Conspiracy Theory Kennedy Assassination - 50 years on

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Kellythatsit

Kellythatsit

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So it has been 50 years today that US Pesident John F Kennedy was executed in Dallas, Texas. After multiple investigations and a million pages written on the subject something akin to between two thirds to two quarters of Western civilisation believes the final conclusions of these investigations are a lie and serve only to cover up the true perpetrators of this crime.

Did Oswald do it? Was he part of a conspiracy? Or was he just as he put it "a patsy"?


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There's a news story this morning saying that a guy has footage of a 2nd gunman. If this is legit, it would be a huge development in this case.
 

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The assassination of Kennedy and what may have, did and could have happened is maybe too long ago and too confused to draw a conclusion today, however given the vast majority believe more than one assassin was involved, it is still an interesting and important discussion
Having really only glanced at the Warren Commision, can you , Kelly , tell me if those who swore they saw gunmen or heard shots from the knoll were included in its findings anywhere ?
 
Kellythatsit said:
So it has been 50 years today that US Pesident John F Kennedy was executed in Dallas, Texas. After multiple investigations and a million pages written on the subject something akin to between two thirds to two quarters of Western civilisation believes the final conclusions of these investigations are a lie and serve only to cover up the true perpetrators of this crime.

Did Oswald do it? Was he part of a conspiracy? Or was he just as he put it "a patsy"?
Click to expand...

Yes, Oswald did do it.
No, he was not part of a conspiracy.
No, he was not a "patsy".

Here's some facts to ponder:

1. The Carcano rifle found in the Texas Book Store Depository building was ordered and paid for by Oswald.
2. Oswald worked in the building.
3. He was the only employee not present 45 minutes after the assassination.
4. His fingerprints were on the rifle.
5. Shell casings were found near the 6th floor window.
6. He was a trained marksman in the marines.
7. The only bullets or bullet fragments recovered came from Oswald's rifle.
8. The first shot missed. So anyone who thinks it was a freakishly amazing feat of marksmanship needs to explain why he obligingly missed the first shot.
9. It was a cheap rifle, which made sense as he had very little money.
10. After he left the Book Store Depository building, he went home by taxi (for the first time in his life), and grabbed his .38 pistol. Hardly the act of a guy on his day off (which he claimed).
11. He shot and killed at point blank range a police officer who confronted him.
12. He hid in a movie theatre and attacked the policemen who eventually arrested him.
13. He tried to assassinate Major General Edwin Walker months before Kennedy.
14. He was seriously unstable and violent from an early age.
 
Glacier said:
The assassination of Kennedy and what may have, did and could have happened is maybe too long ago and too confused to draw a conclusion today, however given the vast majority believe more than one assassin was involved, it is still an interesting and important discussion
Having really only glanced at the Warren Commision, can you , Kelly , tell me if those who swore they saw gunmen or heard shots from the knoll were included in its findings anywhere ?
Click to expand...
Most witnesses said that the shots they heard came from the book depository. A few heard from both the book depository AND the grassy knoll. Very few (at the time) said they heard shots from only the knoll.

The only person sighted with a rifle (again at the time) was seen on the 6th floor of the School Book Depository immediately before and during the assassination by at least 3 witnesses. The description of that shooter matches Oswald.

During the commission hearings, no one that I'm aware of claimed to have seen an assassin anywhere else. Later however, people did start saying they had seen someone shooting from the knoll, however, these stories to me are less than compelling. Especially after a little research.

To answer your question though, yes, the few observers who claimed they heard/saw something from the knoll were included in the volumes.


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Partridge said:
Yes, Oswald did do it.
No, he was not part of a conspiracy.
No, he was not a "patsy".

Here's some facts to ponder:

1. The Carcano rifle found in the Texas Book Store Depository building was ordered and paid for by Oswald.
2. Oswald worked in the building.
3. He was the only employee not present 45 minutes after the assassination.
4. His fingerprints were on the rifle.
5. Shell casings were found near the 6th floor window.
6. He was a trained marksman in the marines.
7. The only bullets or bullet fragments recovered came from Oswald's rifle.
8. The first shot missed. So anyone who thinks it was a freakishly amazing feat of marksmanship needs to explain why he obligingly missed the first shot.
9. It was a cheap rifle, which made sense as he had very little money.
10. After he left the Book Store Depository building, he went home by taxi (for the first time in his life), and grabbed his .38 pistol. Hardly the act of a guy on his day off (which he claimed).
11. He shot and killed at point blank range a police officer who confronted him.
12. He hid in a movie theatre and attacked the policemen who eventually arrested him.
13. He tried to assassinate Major General Edwin Walker months before Kennedy.
14. He was seriously unstable and violent from an early age.
Click to expand...
Excellent summation ....

15. He also carried a long package into the building the morning of the assassination which he claimed were curtain rods.

16. He was photographed by Marina Oswald holding both the Carcano and the .38 in April that year.


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Kellythatsit said:
Excellent summation ....

15. He also carried a long package into the building the morning of the assassination which he claimed were curtain rods.

16. He was photographed by Marina Oswald holding both the Carcano and the .38 in April that year.


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Click to expand...

Didn't know the curtain rods explanation. Why isn't there a "Curtain Rod Theory"? Give it time.

I don't know why people feel the need to invent shit, the truth of this case is fascinating enough.
 
Partridge said:
Didn't know the curtain rods explanation. Why isn't there a "Curtain Rod Theory"? Give it time.

I don't know why people feel the need to invent shit, the truth of this case is fascinating enough.
Click to expand...
Indeed. To me this is the grand daddy of all conspiracy theories and I love how so much is made of the tiniest detail. It is a hugely compelling case.


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Kellythatsit said:
Indeed. To me this is the grand daddy of all conspiracy theories and I love how so much is made of the tiniest detail. It is a hugely compelling case.


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Click to expand...

Mate
How confident are you in keeping this from becoming a shit fight ?
I agree this is a hugely compelling case which I will contribute, I just hope it doesn't get derailed for you
 
Partridge said:
Yes, Oswald did do it.
No, he was not part of a conspiracy.
No, he was not a "patsy".

Here's some facts to ponder:

1. The Carcano rifle found in the Texas Book Store Depository building was ordered and paid for by Oswald.
2. Oswald worked in the building.
3. He was the only employee not present 45 minutes after the assassination.
4. His fingerprints were on the rifle.
5. Shell casings were found near the 6th floor window.
6. He was a trained marksman in the marines.
7. The only bullets or bullet fragments recovered came from Oswald's rifle.
8. The first shot missed. So anyone who thinks it was a freakishly amazing feat of marksmanship needs to explain why he obligingly missed the first shot.
9. It was a cheap rifle, which made sense as he had very little money.
10. After he left the Book Store Depository building, he went home by taxi (for the first time in his life), and grabbed his .38 pistol. Hardly the act of a guy on his day off (which he claimed).
11. He shot and killed at point blank range a police officer who confronted him.
12. He hid in a movie theatre and attacked the policemen who eventually arrested him.
13. He tried to assassinate Major General Edwin Walker months before Kennedy.
14. He was seriously unstable and violent from an early age.
Click to expand...


Ok so lets look at the kennedy assasination in a little bit more detail, and hopefully garner a great discussion henceforth

Everyone, of course, accepts that JFK was the victim of bullets fired by someone,its just that nobody completely agrees who fired them and why.For all the years of speculation,almost nothing has ever been universally settled about what happened, and in the process of time, alot of things become muddled and confused.
So lets look at some facts and delve into the questions those facts ask of us.
I dont think there is little doubt that Lee Harvey Oswald, ex marine and one time defector to the Soviet Union was responsible in some way, whether firing one or more of the shots that day or being involved in some sort of plan to execute the President.
What is interesting is some facts that seem to have been lost in the passing of time
Many witnesses say several shots were heard ( six possible impulses are said to have been recorded on a controversial police 'dictabelt' recording ) but at least two other bullets than the killshot are generally agreed to have been fired on the day, but by whom ?
The Warren Commission dismissed any wider conspiracy concluding that Oswald fired three shots, one of which missed, one sliced through Kennedy and Connally and one inflicted the fatal wound to the President's brain.
Contrary to these findings however are the not insubstantial much discussed evidence that shots came from the now legendary grassy knoll. It is interesting to note that when Science and Justice journal, a publication of the British Forensic Science Society, analysed audio recordings of the assasination, they recorded a 96 % certainty that shots had been fired from there, however critics can easily point out that these may have been acoustics.
Another fact that I find interesting centres around the gun itself, the first police officers on the scene unambiguously identified the weapon found as a 7.65 Mauser, but by the time the Warren Commission reported, this had become a 6.5 Italian Mannlicher Carcano, the rifle Oswald had onwned prior to the assasination.
Then there is the magic bullet theory, which i wont go into here,as it would take much too long...
Needless to say, there are indeed many reports of suspicious looking figures hovering in unusual places at the time of the shooting, although certainly some of this could be put down to some sort of retrospective paranoia, it is widley known that Frank Sturgis ( of Watergate fame) claimed that one of the purposes for the Watergate break in was to steal incriminating photos of US agents staioned at dealey plaza that day, whilst reports of three mysterious "tramps", one of which was later said to be one E Howard Hunt, CIA agent and later to serve 33 months in prison over the Watergate scandal, are very well known
Again, interestingly,in 2007 Hunt's son claimed that his father told him he had been part of the JFK assasination whilst on his deathbed.
Also of more interest are statements made by Jack Ruby in a televised interview in 1965

" Everything pertaining to whats happening has never come to the surface.the world will never know the true facts of what occured,my true motives.the people who had so much to gain,and had such an ulterior motive for putting me in the position I'm in, will never let the true facts come above board to the world."
Reporter- " are tghese people in very high positions Jack?"
"yes
I am doomed, I dont want to die, but I am not insane.I was framed to kill Oswald"

Ruby was dead less than 12 months later, officially cancer.
As with other events where answers to awkward questions might be readily available from named witnesses, it should be recorded that an above average number of other key witnesses in connection with the killing of Kennedy appear to have met their demise, in this case 21 people, any researcher can verify this by just searching a little on our friend, the internet
Anyway with the passage of time, all sorts of theories and motives have evolved and re evolved and have confused the issues somewhat, which makes it difficult
again, this could be a fantastic discussion if it doesnt become a big shit fight, no reason it should
 
I was channel surfing the other week, and stumbled across the last little bit of a documentary about all things JFK. The premise of the show was essentially:
Oswald was the lone assassin, but a secret service agent fresh on the job was riding in a nearby support car heard the shots, shit his pants somewhat, grabbed his rifle and fired too early, hitting the president unintentionally.

Apparently all the secret service agents were on the piss the night before, and were too hung-over for their duties. One of the newbies to the group didn’t go out with them, and so was given the task of holding the AR15 rifle (could be wrong about the gun type, but not important to my narrative).

When Oswald started shooting, Secret service newbie mucked up, and unfortunately accidentally shot the president.

The secret service then rallied around their mate, playing funny buggers with the evidence and testimony to (a) stop him from getting exposed as the guy who killed the president (albeit accidentally) and probably more importantly
(b) saving their own asses from getting fired/charged/lynched by a mob for being so irresponsible the night before, and putting the life of the president at risk.

So yes, there was a second shooter, but no, it wasn’t a conspiracy, just a terrible accident.

I have no idea whether its complete baloney, whether it’s been thoroughly debunked or it’s a fresh theory. JFK stories aren’t really my thing.

But it was an entertaining premise.

Anyone heard of this one? Any comments/criticisms?
 
BustedWing said:
I was channel surfing the other week, and stumbled across the last little bit of a documentary about all things JFK. The premise of the show was essentially:
Oswald was the lone assassin, but a secret service agent fresh on the job was riding in a nearby support car heard the shots, shit his pants somewhat, grabbed his rifle and fired too early, hitting the president unintentionally.

Apparently all the secret service agents were on the piss the night before, and were too hung-over for their duties. One of the newbies to the group didn’t go out with them, and so was given the task of holding the AR15 rifle (could be wrong about the gun type, but not important to my narrative).

When Oswald started shooting, Secret service newbie mucked up, and unfortunately accidentally shot the president.

The secret service then rallied around their mate, playing funny buggers with the evidence and testimony to (a) stop him from getting exposed as the guy who killed the president (albeit accidentally) and probably more importantly
(b) saving their own asses from getting fired/charged/lynched by a mob for being so irresponsible the night before, and putting the life of the president at risk.

So yes, there was a second shooter, but no, it wasn’t a conspiracy, just a terrible accident.

I have no idea whether its complete baloney, whether it’s been thoroughly debunked or it’s a fresh theory. JFK stories aren’t really my thing.

But it was an entertaining premise.

Anyone heard of this one? Any comments/criticisms?
Click to expand...
Hahaha ...

It's like something out of a Monty Python sketch or a Peter Sellers movie.

The bungling agent, first day on the job to protect the most powerful man in the world ... but ends up accidentally blowing his head off in spectacular fashion. Shazzam!

Luckily the agent and his colleagues were able to hide this unfortunate incident by pinning the blame on an assassin who just happened to be shooting at the president at the very same moment. Phew!

Honey, make mine a double will ya - you'll never believe the day I've had!

Seriously, I don't get how people keep coming up with these absurd theories and find them to be more credible than the findings of the Warren Commission.

This is the first I've heard of this theory but just from the get go, if it was indeed this bungling agent that fired the fatal head shot, what happened to Oswald's third bullet? We know he fired three shots because there were three spent shells in the snipers nest, as well as witness testimony that backs this up. Yet no other bullet has been found.

Also, why in none of the video footage of the event does there seem to be any response from the secret service agents in the car trailing the president (I am assuming this was the car the unfortunate agent was travelling in). There'd be a noticeable shift in attention as they responded to the rifle firing RIGHT NEXT TO THEM. You'd think if the rookie next to you had just accidentally fired his rifle, the first thing you'd do would be to take the damned thing off him. None of the footage would indicate anything like this.

Still I'd love to hear more on this and what the evidence for it is. It sounds absolutely ludicrous and it would be interesting to see how the known facts in the case are interpreted and presented.

Let's just say though, I'm somewhat sceptical (surprise surprise!)


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