Toast Longevity of veterans

[Ugene41]

Having spent the weekend rewatching all the footage and interviews with players, one thing Pendles said about McRae coming in as a new coach and saying he really wants Pendles and Sidey to stick around really stuck out. It would have been so easy for McRae/Wright to come in, after finishing second last and try do a clean sweep and rebuild and push out our veterans.

Instead the one thing I love about our current administration is our ability to extend the longevity of our veterans. The fact that we have guys like Pendles, Sidey, Howe, Cox still going strong well into their 30s is such a refreshing change than the previous era when our champions were all cooked and retired at max 30-32 yo for a variety of reasons (ie Swan 32, Cloke 30, Ball 30, Maxwell 31, Reid 31, Beams 30.)

Winning a premiership with a "young average age profile" is so overrated and is no guarantee of a dynasty. We saw in 2010, as the youngest list to win a premiership that it didn't mean anything. Similarly with Baby Bombers 1993, Bulldogs 2016, Melbourne 2021 etc.

To have our prime 26 year olds in 2010 retiring around 30 just meant they only had 4 more years of contending. Compared to now where if we can raise our veteran age for our champions to ~34, our 30 year olds still have another 4-5 years to contribute and can make balancing a list profile in the current era of compromised drafts so much easier. We can have our 30+ year olds providing that matching winning leadership/situational contributions (ie Pendles last quarter, Sidey matchwinning goal, Howe cover for Murphy), our 25-30 year olds in their prime driving the engine room (ie Crisp, JDG, Maynard, Moore) and our early 20s players driving continual improvement within the group (ie Naicos, Hill, Quaynor, McCreery etc).

Really excited about the future and not at all phased by our age profile of 30+ year olds. I'd be more concerned if we shipped them all off like Hawks/North/Carlton/old Melb did and have to spend years as bottom 4 with no leadership to build a winning culture.

 

[barrackers]

Having spent the weekend rewatching all the footage and interviews with players, one thing Pendles said about McRae coming in as a new coach and saying he really wants Pendles and Sidey to stick around really stuck out. It would have been so easy for McRae/Wright to come in, after finishing second last and try do a clean sweep and rebuild and push out our veterans.

Instead the one thing I love about our current administration is our ability to extend the longevity of our veterans. The fact that we have guys like Pendles, Sidey, Howe, Cox still going strong well into their 30s is such a refreshing change than the previous era when our champions were all cooked and retired at max 30-32 yo for a variety of reasons (ie Swan 32, Cloke 30, Ball 30, Maxwell 31, Reid 31, Beams 30.)

Winning a premiership with a "young average age profile" is so overrated and is no guarantee of a dynasty. We saw in 2010, as the youngest list to win a premiership that it didn't mean anything. Similarly with Baby Bombers 1993, Bulldogs 2016, Melbourne 2021 etc.

To have our prime 26 year olds in 2010 retiring around 30 just meant they only had 4 more years of contending. Compared to now where if we can raise our veteran age for our champions to ~34, our 30 year olds still have another 4-5 years to contribute and can make balancing a list profile in the current era of compromised drafts so much easier. We can have our 30+ year olds providing that matching winning leadership/situational contributions (ie Pendles last quarter, Sidey matchwinning goal, Howe cover for Murphy), our 25-30 year olds in their prime driving the engine room (ie Crisp, JDG, Maynard, Moore) and our early 20s players driving continual improvement within the group (ie Naicos, Hill, Quaynor, McCreery etc).

Really excited about the future and not at all phased by our age profile of 30+ year olds. I'd be more concerned if we shipped them all off like Hawks/North/Carlton/old Melb did and have to spend years as bottom 4 with no leadership to build a winning culture.

Good pick up, compare 2010 with Hawthorn & Geelong from the same era who’s veterans continued well into their 30s. To put it into perspective Cloke is only 1 year older than Hawkins, but has been retired for 6 seasons.

 

[Ugene41]

Good pick up, compare 2010 with Hawthorn & Geelong from the same era who’s veterans continued well into their 30s. To put it into perspective Cloke is only 1 year older than Hawkins, but has been retired for 6 seasons.

Exactly. And the issue with Cloke was mental rather than any physical decline. I feel like with the current administration and their support for making mistakes, he could've rebounded.

Imagine having a Cloke/Mihocek/Cox combo over last few years.

 

[Scritchyscroony]

All our veterans look like they have another 2 years in them to me. I really hope non of them retire. They are pivotal to our chances of flagging again with this group. Elliot is the only one whose form I'd call into question over the back half of the season.
Lucky we have the best fitness and conditioning guy in the comp to nurse them through.
If we manage them throughout the h&a games then we can still get games into the likes of Reef, Fin, Ed, Ryan, Harrison. I'd like to see us do that next year.
One things for sure, we will have some serious cap space to play with once they do start retiring.

 

[nahnah]

Having a super young team is selling false hope and promise, laugh whenever fans on main board compare age especially when their teams are garbage.

 

[Dundalis]

Having spent the weekend rewatching all the footage and interviews with players, one thing Pendles said about McRae coming in as a new coach and saying he really wants Pendles and Sidey to stick around really stuck out. It would have been so easy for McRae/Wright to come in, after finishing second last and try do a clean sweep and rebuild and push out our veterans.

Instead the one thing I love about our current administration is our ability to extend the longevity of our veterans. The fact that we have guys like Pendles, Sidey, Howe, Cox still going strong well into their 30s is such a refreshing change than the previous era when our champions were all cooked and retired at max 30-32 yo for a variety of reasons (ie Swan 32, Cloke 30, Ball 30, Maxwell 31, Reid 31, Beams 30.)

Winning a premiership with a "young average age profile" is so overrated and is no guarantee of a dynasty. We saw in 2010, as the youngest list to win a premiership that it didn't mean anything. Similarly with Baby Bombers 1993, Bulldogs 2016, Melbourne 2021 etc.

To have our prime 26 year olds in 2010 retiring around 30 just meant they only had 4 more years of contending. Compared to now where if we can raise our veteran age for our champions to ~34, our 30 year olds still have another 4-5 years to contribute and can make balancing a list profile in the current era of compromised drafts so much easier. We can have our 30+ year olds providing that matching winning leadership/situational contributions (ie Pendles last quarter, Sidey matchwinning goal, Howe cover for Murphy), our 25-30 year olds in their prime driving the engine room (ie Crisp, JDG, Maynard, Moore) and our early 20s players driving continual improvement within the group (ie Naicos, Hill, Quaynor, McCreery etc).

Really excited about the future and not at all phased by our age profile of 30+ year olds. I'd be more concerned if we shipped them all off like Hawks/North/Carlton/old Melb did and have to spend years as bottom 4 with no leadership to build a winning culture.

IMO a lot of this has little to do with coaching (I realise having faith and managing older players well is important), but I think 90% of it is the simple genetics and game style of the footballer. I think most players given the physical nature of the game, are simply not capable of maintaining anything close to peak performance for very long after 30, no matter what a coaching staff does for them. Both Pendlebury and Sidebottom were two players if you asked me when they were in their early 20's, it would not have surprised me to be told they would play until their mid 30's because stylistically they always looked like the type of players who could have longevity in the game.

Basically I think it's easier said than done to simply say the right way to go about it is to allow veterans to have longevity and carry on, when the fact is no matter what you do, most players performances will drop off a cliff relatively shortly into their 30's, either that or injuries will wreck them. We are in a fortunate situations with some of these vet players (As an example, I genuinely think as important as Mitchell has been, he's someone who looks like he could fall off the wagon pretty quick at some point short to medium term, and I don't expect the coaching staff to just keep playing him if that happens).

 

[Maggie5]

All our veterans look like they have another 2 years in them to me. I really hope non of them retire. They are pivotal to our chances of flagging again with this group. Elliot is the only one whose form I'd call into question over the back half of the season.
Lucky we have the best fitness and conditioning guy in the comp to nurse them through.
If we manage them throughout the h&a games then we can still get games into the likes of Reef, Fin, Ed, Ryan, Harrison. I'd like to see us do that next year.
One things for sure, we will have some serious cap space to play with once they do start retiring.

I was there and have watched the replay twice now and I think that Elliott's game has been underrated.

He took 7 marks and 4 tackles, seemed to me to have a role playing further up the ground.

Could have also had a couple of goals which for him should have been easy.

One other player that maybe viewed as a 'veteran', Mitchell had 13 tackles. Just wow!

 

[Piesinmyeyes]

Sidey can just be the sub in next years gf.
I can deal with that .

 

[Ugene41]

IMO a lot of this has little to do with coaching (I realise having faith and managing older players well is important), but I think 90% of it is the simple genetics and game style of the footballer. I think most players given the physical nature of the game, are simply not capable of maintaining anything close to peak performance for very long after 30, no matter what a coaching staff does for them. Both Pendlebury and Sidebottom were two players if you asked me when they were in their early 20's, it would not have surprised me to be told they would play until their mid 30's because stylistically they always looked like the type of players who could have longevity in the game.

Basically I think it's easier said than done to simply say the right way to go about it is to allow veterans to have longevity and carry on, when the fact is no matter what you do, most players performances will drop off a cliff relatively shortly into their 30's, either that or injuries will wreck them. We are in a fortunate situations with some of these vet players (As an example, I genuinely think as important as Mitchell has been, he's someone who looks like he could fall off the wagon pretty quick at some point short to medium term, and I don't expect the coaching staff to just keep playing him if that happens).

Of course. When I say current administration, I do also mean our fitness staff as injury management is a key part of that and reducing the number of soft tissue injuries maybe could've helped someone like a Reid and hopefully Moore in the future.

But another part is also just the attitude around the importance of veterans and leadership. I don't believe in the Hawthorn model of shipping out their old premiership players in their last years like Hodge, S Mitchell, Smith, Lewis, Gunston, T Mitchell etc. You saw how much impact their leadership gave their new clubs ie Brisbane, WC, Melbourne, Collingwood, dragging some of these clubs out from long periods of rebuild back into the finals with their winning culture leadership.

On the flip side, it means there's massive value in signing up some of these 30 year old champions who have the potential to play another 2-4 years till they're 34/35 for very little cost. Someone like a 31 year old Isaac Smith basically won Geelong a premiership last year.

 

[domin8tors]

Having spent the weekend rewatching all the footage and interviews with players, one thing Pendles said about McRae coming in as a new coach and saying he really wants Pendles and Sidey to stick around really stuck out. It would have been so easy for McRae/Wright to come in, after finishing second last and try do a clean sweep and rebuild and push out our veterans.

Instead the one thing I love about our current administration is our ability to extend the longevity of our veterans. The fact that we have guys like Pendles, Sidey, Howe, Cox still going strong well into their 30s is such a refreshing change than the previous era when our champions were all cooked and retired at max 30-32 yo for a variety of reasons (ie Swan 32, Cloke 30, Ball 30, Maxwell 31, Reid 31, Beams 30.)

Winning a premiership with a "young average age profile" is so overrated and is no guarantee of a dynasty. We saw in 2010, as the youngest list to win a premiership that it didn't mean anything. Similarly with Baby Bombers 1993, Bulldogs 2016, Melbourne 2021 etc.

To have our prime 26 year olds in 2010 retiring around 30 just meant they only had 4 more years of contending. Compared to now where if we can raise our veteran age for our champions to ~34, our 30 year olds still have another 4-5 years to contribute and can make balancing a list profile in the current era of compromised drafts so much easier. We can have our 30+ year olds providing that matching winning leadership/situational contributions (ie Pendles last quarter, Sidey matchwinning goal, Howe cover for Murphy), our 25-30 year olds in their prime driving the engine room (ie Crisp, JDG, Maynard, Moore) and our early 20s players driving continual improvement within the group (ie Naicos, Hill, Quaynor, McCreery etc).

Really excited about the future and not at all phased by our age profile of 30+ year olds. I'd be more concerned if we shipped them all off like Hawks/North/Carlton/old Melb did and have to spend years as bottom 4 with no leadership to build a winning culture.

it's a great post and i have been thinking about the same thing myself, Pendles and Sidey have never had any pace so can foreseeably go on for another 2-3 years. Howe doesn't appear to have lost a step, I reckon Elliott for me is probably the one who has had bad injuries, and a lesser extent WHE.

 

[Daicosian silk]

IMO a lot of this has little to do with coaching (I realise having faith and managing older players well is important), but I think 90% of it is the simple genetics and game style of the footballer. I think most players given the physical nature of the game, are simply not capable of maintaining anything close to peak performance for very long after 30, no matter what a coaching staff does for them. Both Pendlebury and Sidebottom were two players if you asked me when they were in their early 20's, it would not have surprised me to be told they would play until their mid 30's because stylistically they always looked like the type of players who could have longevity in the game.

Basically I think it's easier said than done to simply say the right way to go about it is to allow veterans to have longevity and carry on, when the fact is no matter what you do, most players performances will drop off a cliff relatively shortly into their 30's, either that or injuries will wreck them. We are in a fortunate situations with some of these vet players (As an example, I genuinely think as important as Mitchell has been, he's someone who looks like he could fall off the wagon pretty quick at some point short to medium term, and I don't expect the coaching staff to just keep playing him if that happens).

Neither Pendles or Sidey’s games have ever relied on speed and power and I think that is probably the main reason they have both been so durable and still playing well into their 30s. If champion players keep performing at a high level they should be retained. There’s no one on our list who looks cooked at the moment and I expect them all to go around next year and keep contributing

 

[Ugene41]

Neither Pendles or Sidey’s games have ever relied on speed and power and I think that is probably the main reason they have both been so durable and still playing well into their 30s. If champion players keep performing at a high level they should be retained. There’s no one on our list who looks cooked at the moment and I expect them all to go around next year and keep contributing

I think even the power/fast athletes like Dangerfield, Gaj Jr, Isaac Smith show you can still contribute into your 30s

The key thing is being able to manage them and make sure they don't succumb to continual soft tissue injuries. They shouldn't be expected to be your week to week workhorses but are there in the big moments in the finals. I'd be much more confident relying on a 33 year old Sidebottom to find us a winning goal in the last quarter of a GF than a 20 year old Ginnivan.

 

[domin8tors]

I think even the power/fast athletes like Dangerfield, Gaj Jr, Isaac Smith show you can still contribute into your 30s

The key thing is being able to manage them and make sure they don't succumb to continual soft tissue injuries. They shouldn't be expected to be your week to week workhorses but are there in the big moments in the finals. I'd be much more confident relying on a 33 year old Sidebottom to find us a winning goal in the last quarter of a GF than a 20 year old Ginnivan.

I think that next year someone like McCrae needs a 3 week block which ties in with resting players. eg) week 6,7 & 8 Pendles, sidebottom and then Mitchell all take a weeks break. that also gives McCrae a great opportunity