Solved Killer Couples - The Birnies & others

[Kurve]

• Judith and Alvin Neelly. ...
• Karla Homolka and Paul Bernardo. ...
• Raymond Fernandez and Martha Beck. ...
• Jasmine Richardson and Jeremy Steinke. ...
• Charlene and Gerald Gallego. ...
• Myra Hindley and Ian Brady. ...
• Fred and Rosemary West. ..
• David and Catherine Birnie. (Australia)

Most often we read about serial killers whose partner is either completely controlled by them or totally unaware of what their other half is up to. David and Catherine Birnie is what you get when a partner chooses to become a willing participant.

Forensic psychologist Tom Powell "A lot of planning goes into their crimes "through either enactment of fantasies in the privacy of their own home or use of (adult material) that might be on point to what their deviant interests might be," adding, "I think it's rooted in a lot of negative relationship issues. Anger being one of them, power being another .."

AUSTRALIA’S sickest serial killers believed they could pull off the perfect murders.

They read a book and used the plot as a blueprint for the killings they would later commit.

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/r...o/news-story/c2701f916c53d333d32699ea065e0719

 

[Kurve]

Melsy

 

[GreyCrow]

Like the things that happened in SA , when these 2 became known around Australia there was a collective shock that not only were their acts depraved but they had equal sway in the decision and planning.

 

[Kurve]

Like the things that happened in SA , when these 2 became known around Australia there was a collective shock that not only were their acts depraved but they had equal sway in the decision and planning.

Listened to this pod a few weeks ago, it's really interesting not just for her insight as 'the serial killer whisperer' but to hear her chat to David Birnie. Raises questions imo. I think you'll pick it up.

https://www.monsterswhomurder.com/2018/05/12/case-1-david-birnie/

 

[Melsy]

Listened to this pod a few weeks ago, it's really interesting not just for her insight as 'the serial killer whisperer' but to hear her chat to David Birnie. Raises questions imo. I think you'll pick it up.

https://www.monsterswhomurder.com/2018/05/12/case-1-david-birnie/

Catherine stopped all communications with David once they entered prison.

Not sure whether it was because David let the fifth victim go to the toilet who then escaped out toilet window naked running the neighbourhood trying to convince people she had been abducted.

The Birnies were targeting victims, going to their workplace trying to lure them away.
It wasnt all cruising Stirling highway around Claremont looking for hitchhikers.

Daughter Michelle Renwick and a friend described seeing a woman who looked like Catherine Birnie come to the house on several occasions.

She said that police recovered some of her mother's possessions when looking for evidence to prosecute the Birnies.

https://www.smh.com.au/entertainmen...vid-and-catherine-birnie-20170208-gu8o1o.html

 

[Melsy]

The second newly-named potential victim, Barbara Western, was last seen leaving a Perth tavern on June 27, 1986.

Her remains were later found, with the killer having removed her jewellery and other items and placed them beside the body. This was one of the Birnies' trademarks.

In October 1985, Birnie repeatedly harassed Audrey Schofield, the receptionist in a small real estate agency near where the Birnies lived.

"He came back every day for at least a week. He was making suggestions like 'I only like brunettes with brown eyes'," Ms Schofield said. "As soon as I was alone he came in."

https://www.smh.com.au/entertainmen...vid-and-catherine-birnie-20170208-gu8o1o.html

 

[metic]

Catherine stopped all communications with David once they entered prison.

Not sure whether it was because David let the fifth victim go to the toilet who then escaped out toilet window naked running the neighbourhood trying to convince people she had been abducted.

The Birnies were targeting victims, going to their workplace trying to lure them away.
It wasnt all cruising Stirling highway around Claremont looking for hitchhikers.

Daughter Michelle Renwick and a friend described seeing a woman who looked like Catherine Birnie come to the house on several occasions.

She said that police recovered some of her mother's possessions when looking for evidence to prosecute the Birnies.

https://www.smh.com.au/entertainmen...vid-and-catherine-birnie-20170208-gu8o1o.html

"Not sure whether it was because David let the fifth victim go to the toilet who then escaped out toilet window naked running the neighbourhood trying to convince people she had been abducted."

The drug dealer knocked on the door?

 

[Kurve]

"Not sure whether it was because David let the fifth victim go to the toilet who then escaped out toilet window naked running the neighbourhood trying to convince people she had been abducted."

The drug dealer knocked on the door?

Yep, Kate got out the bedroom window when Catherine was distracted by dealer at the door and ran. She was wearing tights, her and Catherine had been in the backyard just prior.

 

[Kurve]

Catherine stopped all communications with David once they entered prison.

Do you have a link for this assertion because it's my understanding that Catherine and David remained close until she decided to cut off all communication and stop writing, some years later. It was suggested she was switching gear in preparation for parole. David killed himself.

 

[one eyed spy]

Listened to this pod a few weeks ago, it's really interesting not just for her insight as 'the serial killer whisperer' but to hear her chat to David Birnie. Raises questions imo. I think you'll pick it up.

https://www.monsterswhomurder.com/2018/05/12/case-1-david-birnie/

Another thing I havent gotten around to doing yet, this.
Ive read mixed reports about their contact. Some articles have said he was upset about being found out that she was recording their conversations and he was banned from speaking to her. Increasing his agitation of having his computer removed and contributing to his suicide. But Ive read this woman say she spoke to him earlier in the day & he died that night. Is that clarified in the podcast?

 

[one eyed spy]

Catherine stopped all communications with David once they entered prison. Not sure whether it was because David let the fifth victim go to the toilet who then escaped out toilet window naked running the neighbourhood trying to convince people she had been abducted.
The Birnies were targeting victims, going to their workplace trying to lure them away.
It wasnt all cruising Stirling highway around Claremont looking for hitchhikers.
Daughter Michelle Renwick and a friend described seeing a woman who looked like Catherine Birnie come to the house on several occasions. She said that police recovered some of her mother's possessions when looking for evidence to prosecute the Birnies.

Other way round Melsy, it was Catherine who unchained her and she escaped.

Jewellery left at the scene being a trade mark of David's is something I've read before but Im unsure of. As far as I know, theres been no other charges for murder, rape or assaults against women independent from those he & Catherine were charged with, so Im curious how these claims attached to him specifically have come about. Does anyone know where it originated and why?

I find it strange too, that he's suspected of having involvement in Lisa Mott's murder in 1980 after she was seen getting into a yellow panel van which he reportedly had access to & was living near Collie at the time. Yet Ive not heard any whisper of suspicions of involvement with Annette Deverall who was killed about 6 weeks prior to Mott in Mandurah amidst claims she was also seen in a panel van the night she disappeared.

Theres also been other murders correlating much more closely in timing, location & injuries with references to jewellery & fire which indicate could easily be connected to the same person, yet no whisper of Birnies name either afaik. Kerryn Tate (Dec79) was identified by jewellery found at the scene & suffered injuries almost identical to Annette Deverall. Fractured skull and burnt remains. We know he struck 1 of his later 1986 victims in the head with an axe too after reportedly sitting up whilst in the grave, so why hasnt there been speculation he could have killed these women as well in a separate rampage 6-7 years earlier? Pauline Walter is another possibility too.

I know suspicions they were both involved with Renwick is in the timing of the 4 charged murders, 1 of their cars being disposed of similar to Renwicks & the claims that someone resembling Catherine had seen at her house being corroborated by a friend & one of her daughters. I'm not sure of any other reason to connect them to Western though beside the timing and the fact she was known to hitchhike.
Again, why not Tate? She was a hitchhiker too & had left home with the express intention of hitching quite a distance to where she was house sitting which was close to where she was found.
The Birnies may have approached 4 of their 5 known victims on the street and offered them a lift, but Candy was the only one known to be hitch hiking.

It just seems strange to overlook obvious more specific similarities between murders which clearly appear might be connected to the same person, whilst picking and choosing only some of these aspects in other murders they've attached his name to. Particularly when the speculation is to murders sharing far fewer similarities than others have with the 4 murders he actually confessed to. It makes no sense to me.

After all that, I know hes had quite a few stints in jail so he may be eliminated due to that, but I doubt it. I had stuff relating to early jail time saved, possibly from murderpedia but can anyone confirm definitive dates he was inside or have any differing info?

"In 1969 both Catherine and David were charged with eleven counts of theft, breaking and entering. David was sentenced to a three year imprisonment, whereas Catherine got off quite lightly with four years of probation. After being released from prison David and Catherine were reunited, for only two short weeks, before they were imprisoned once again, David for two and a half years, and Catherine for only six months."

 

[Kurve]

Another thing I havent gotten around to doing yet, this.
Ive read mixed reports about their contact. Some articles have said he was upset about being found out that she was recording their conversations and he was banned from speaking to her. Increasing his agitation of having his computer removed and contributing to his suicide. But Ive read this woman say she spoke to him earlier in the day & he died that night. Is that clarified in the podcast?

Can't remember exactly the timing but it was pretty close I think, she discusses that in this pod. They had formed some kind of bond imo which was interesting but also a bit unsettling.

 

[one eyed spy]

Do you have a link for this assertion because it's my understanding that Catherine and David remained close until she decided to cut off all communication and stop writing, some years later. It was suggested she was switching gear in preparation for parole. David killed himself.

Agree Shelley, this isnt what I believe either. I have a few links that state otherwise despite there always being some conflicting facts out there, this isnt one of them.
This says 2600 letters in 4 yrs & refused permission to marry in jail.
https://crimenet.net/index.php?tp=notorious&id=460

 

[metic]

http://www.australianmissingpersonsregister.com/Mott.htm

"12-year-old Lisa was last seen speaking to a person in a yellow panel van in Forrest Street after a basketball game at about 8.30pm on October 30."

 

[Melsy]

Other way round Melsy, it was Catherine who unchained her and she escaped.

Jewellery left at the scene being a trade mark of David's is something I've read before but Im unsure of. As far as I know, theres been no other charges for murder, rape or assaults against women independent from those he & Catherine were charged with, so Im curious how these claims attached to him specifically have come about. Does anyone know where it originated and why?

I find it strange too, that he's suspected of having involvement in Lisa Mott's murder in 1980 after she was seen getting into a yellow panel van which he reportedly had access to & was living near Collie at the time. Yet Ive not heard any whisper of suspicions of involvement with Annette Deverall who was killed about 6 weeks prior to Mott in Mandurah amidst claims she was also seen in a panel van the night she disappeared.

Theres also been other murders correlating much more closely in timing, location & injuries with references to jewellery & fire which indicate could easily be connected to the same person, yet no whisper of Birnies name either afaik. Kerryn Tate (Dec79) was identified by jewellery found at the scene & suffered injuries almost identical to Annette Deverall. Fractured skull and burnt remains. We know he struck 1 of his later 1986 victims in the head with an axe too after reportedly sitting up whilst in the grave, so why hasnt there been speculation he could have killed these women as well in a separate rampage 6-7 years earlier? Pauline Walter is another possibility too.

I know suspicions they were both involved with Renwick is in the timing of the 4 charged murders, 1 of their cars being disposed of similar to Renwicks & the claims that someone resembling Catherine had seen at her house being corroborated by a friend & one of her daughters. I'm not sure of any other reason to connect them to Western though beside the timing and the fact she was known to hitchhike.
Again, why not Tate? She was a hitchhiker too & had left home with the express intention of hitching quite a distance to where she was house sitting which was close to where she was found.
The Birnies may have approached 4 of their 5 known victims on the street and offered them a lift, but Candy was the only one known to be hitch hiking.

It just seems strange to overlook obvious more specific similarities between murders which clearly appear might be connected to the same person, whilst picking and choosing only some of these aspects in other murders they've attached his name to. Particularly when the speculation is to murders sharing far fewer similarities than others have with the 4 murders he actually confessed to. It makes no sense to me.

After all that, I know hes had quite a few stints in jail so he may be eliminated due to that, but I doubt it. I had stuff relating to early jail time saved, possibly from murderpedia but can anyone confirm definitive dates he was inside or have any differing info?

"In 1969 both Catherine and David were charged with eleven counts of theft, breaking and entering. David was sentenced to a three year imprisonment, whereas Catherine got off quite lightly with four years of probation. After being released from prison David and Catherine were reunited, for only two short weeks, before they were imprisoned once again, David for two and a half years, and Catherine for only six months."

I was told that the victim convinced David to let her go to the toilet while Catherine was up to other things.

Ill find the article about Catherine ceasing communications with David once they were in prison.

While incarcerated, the Birnies exchanged more than 2,600 letters, but were not allowed any other form of contact.[18]

David Birnie was found dead in his cell at Casuarina Prison on 7 October 2005 at 4:30am (WST).[19] He was 54-years-old. An inquest found that he had hanged himself from an air vent using a length of cord.[5]Various factors led to his suicide; a failure to provide him with his anti-depressants had exacerbated his depression, his computer had been confiscated and he was suspected of sexually assaulting another prisoner.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_and_Catherine_Birnie

Wikipedia edit on bias and inaccuracies
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:David_and_Catherine_Birnie

 

[Melsy]

http://www.australianmissingpersonsregister.com/Mott.htm

"12-year-old Lisa was last seen speaking to a person in a yellow panel van in Forrest Street after a basketball game at about 8.30pm on October 30."

Forrest st, Collie.
As opposed the Forrest st opposite where Cutlers car discovered.

 

[Melsy]

1993 she stopped answering him. Inquest.

The court has also been told that Birnie was writing to his co-offender, Catherine Birnie, until five months before he committed suicide.

The Superintendent for Casuarina, Robert Jennings, testified that Birnie regularly wrote to Catherine Birnie who is in Bandyup prison.

The inquest was told that Catherine Birnie ended contact with David Birnie in 1993 and that his letters were not reciprocated.

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2007-12-18/coroner-told-birnie-depressed-in-days-before/991766

 

[Melsy]

“David was the puppet, Catherine was the puppeteer.

https://www.news.com.au/entertainment/tv/are-you-going-to-rape-me-or-kill-me/news-story/9304099ceb7f9966e7fecbd3999e1173

 

[Melsy]

So Kate had gone from couch to master bedroom?

When David Birnie went to work, Ms Moir says, she changed her odds of surviving to “50/50” — she just had to get away from Catherine, try to befriend her, get her to drop her guard.

A knock on the front door distracted her captor, who forgot to secure her victim, and Ms Moir saw her only chance.

“The (bedroom) window must have been locked. I got the courage to break the lock and push it open,” she says.

She fell out the window onto the driveway, struggled up, bolted across the road to the nearest house. She tried three doors with nobody home, and got attacked by a dog before, hysterical, barefoot, wearing only black leggings and a singlet, she saw a store opposite.

She ran to the man standing outside it.

“I said ‘Help I’ve been r*ped. Please take me inside and call the police’,” Ms Moir says.

“If a woman comes here and says I’ve had a fight with her and I’m her daughter, don’t believe her. I’ve been r*ped.”

He sped with her to the local police station.

https://www.news.com.au/entertainme...e/news-story/9304099ceb7f9966e7fecbd3999e1173

 

[metic]

I was told that the victim convinced David to let her go to the toilet while Catherine was up to other things.

Ill find the article about Catherine ceasing communications with David once they were in prison.

While incarcerated, the Birnies exchanged more than 2,600 letters, but were not allowed any other form of contact.[18]

David Birnie was found dead in his cell at Casuarina Prison on 7 October 2005 at 4:30am (WST).[19] He was 54-years-old. An inquest found that he had hanged himself from an air vent using a length of cord.[5]Various factors led to his suicide; a failure to provide him with his anti-depressants had exacerbated his depression, his computer had been confiscated and he was suspected of sexually assaulting another prisoner.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_and_Catherine_Birnie

Wikipedia edit on bias and inaccuracies
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:David_and_Catherine_Birnie

So Kate had gone from couch to master bedroom?

When David Birnie went to work, Ms Moir says, she changed her odds of surviving to “50/50” — she just had to get away from Catherine, try to befriend her, get her to drop her guard.

A knock on the front door distracted her captor, who forgot to secure her victim, and Ms Moir saw her only chance.

“The (bedroom) window must have been locked. I got the courage to break the lock and push it open,” she says.

She fell out the window onto the driveway, struggled up, bolted across the road to the nearest house. She tried three doors with nobody home, and got attacked by a dog before, hysterical, barefoot, wearing only black leggings and a singlet, she saw a store opposite.

She ran to the man standing outside it.

“I said ‘Help I’ve been r*ped. Please take me inside and call the police’,” Ms Moir says.

“If a woman comes here and says I’ve had a fight with her and I’m her daughter, don’t believe her. I’ve been r*ped.”

He sped with her to the local police station.

https://www.news.com.au/entertainme...e/news-story/9304099ceb7f9966e7fecbd3999e1173

Wonder why you were told differently to the truthful story ? Check the facts before posting instead of afterwards...

 

[Kurve]

“David was the puppet, Catherine was the puppeteer.

https://www.news.com.au/entertainment/tv/are-you-going-to-rape-me-or-kill-me/news-story/9304099ceb7f9966e7fecbd3999e1173

Initially I dont think this was the case, same with Fred and Rose West, Karla Homolka and Bernardi, Hindley and Brady.

Just a suspicion, I suspect in these relationships that begin with the woman being almost subordinate and by all accounts just so in love they were willing to do anything their partner asked of them, there is a power shift at some point. The woman starts calling the shots, equals or bests him in cruelty and he might actually become frightened of her. Maybe this is how she survives when others do not.

 

[Kurve]

Catherine stopped all communications with David once they entered prison.

Please do your best to fact check before you post. While we all make mistakes, your posting misinformation easily checked over the last couple of days here and in other threads is beginning to look like a pattern of behaviour.

When posters feel compelled to continually correct misinformation it disrupts the flow of the thread, becomes tiresome and people disengage.

 

[Melsy]

Apart from posts disappearing to suit community leader, it appears someone has messed with the Birnie Wikipedia.
Evident with search engine cache conflicting with page results.
The may be some of the reason for descrepancies.
It wasn't Catherines drug dealer.
Catherine was selling dope.

After David had gone to work, Catherine went to the door to carry out a drug deal, and forgot to ...

 

[GreyCrow]

Apart from posts disappearing to suit community leader,...

That is completely wrong and you should apologise.

They are removed to protect the BF site

 

[Kurve]

Apart from posts disappearing to suit community leader

hey are removed to protect the BF site

That's right thank you GreyCrow. A thread littered with misinformation stated as fact also risks the thread's integrity and fosters mistrust.