Review Kicking around the corner

[tommyk72]

The goal kicking habits of our small forwards have been talked about a lot. Personally, I hate seeing anyone kick around the corner from more than a 30 degree angle, unless it’s on the wrong side. The inaccuracy has been compounded by several players not making the distance this year.

Someone in another thread mentioned that they wouldn’t do it unless 1/ they were coached to; and 2/ they wouldn’t be coached to unless the statistics were in favour of it.

Does anyone have any insights into league wide stats on this, or any other thoughts/insights on whether this is coached, or whether players are allowed to do what they want? Same is obviously really big on letting the team play with freedom, but surely if this is not based on evidence/statistics, he needs to shut it down.

Thoughts/opinions?

 

[Argy]

Good questions. I'd like to know too.

 

[CHUBBSS]

Bad kicking is bad football…

 

[Dewyyyyy]

Personally I don’t do it, and I know there’s many players who trust their drop punt. But it’s a higher percentage shot, at all levels.

Opens the angle more, more area on the ball to kick where it would be a “sweet spot” whereas drop punts are more “down the seam”.

I still trust my drop punt so back that in, Chol does too, as does someone like Peter Wright or Fogarty who are belters of kicks for goals.

It’s just about realising how far out you are and if you can realistically make the distance not just be accurate. Ginnivan is the one who tends to be better at the long range snaps.

 

[Stard Picket]

Going the Steve J is great when you are in the pockets as you get to widen the goals for free, but when you're in front that's when you should go straight at it.

 

[Blackhawk42]

Personally I don’t do it, and I know there’s many players who trust their drop punt. But it’s a higher percentage shot, at all levels.

Opens the angle more, more area on the ball to kick where it would be a “sweet spot” whereas drop punts are more “down the seam”.

I still trust my drop punt so back that in, Chol does too, as does someone like Peter Wright or Fogarty who are belters of kicks for goals.

It’s just about realising how far out you are and if you can realistically make the distance not just be accurate. Ginnivan is the one who tends to be better at the long range snaps.

I'd love to ask Dylan Moore why he was able to kick a beautiful set shot after taking a hanger near the pocket in gather round, then from an identical distance and angle against GWS attempted to hook it on his non-preferred instead.

All between the ears. The argument will be that the players are free to go with what they feel in the moment.
That's okay to an extent, but sometimes in sport the most simple approach is the correct one. If it's worked before it can work again.

Ginni on Saturday was absurd from the position he was in. Missing by 3 metres from a drop point is still a far better outcome than risking not making the distance which is what happened. I hope he's told that during the week.

 

[Kanga Commando]

Wiz did a perfect drop punt on the run to Moore. Rinse. Repeat.

Not sure he’s the main culprit here for OTC, but his set shot drop punts need work too.

 

[threesixpio]

There is nothing better than seeing steady as you go Chol slot it perfectly between the sticks. Kicking around the corner is awesome in play but it can get farked for set shots with limited exceptions

 

[BobHawk]

Kicking around the corner is a tool when on an acute angle but like kicking the drop punt, it needs to be executed well. The problem with two players, Ginnivan and Watson, is that they are not executing either the drop punt or around the corner kicks for goal. Also, would be a good idea for people to temper the hype about the two given their failings at a fundamental skill which is a key aspect of their roles. Maybe its me but I am seeing so much cultish behaviour all over social media. Its concerning.

 

[Philhawk]

Haha, great thread. Id love to see the conversion rate for attempts/conversions using the banana this year. Eye test - seems extremely low. Ginni’s one from basically straight in front was terrible.

I’m sure it’ll be a topic of discussion over the break.

 

[Stard Picket]

There is nothing better than seeing steady as you go Chol slot it perfectly between the sticks. Kicking around the corner is awesome in play but it can get farked for set shots with limited exceptions

Chol kicked one around the corner too when he was in the pocket.

 

[badgrill]

as long as we're winning...

 

[cama30]

I'd love to ask Dylan Moore why he was able to kick a beautiful set shot after taking a hanger near the pocket in gather round, then from an identical distance and angle against GWS attempted to hook it on his non-preferred instead.

All between the ears. The argument will be that the players are free to go with what they feel in the moment.
That's okay to an extent, but sometimes in sport the most simple approach is the correct one. If it's worked before it can work again.

Ginni on Saturday was absurd from the position he was in. Missing by 3 metres from a drop point is still a far better outcome than risking not making the distance which is what happened. I hope he's told that during the week.

If you watch his day in the life Dylan Moore he actually talks about his & Ginnivan limit on kicking around the body!

 

[HedgeFund]

1. If you’re on less than a 45 degree angle - it should be a drop punt every time

2. Depending on how far out you are, and whether it’s on your non dominant side, around the body snaps can start to make sense outside that scope.

3. if you’re hemmed in the boundary and within 30m then a snap would seem to be a logical choice (particularly if you’re well versed in executing it).

 

[Mr Lizard]

My only query on the hooks is shots after the siren; will Ginny hook from in front after the siren? If not, then why ever do it? (but I also think go with what feels good so I guess I'm ambivalent)

what would Gary Buckenara do? He was lining up a torp...

 

[cryptor]

My only query on the hooks is shots after the siren; will Ginny hook from in front after the siren? If not, then why ever do it? (but I also think go with what feels good so I guess I'm ambivalent)

what would Gary Buckenara do? He was lining up a torp...

Is the rule about how you can run an arc as long as you kick over the mark still a thing?

In theory they could just tell the umpire that's the shot they want to take and then the umpire just needs to make sure when they kick it they're doing it over the mark.

 

[unitedhawk]

Is the rule about how you can run an arc as long as you kick over the mark still a thing?

In theory they could just tell the umpire that's the shot they want to take and then the umpire just needs to make sure when they kick it they're doing it over the mark.

On a similar note, I dare say that if the umps start calling play-on as soon as players, e.g. Wiz, shuffle to the right (or left for left-footers) during set-shots, they'll stop doing that.

Round-the-corner snaps are already play-ons. I see no reason why shuffles that take the player away from the line of the mark shouldn't be called as play-ons immediately.

 

[Mr Lizard]

Is the rule about how you can run an arc as long as you kick over the mark still a thing?

In theory they could just tell the umpire that's the shot they want to take and then the umpire just needs to make sure when they kick it they're doing it over the mark.

I think it is but not sure.

I spose I meant more, if Ginny's preferred shot is the hook from 40 out right in front...will he do that after the siren too? I've seen the after the siren from tight angle I think, where they run to the line of the mark and hook over the man like you're saying, but not the audacious right in front ones (that get threads like this started).

I liked Chol's form with it: maybe two steps, totally unhurried, big fat high hook, good purchase on the ball.

 

[yeahmate]

I'd love to see more torps for goal from around the 30m range. Really roll the dice on accuracy

 

[parsons nose]

A generation from now folks will be reminiscing about the good old days of the 2020’s, except for the kick around the corner where they will reflect ‘what were they thinking’.

 

[The Chad and I]

Any angle wider than 5m from the boundary and it is ridiculous to use the snap shot method.

A proper drop punt technique would give the player so much more accuracy and confidence.
I'm not convinced clubs know how to teach this.

Put your head over the ball.
Kick right through it.
Put witches hats either side and run through.

None of these mean anything, nor do they address the faults in the technique.

Kicking for goal could easily be taught in about 5x30 minute sessions, yet a guy like Watson can go 8 months at a professional club and still nobody pulled him up to fix his obviously flawed set shot technique.

Bizarre.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

Any angle wider than 5m from the boundary and it is ridiculous to use the snap shot method.

A proper drop punt technique would give the player so much more accuracy and confidence.
I'm not convinced clubs know how to teach this.

Put your head over the ball.
Kick right through it.
Put witches hats either side and run through.

None of these mean anything, nor do they address the faults in the technique.

Kicking for goal could easily be taught in about 5x30 minute sessions, yet a guy like Watson can go 8 months at a professional club and still nobody pulled him up to fix his obviously flawed set shot technique.

Bizarre.

He never did the arc inside 40m before, at 18s or VFL and was straight on, not sure what changed.

Although as stated the stats back up snapping the ball even on the 45 as a much more comfortable and efficient kick for lots of footballers. Lots doesn’t mean all and the game is evolving, also doesn’t mean anyone is specifically right or wrong.

Set shot routine is more important than anything, just repetition.

Some players naturally kick better doing certain things, so allow that as long as it’s consistent and repetitive.

 

[The Chad and I]

He never did the arc inside 40m before, at 18s or VFL and was straight on, not sure what changed.

Although as stated the stats back up snapping the ball even on the 45 as a much more comfortable and efficient kick for lots of footballers. Lots doesn’t mean all and the game is evolving, also doesn’t mean anyone is specifically right or wrong.

Set shot routine is more important than anything, just repetition.

Some players naturally kick better doing certain things, so allow that as long as it’s consistent and repetitive.

Repetition of wrong technique will get consistently poor results.
Kicking for goal is a very basic skill that requires a few fundamentals.
Like the basketball free throw, yes, rarely a player can succeed with an unorthodox technique, but the orthodox technique is the best option for 99% of players.

Trouble is, in the AFL, nobody teaches these things.
For example, have you heard anybody explain why a drop punt field kick is a different technique from a drop punt shot at goal?

Ever notice players who have spent time running around further up the ground often miss set shots?
It's not because they are tired. They almost always use a field kicking drop punt technique, instead of adjusting to a goal kicking drop punt technique.

I can see it every time they miss with their ball drop, contact point, follow through and body positioning.

 

[mustang]

as long as we're winning...

Yeah I always feel it’s better to fix things when you winning then losing.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

Repetition of wrong technique will get consistently poor results.
Kicking for goal is a very basic skill that requires a few fundamentals.
Like the basketball free throw, yes, rarely a player can succeed with an unorthodox technique, but the orthodox technique is the best option for 99% of players.

Trouble is, in the AFL, nobody teaches these things.
For example, have you heard anybody explain why a drop punt field kick is a different technique from a drop punt shot at goal?

Ever notice players who have spent time running around further up the ground often miss set shots?
It's not because they are tired. They almost always use a field kicking drop punt technique, instead of adjusting to a goal kicking drop punt technique.

I can see it every time they miss with their ball drop, contact point, follow through and body positioning.

Repetition is key, but the thing you’re implying is some technique or skills are wrong and if done repetitively wrong they will be bad habits. Which is the case on occasion. But technique varies in all sports, from basketball shooting, to cricket bowling, and football kicking. Whatever allows you to be at your most comfortable and efficient which is different per player.

The drop punt for goal is different because you tend to kick through it completely whilst trying to get air so it cannot be touched if it’s low and flat. Although not much different with the fact you need to be comfortable, relaxed and pick a target to hit, with a repetitive routine, again what works for some doesn’t work for others. Some great set shots are average field kicks and some great field kicks are average infront of goal.

And yes, this is the case for all kicks you can notice if they’re not balanced, relaxed, ball drop, if they’re stabbing at it and not kicking through the ball etc.

If you’re teaching someone the sport you teach an orthodox technique, but you wouldn’t tell Buddy to not kick on an arc if he’s more comfortable doing so, wouldn’t tell Bumrah to bowl off a longer run up if he doesn’t need to, or Malinga to not side arm the ball and go straight up and down. Technique varies.

This includes snaps v drop punt and the comfortability and efficiency in areas, it’s not really a skill issue and more so a judgement issue at times (re: distance). Or execution which can also happen with drop punts.