Legalising heroin...

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dr nick

dr nick

Brownlow Medallist
Veteran 10k Posts
May 22, 2002
13,353
28
Dee Why, NSW
AFL Club
Sydney
what are your thoughts on legalising heroin? i was posed this question today and it makes you think. Some issues that might be raised involve:

- safe injecting rooms (no transmission of blood borne viruses)
- no crime associated with paying the street price to maintain your addictive habit
- take away business from dealers
- clean batches
- controlled doses (no risk of OD's)
- legalising would get more people using
- more people get addicted
- more people suffer withdrawal trying to get off.

Heroin is a safer drug than nicotine after all.
 
having had two cousins who have needed rehab in the past few years, it is definetaly an issue you think off.

I don't think a major sweeping legalisation of the drug would help. But, there is definetaly a thought that it may help to allow people to use it within registered injection rooms, all run by the government.

But, just like prostitution (at least in NSW), buying it off the street would still have to be illegal.

And there would have to be a way of not allowing new users to come to these rooms......

It is something that would spark debate, and there are rational reasonsings to either side of the debate.
 
not allowing new people into the rooms would only partially alleviate the crime/infections that come about due to the current situation IMO.

It doesnt have to be illegal on the streets. Injecting rooms, if it is safer and most notably cheaper than the current $50 - $150 a hit or something obscene then street trade wouldnt exist.

BTW: those two cousins of yours were probably given methadone, which is only a slight variant of heroin anyway, only legal and properly supervised/administered, and cheap (read free)

I also had an uncle die from an overdose, which certainly would not happen in these types of rooms.
 

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no i dont think it would be good. cant u get new syringes for free from health places anyway?

anyway if they were gonna spend any more money on heroin they should use it for rehab, not encouraging ppl to continue using.
 
Originally posted by nicko18
even if it was legal on the street, who's gonna buy it there if its legal in the injecting rooms?
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I agree with that, but it wouldn't suprise me if people still did.

A big possiblity is that the people running the street trade would make the drug a lot stronger, trying to entice people to get an even bigger kick or hit or whatever it is.

anyway if they were gonna spend any more money on heroin they should use it for rehab, not encouraging ppl to continue using.
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Any form of rooms would have to have some sort of rehabilition centre there as well.

People aren't going to get off drugs by just staying on the street and continuing to use it. If anything, they'd step up they're addiction.

But if they were in a proper environment, they would be able to talk to people, whilst at the same time the strength of their hit could be lowered and lowered till it was very low.
 
Originally posted by evade28
no i dont think it would be good. cant u get new syringes for free from health places anyway?

anyway if they were gonna spend any more money on heroin they should use it for rehab, not encouraging ppl to continue using.
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Heroin costs maybe $2 to make 10mg of it charging $10 a pop should cover costs adequately.
 
Originally posted by nicko18
- no crime associated with paying the street price to maintain your addictive habit
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I'd assume you're saying that the govt could supply free H?There's some major problems with that:

1. Huge costs
2. Like you said, H is not as bad for you as nicotine. The bad thing about heroin is the crime. Take that element as well as the cost away and you will have a lot more people trying and using heroin.

Injecting rooms yes, legalised heroin no.
 
Re: Re: Legalising heroin...

Originally posted by bunsen burner
Injecting rooms yes, legalised heroin no.
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I think that pretty much sums up what i was trying to say.

I definetaly think it could benefit people to have a safe place to inject. They would also than be able to get access to talk to counsellers and have the strength of their hits monitored.

But as i say, you have to be very diplomatic about it.

You can't just have an open invitation for people to come in and start shooting up.
 
Originally posted by Black Thunder
I agree with that, but it wouldn't suprise me if people still did.
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have to disagree, they dont buy tobacco off the street.

Originally posted by Black Thunder
A big possiblity is that the people running the street trade would make the drug a lot stronger, trying to entice people to get an even bigger kick or hit or whatever it is..
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whilst they might be stupid, they are not dumb. A stronger dose will kill them.


Originally posted by Black Thunder
Any form of rooms would have to have some sort of rehabilition centre there as well.
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one of the reasons the methadone program is sucessful

Originally posted by Black Thunder
People aren't going to get off drugs by just staying on the street and continuing to use it. If anything, they'd step up they're addiction..
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agree, one of the cons, but no different to the high prevalence of tobacco use

Originally posted by Black Thunder
But if they were in a proper environment, they would be able to talk to people, whilst at the same time the strength of their hit could be lowered and lowered till it was very low.
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If they want to stop.... but one has to consider that to prevent the harmful street trade, then they can get the high they want at safe levels. Nothing harmul about heroin in sensible quantities, and if anything its a lot better pain reliever than the morphine they use in hospitals (without the side effects mind you!)
 
Originally posted by nicko18
Heroin costs maybe $2 to make 10mg of it charging $10 a pop should cover costs adequately.
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As soon as you put a price on it there will be:

a) competition therefore retaining illegal dealers, and
b) crime will be maintained because junkies have to pay for it
 
Re: Re: Legalising heroin...

Originally posted by bunsen burner
I'd assume you're saying that the govt could supply free H?There's some major problems with that:

1. Huge costs
2. Like you said, H is not as bad for you as nicotine. The bad thing about heroin is the crime. Take that element as well as the cost away and you will have a lot more people trying and using heroin.

Injecting rooms yes, legalised heroin no.
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not what i'm saying, make the price say a packet of cigs. The high price comes about with the increased risks for the dealer and the scarcity, then there is the issue of purity.
 
Originally posted by bunsen burner
As soon as you put a price on it there will be:

a) competition therefore retaining illegal dealers, and
b) crime will be maintained because junkies have to pay for it
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but, will illegal dealers be willing to take such risks for an $8 profit, also, will people choose the street drug when there are clinics selling the pure stuff for $10?

and yeah, junkies have to pay, but even a very poor paying job could cover the costs. It's not like they'll pay $150 a day anymore.
 
Originally posted by nicko18
Heroin costs maybe $2 to make 10mg of it charging $10 a pop should cover costs adequately.
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imagine how many more ppl would get hooked if it was that cheap. of course they wouldnt just 'serve' anyone who walked in, but if its cheap in the rooms it would also be cheap on the street.


youve gotta wonder about ppl on heroin though, like you can say 'oh poor them theyre hooked rararar' but really, wtf would you wanna try it in the first place for? they werent hooked before they started. ppl know the dangers of what it does but try it anyway, and i guess they have to live or die with the consequences.
 

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Originally posted by nicko18
have to disagree, they dont buy tobacco off the street.
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Why? because there is no money in tobacco. It is bulky to import, bulky to conceal when dealing, and a small profit margin. If the Govt charge for heroin, there will be competition. Guaranteed.

whilst they might be stupid, they are not dumb. A stronger dose will kill them.
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It's more likely they are stupid.

Back in circa 1995 the Sydney heroin trade was run by the Turks and mainly centred in Kings X. The Vietnamese stole more than half their market by a) selling stronger heroin, and b) centering the trade around cabramatta which is much accessible and much closer to the geographic centre of greater Sydney.

one of the reasons the methadone program is sucessful
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Simply not true.

Are you aware that most junkies who go to methadome clinics have no intention of getting off H? They go there so they can supplement their addiction with a free substitute.
 
Re: Re: Legalising heroin...

Originally posted by jerry springer
thats the stupidest thing ive ever heard in my life.you have obviously never seen a pregnant junkie screaming for her hit in a emergency ward
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And i dare say you havent seen a nicotine addict coughing up blood from his cancer-filled lungs with concurrent congestive heart failure
 
Originally posted by bunsen burner
Simply not true.

Are you aware that most junkies who go to methadome clinics have no intention of getting off H? They go there so they can supplement their addiction with a free substitute.
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i am very aware of what goes on in methadone clinics BB. Where do you get your info from? The vast majority go to get weaned off. They are given high enough doses to stop the cravings. Sometimes they do go and get heroin, meaning the methadone dose needs to be upped.
 
Originally posted by nicko18
but, will illegal dealers be willing to take such risks for an $8 profit, also, will people choose the street drug when there are clinics selling the pure stuff for $10?
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400% profit with a totally inelastic demand? ***** yes!


and yeah, junkies have to pay, but even a very poor paying job could cover the costs. It's not like they'll pay $150 a day anymore.
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Junkies aren't suitable for work when they're heavily addicted. It's impossible - unless employers are willing to give them breaks to have a fix and then not mind if they're on the nod for 20 mins or so. And that's not to mention whether employers would accept a drug addicted employee - or whether health and safety standards would allow it.
 
Originally posted by bunsen burner
400% profit with a totally inelastic demand? ***** yes!

Junkies aren't suitable for work when they're heavily addicted. It's impossible - unless employers are willing to give them breaks to have a fix and then not mind if they're on the nod for 20 mins or so. And that's not to mention whether employers would accept a drug addicted employee - or whether health and safety standards would allow it.
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1) the customers would buy from the rooms. Would you, for example, or anybody else you know, try a street dealer not knowing whats in it for a similar price? Hard to get a black market going with $10 hits. And why are there street dealers for marajuana but not tobacco? At any rate, far far less demand from the street.

2) No, they are not suitable for work, agree. But $10 hits are far less a problem crimewise than $100+ and its easier to come off under supervision than self administrating doses.
 
It can destroy/damage the unborn childs neurogenic system causing the child to be born "addicted" to the smack.Also cause oxygen defiencies later on in life.

I believe kids should be given a chance in life,not to brought into the world under that sh.it


here is a link if you are really interested.

http://www.unodc.org/unodc/en/bulletin/bulletin_1985-01-01_2_page019.html
 
Originally posted by jerry springer
It can destroy/damage the unborn childs neurogenic system causing the child to be born "addicted" to the smack.Also cause oxygen defiencies later on in life.

I believe kids should be given a chance in life,not to brought into the world under that sh.it


here is a link if you are really interested.

http://www.unodc.org/unodc/en/bulletin/bulletin_1985-01-01_2_page019.html
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too true, pregnant women obviously should be excluded, but when that does occur, the baby has to remain at the hospital being weaned off. Under a supervised program at least these types of levels that leave babies addicted can be avoided.

Also half that article talks about the bacterial and viral risks... which are relieved under a supervised program.
 
Originally posted by nicko18
i am very aware of what goes on in methadone clinics BB. Where do you get your info from?
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Where do you get yours from?

The vast majority go to get weaned off.
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Bullsh*t.


They are given high enough doses to stop the cravings.
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True, but irrelevent. Are you also aware that some get their methadome and then sell it?

Sometimes they do go and get heroin,
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A large percentage of them. Some might be trying to quit and can't resist, but most know before they even apply to get on methadone that they have no intention of kicking the habit.


Are you also aware that methadone is also addictive? People who do actually give up end up being addicted to methadone. The only difference is they get it for free and no long have to do crime to pay for their habit. Sort of similar to your whole point about making H legal.
 

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