022 - Skinner, Schofield, McEntee
2023 - McEntee

I would say that our list has been good enough to win a flag sine 2021.



I was enamored with our best 22 from 2013 until now too. That's why I kept saying 'If we can keep fit and firing, we can win the flag'. But I was wrong. Because a flag isn't won by the talent of your best 22 - it's won by the players underneath pushing the best 22 to reach their zenith.

West, Gamble, Djerrkura, Spencer, Owen, Prismall, Hogan, Playfair, Blake, Grima, Reynolds, Hunt, Davenport, Bedford.

Players 23-30 odd are a massive part of any premiership side. From there on out, there are a group of spuds on every list.

 

[Janus]

West, Gamble, Djerrkura, Spencer, Owen, Prismall, Hogan, Playfair, Blake, Grima, Reynolds, Hunt, Davenport, Bedford.

Players 23-30 odd are a massive part of any premiership side. From there on out, there are a group of spuds on every list.

These guys contributed toward the 2007 Geelong premiership season for at least one game, hence they can't be spuds:

Prismall - 8 games before 2007, 5 games in 2007 (played 25 games for Geelong before being traded to Essendon where he played a further 38 games)
Playfair - 51 games before 2007, 1 game in 2007 (traded to Sydney where he played a further 16 games - 5 as a rookie)
Blake - 11 games before 2007, 22 games in 2007 (played in the 2008 GF and the 2009 premiership - was this a mistake on your part?)
Gardiner - 49 games before 2007, 2 games in 2007 (traded to St Kilda and played another 12 games)

These guys were decent enough to have played the equivalent of a season of AFL:

Davenport - 21 in 2007 - 0 games before 2007, 0 games in 2007 (ended up playing 28 games for Port Adelaide)
Reynolds - 22 in 2007 - 38 games before 2007, 0 games in 2007 (had played 38 games for Essendon)
Callan - 23 in 2007 - 15 games before 2007, 0 games in 2007 (played a further 18 games for the Bulldogs)

These guys were bonafide spuds:

Spencer - 22 in 2007 - 2 games before 2007, 0 games in 2007
Grima - 20 in 2007 - 0 games before 2007, 0 games in 2007 - delisted without playing a game
Hunt - 24 in 2007 - 7 games before 2007, 0 games in 2007 - delisted without playing a game for Geelong
Bedford - 18 in 2007 - 0 games in 2007, traded to West Coast, never played a game
Owen - 19 in 2007 - 0 games before 2007, 0 games in 2007 - didn't play a single game

As for the others you listed as spuds:

Hogan - 18 in 2007 - 0 games in 2007 (ended up playing 22 games for Geelong)
Djerrkura - 18 in 2007 - 0 games before 2007, 0 games in 2007 (played 4 games for Geelong before being traded to the Bulldogs where he played a further 21 games)
Gamble - 19 in 2007 - 1 game before 2007, 0 games in 2007 (ended up playing 23 games for Geelong and 11 games for St Kilda)
West - 19 in 2007 - 0 games before 2007, 0 games in 2007 (ended up playing 54 games for Geelong (including the 2011 premiership) and 16 games for Brisbane)

There's a bit of a difference in not getting a game for a premiership side and not getting a game for a team that misses finals, wouldn't you say?

 

[Schulzenfest]

There's a bit of a difference in not getting a game for a premiership side and not getting a game for a team that misses finals, wouldn't you say?

This is bafflingly stupid circular logic.

'Premiership lists don't have any spuds on them because you can't be a spud if you're on a premiership list'.

 

[Launchpad McQuack]

These guys contributed toward the 2007 Geelong premiership season for at least one game, hence they can't be spuds:

Prismall - 8 games before 2007, 5 games in 2007 (played 25 games for Geelong before being traded to Essendon where he played a further 38 games)
Playfair - 51 games before 2007, 1 game in 2007 (traded to Sydney where he played a further 16 games - 5 as a rookie)
Blake - 11 games before 2007, 22 games in 2007 (played in the 2008 GF and the 2009 premiership - was this a mistake on your part?)
Gardiner - 49 games before 2007, 2 games in 2007 (traded to St Kilda and played another 12 games)

These guys were decent enough to have played the equivalent of a season of AFL:

Davenport - 21 in 2007 - 0 games before 2007, 0 games in 2007 (ended up playing 28 games for Port Adelaide)
Reynolds - 22 in 2007 - 38 games before 2007, 0 games in 2007 (had played 38 games for Essendon)
Callan - 23 in 2007 - 15 games before 2007, 0 games in 2007 (played a further 18 games for the Bulldogs)

These guys were bonafide spuds:

Spencer - 22 in 2007 - 2 games before 2007, 0 games in 2007
Grima - 20 in 2007 - 0 games before 2007, 0 games in 2007 - delisted without playing a game
Hunt - 24 in 2007 - 7 games before 2007, 0 games in 2007 - delisted without playing a game for Geelong
Bedford - 18 in 2007 - 0 games in 2007, traded to West Coast, never played a game
Owen - 19 in 2007 - 0 games before 2007, 0 games in 2007 - didn't play a single game

As for the others you listed as spuds:

Hogan - 18 in 2007 - 0 games in 2007 (ended up playing 22 games for Geelong)
Djerrkura - 18 in 2007 - 0 games before 2007, 0 games in 2007 (played 4 games for Geelong before being traded to the Bulldogs where he played a further 21 games)
Gamble - 19 in 2007 - 1 game before 2007, 0 games in 2007 (ended up playing 23 games for Geelong and 11 games for St Kilda)
West - 19 in 2007 - 0 games before 2007, 0 games in 2007 (ended up playing 54 games for Geelong (including the 2011 premiership) and 16 games for Brisbane)

There's a bit of a difference in not getting a game for a premiership side and not getting a game for a team that misses finals, wouldn't you say?

I ask this question earnestly. What is the difference between a hack and a spud, considering the above and your previous comments about Nankervis being a hack the year after Richmond won the 2017 flag?

 

[Janus]

I ask this question earnestly. What is the difference between a hack and a spud, considering the above and your previous comments about Nankervis being a hack the year after Richmond won the 2017 flag?

A hack is someone who tries really hard and does their best but will never be pointed to as text book in their field of endeavour, but they make up for it through sheer force of will. Matthew Lobbe in 2014 was a hack.

A spud is someone who has no redeeming features at all. Not only are they not talented, they don’t even put effort in to compensate for that lack of talent. Matthew Lobbe 2015-when he was delisted was a spud.

I had to actually go look up what you were referring to - the context was that Westhoff (who had just beaten Aaron Sandilands) was just as good a ruck as Nankervis (at the time - Nank became much better as his career at Richmond wore on), so I didn’t understand why losing Ryder was such a big deal. I would consider Westhoff a hack when he went into the ruck too.

The very next day, I posted the following:

“Um, Richmond won the flag off the back of Nankervis, who ain't exactly dominant in the ruck but can get around the ground. Westhoff is easily his equal. And Richmond ignores the ruck position all the time.

I'll say it again - unless you've got an elite ruck, all you need is someone who can compete. It's far more important to perform defensive duties.”

 

[agmsy]

both areas overseen by the footy department boss.

It would be helpful to know Davies' level of oversight and decision-making capacity re: the "playing games of football" part of out football department.

 

[charcolechaddy]

It would be helpful to know Davies' level of oversight and decision-making capacity re: the "playing games of football" part of out football department.

WTF blah

 

[longdonkey]

Nah.

You're still wrong.

Don't even have to read it to know its wrong

 

[Jojay]

Ever since CD made that stupid "professional jealousy" comment re the crows, we've been on a downhill trajectory ever since. He can piss off with Koch, Ken an Co.

 

[TazD]

Ever since CD made that stupid "professional jealousy" comment re the crows, we've been on a downhill trajectory ever since. He can piss off with Koch, Ken an Co.

Downhill started long before that

 

[El_Scorcho]

Might be highly regarded, might do a lot of things well, but is a co-conspirator at this point given the insane coaching situation we've found ourselves in.

 

[PowerLil]

Might be highly regarded, might do a lot of things well, but is a co-conspirator at this point given the insane coaching situation we've found ourselves in.

He's not highly regarded by me, that's for sure. Hinkley, Koch, Davies, Richardson, in that order of sh*tness.

 

[Sleezy]

I'd love to know whether the cheap as chips coaching panel is his doing, or a result of budget limitations coming from above.

Is he hamstrung by the bean-counters above, or does he really think this is the best coaching panel we could have?

 

[ibd77]

I'm not sure about the setiments against CD and what his actual role is at the club but from my perspective he is good recruiter and trader. I don't think its his problem to develop the players to suit a game style. That's Hinkleys job aint it?

 

[Windy Cindy]

he does love the club passionately and despises the crows

i think hes conflicted when it comes to hinkley

 

[PowerLil]

He's actively complicit in this sh*tshow. Hinkley sits under Davies. All four must go, Koch, Hinkley, Davies, Richardson.

 

[PAFC_FOREVER]

I'm not sure about the setiments against CD and what his actual role is at the club but from my perspective he is good recruiter and trader. I don't think its his problem to develop the players to suit a game style. That's Hinkleys job aint it?

This. I'm not against him staying.

People here jump to so many conclusions and blame everyone else for anything.

You can't go against the club and coach, use common sense people.

 

[tribey]

Might be highly regarded, might do a lot of things well, but is a co-conspirator at this point given the insane coaching situation we've found ourselves in.

Got a whiff of Greg Miller about him, who lived off acquiring Carey, Longmire and Buckley with brown paper bags for literally decades.

 

[misternoitall]

I'd love to know whether the cheap as chips coaching panel is his doing, or a result of budget limitations coming from above.

Is he hamstrung by the bean-counters above, or does he really think this is the best coaching panel we could have?

I would bet my life its due to budget constraints and a very highly paid head coach.

 

[PowerLil]

Is Davies being sought after for a role within the AFL? I believe the key to getting rid of Hinkley is closely linked to bro-handshaking best mate Chris Davies moving on.

 

[El Zorro]

Bumping this in light of the concussion debacle and CD being the guy "directly negotiating" KH's extension. It's clear that he's as much of the problem as Koch and Richardson. Massive clean out needed at the club, including CD.