Match day experience - an open letter

[Throw]

Hi all,

I'm writing an open letter to the Collingwood Football Club off field leadership. I know the clubs have employees whose job it is to read online commentary about the club, and that this is more likely to be read than any email or angry letter I send. Although I rarely post, I regularly read bigfooty and I would be interested in any comments of Collingwood supporters here.

I'm Victorian originally but have spent the last several years in the Northern Territory. I regularly time my visits to Melbourne around the footy fixture. I'm an MCC member, and my last trip was timed so that I could attend Hawthorn v Sydney, Collingwood v Adelaide and Collingwood v Port Adelaide. Going to the footy is a family ritual, and I often go with my nieces and nephews and my dad.

I attended Hawthorn v Sydney and Collingwood v Adelaide, but elected not to go to this weekend's Port Adelaide game. I notice the club (Eddie in particular) has put a lot of the blame for poor attendances on the AFL fixturing Sunday games, cold weather and the cost of attending. I agree, but these are all factors largely outside the club's control. This letter is about things the club can control.

The flight back to Darwin gave me time to think about why; having flown down with the purpose of going to the footy; I elected not to go to the Port Adelaide game.

The match day experience has radically changed in recent years. I suspect the change has been gradual and not obvious to people who regularly go to the footy, but living interstate seems to have given me a better perspective. For example, when I was a kid and going to the footy in the 90's, I don't recall gambling being rammed down my throat to the extent that is typical today, particularly in Collingwood home games. Hawthorn to its credit had a lot of beyond blue advertising.

Living in the NT and having previously worked in criminal law, I saw first hand the social problems caused by gambling. I'm really angry that the club is allowing its brand to be exploited to normalise gambling. There are Australian children in 2014 who regularly go days without food because dad has spent the Centrelink money on gambling. Women get bashed because of fights that start around problem gambling. So spare me your indigenous round hearts and flowers bullshit. It is very easy to put some dots on your jumper and paint the big reconcialiation R on the ground for one round a year and assert some sort of black cred. Or even sending footballers to remote communities to have a kick with the kids. Put your money where your mouth is and stop promoting and glamourising gambling.

I'm not a prude, or an anti-gambling crusader per se, however the fact of the matter is that the club has taken its loyal, captive audience and has used it to flog a product that is known to be harmful. My nieces and nephews look forward to when their uncle is down from Darwin and takes them to the footy, but I won't be enabling the club to ram gambling down their throats, just as my Dad wouldn't have allowed it when I was that age. At least watching the game on TV you can mute the ads, or explain to the kid in the room that as an adult I think online gambling is stupid, "the house always wins", or that if that smug little shit Tom Waterhouse ever gets one cent of your money I will disown you as a nephew. Or that despite the gambling ads with attractive women in them, you're more likely to lose a woman to gambling than to land one. You can't do it at the footy.

Also, there is an ad that regularly features in Collingwood games on the big screen. A car manufacturer's logo appears with the really loud sound of an engine revving and flashing lights, ostensibly to "rev up" the groud. With say 40,000 people in a crowd, the club and/or the MCC is really exposing itself to litigation if one of them happens to be an epileptic and goes into a fit. Separate to that risk, it's a really shit imposition for the other 39,999 people who aren't epileptic. I suggest the club gets legal advice on that ad, and generally stops treating its supporters as mugs.

My future Melbourne trips will be planned around other clubs games, and I'll making a donation to a problem gambling charity instead of renewing my Collingwood membership (although I'll definitely renew my MCC membership). I won't be taking my nieces and nephews to a game as long as the experience is as it is.

This is not a knock on any players, coaches or the club in general which over the years has brought me a lot of joy. Just the people who are employed and paid well to make decisions in the best interests of the club, and who apparently seem to favour short term profit over the long term best interests.

TLDR: the club should cop some of the blame for poor match day attendances, instead of passing the buck to the AFL.

 

[Ketchup]

I understand what your saying with the whole club needs to take some of the blame. And they do in part. But I dare say the advertising gambling (which is somewhat done by the AFL I would suspect aswell as it is done at all games I goto when I goto other clubs with mates, and the Holden rev up has nothing to do with the poor attendances no offence, just an opinion.

Understandably people don't like being told when to cheer or what to gamble on, but I highly doubt that would cause people to go to the footy. I can see how some families would not like to take a child to an environment that is promoting gambling but it's got to do with abit of the kids age aswell Id say. I don't know how old your nieces and nephews are but I take my cousin to the footy every now and then, he is 13 and not once has he asked about the gambling ads, and I dare say he wouldn't even know what it means. Wouldn't it affect more of the older teenagers say 15-18? To which I would say the parents/schools should start educating on the effects gambling can have on a life, at the same stage as they would be teaching them (schools in particular) about drugs and sex as they get to that age.

 

[Throw]

But I dare say the advertising gambling (which is somewhat done by the AFL I would suspect aswell as it is done at all games I goto when I goto other clubs with mates, and the Holden rev up has nothing to do with the poor attendances no offence, just an opinion.

Understandably people don't like being told when to cheer or what to gamble on, but I highly doubt that would cause people to go to the footy.

Fair call. It is the difference between me (and my entourage of impressionable kids) going and not going, but I accept that I may be in the minority in that respect. I suspect that there are others out there though.

Even if the numbers are very small (which I doubt), there's still a long term cost to the club. If my dad hadn't taken me as a kid, I wouldn't have invested the time and money into the club that I did in subsequent years. The club would not have had the benefit of my support. If the club wants my nieces and nephews (and any of my own future kids) as future supporters, it's going about it the wrong way. I suppose the club should think about promoting its own brand before promoting others. One less member in 2015 wont matter, but the difference between several kids being regular footy goers and them staying home will cost far more in lost support over the years. A shit match day experience comes at a real opportunity cost to the club. The club shouldn't find itself in a position where parents feel they shouldn't be taking their kids to the footy, and I know a large number of people who feel that way. I doubt the gambling revenue is worth that future cost.

 

[Markfs]

One word of advice. A respected uncle has a lot more clout than a wimpy waterhouse pushing his gambling drug or whatever image the gambling corporation uses to push its message.

Just tell the nieces what you have written here. Tell of all the pain and suffering this addiction causes. Tell them how big pricks like Packer swan around the world living on the losses of the average punter. They will get the message. Dont underestimate how much they listen to you.

ps. and tell them this when the advertisements are running.....and laugh at the cheap tricks they use to scam their money

 

[Markfs]

I take my cousin to the footy every now and then, he is 13 and not once has he asked about the gambling ads, and I dare say he wouldn't even know what it means.

Personally.....my opinion.... is that you're missing an opportunity to educate him about what kind of people these gambling pushers are....how they prey on the weak. I've done it with my son and his eyes are open about these clowns.

 

[dansa]

The match day experience has really deteriorated in recent seasons and I don't enjoy it nearly as much as I used to.

The gambling ads
The ridiculously loud advertising on the big screen between qtrs.
The dance troupe
The Holden rev up the crowd
The crappy run throughs
The wave the advertising sign for the camera
The Kiss cam
The bays of empty seats in the Collingwood end
The sheltered workshop they call a cheersquad
The lack of any atmosphere
The lack of a decent social club

Damn. Reading that whinge I just realised I must be getting old.

 

[Throw]

The match day experience has really deteriorated in recent seasons and I don't enjoy it nearly as much as I used to.

The gambling ads
The ridiculously loud advertising on the big screen between qtrs.
The dance troupe
The Holden rev up the crowd
The crappy run throughs
The wave the advertising sign for the camera
The Kiss cam
The bays of empty seats in the Collingwood end
The sheltered workshop they call a cheersquad
The lack of any atmosphere
The lack of a decent social club

Damn. Reading that whinge I just realised I must be getting old.

I agree with all of this. The dance troupe is lame, kind of cringeworthy but ultimately harmless. The kiss cam is an imposition and one I don't like. I would add the organ music with that American baseball theme. Those things bug me but aren't dealbreakers as far as attending the game is concerned. the gambling advertising and holden rev up however cross a line with me, where it starts becoming insulting to the person who made the effort to attend the game, and I find myself losing sympathy for an organisation, which seems to see us not as members or supporters, but consumers to be exploited.

 

[Big Bryza]

The Collingwood dancers can **** right off. It's a football game not a circus. It's bloody embarrassing watching them carry on when they boys are walking out and ready to run through the banner. Agree on the Holden revometer shit as well. I was astounded when I was at Metricon a month ago and how manufactured their crowd noise was with shit coming up on the scoreboard to 'cheer louder'. I mean wtf is that shit. To see it now spreading to the MCG. It's just not Football. I love going to the footy and always will but with pricing in terms of tickets and food being ridicously expensive, timing of games all over the place, plus the fact Foxtel show every game live, I can see why people would rather sit in the comfort of their own home or at the pub.

 

[dansa]

......an organisation, which seems to see us not as members or supporters, but consumers to be exploited.

You summarised it perfectly. Sadly this is the modern day Collingwood FC.

 

[TradeDraft]

I found it interesting the Crowds gone down at Pies AFL Games but Crowds seem up at Pies Home Games at Vic Park

 

[BoxMatrix]

Yeah...

Their are two things that really annoy me besides the empty collingwood end... The dance crew and the "get loud" thing.

Not needed and not necessary.

 

[TradeDraft]

What about that No One Trust the AFL and they are Destroying the Game

 

[Throw]

Yeah...

Their are two things that really annoy me besides the empty collingwood end... The dance crew and the "get loud" thing.

Not needed and not necessary.

the get loud thing isn't there because it's "needed" - it's there because Holden gave the club a bucket of money to put it there, and to give it pride of place during game time. The revving up part is just a front for what is really such a loud ad that they would would otherwise not dare to try to get away with it. So loud and with flashing lights that you can't ignore it, or even hear the flogs on triple M on your ipod.

It's more than an annoyance. It shows contempt for the people who paid good money to attend and watch the footy, and I think betrays a particular approach at the club. An ad that prominent would have gone through many hands, and been OK'd by many people. Not many clubs or similar entities would treat their members like that. I think it's remarkable.

 

[Jasper84]

the get loud thing isn't there because it's "needed" - it's there because Holden gave the club a bucket of money to put it there, and to give it pride of place during game time. The revving up part is just a front for what is really such a loud ad that they would would otherwise not dare to try to get away with it. So loud and with flashing lights that you can't ignore it, or even hear the flogs on triple M on your ipod.

It's more than an annoyance. It shows contempt for the people who paid good money to attend and watch the footy, and I think betrays a particular approach at the club. An ad that prominent would have gone through many hands, and been OK'd by many people. Not many clubs or similar entities would treat their members like that. I think it's remarkable.

I think you have touched on why the club does what it does. I am guessing the men in the background have crunched the numbers and established that the revenue generated by Holden and gambling sponsorships far outweighs the lost income of disgruntled fans. Same goes with the match times which are more TV friendly than live crowd friendly. You can always expect people like Ed to complain about bad time slots as he will always like to appear a man of the people. However, what kind of ratings do you think his and Derm's show gets when it follows a Pies game? I am guessing a lot more than usual.

We can talk about how much going to live matches has changed, but ultimately I think even if the masses vote with their feet, they are more than likely going to watch it at home which will boost ratings, which in turn will boost money paid for advertisements, which will just generate more money for the AFL and clubs.

 

[Anzacday]

The rev up after a goal is a complete rip-off from Adelaide oval, they put up on their scoreboard after a goal a call for the 19th man, (crowd) to get involved.
Having been there earlier this year against the Crows, it's much better than anything we do; then again original is often the best.
Off to Subi for the first time be interested to see what they do/how their crowd behaves

PS: I hate gambling, not enough to stop me from going to the footy, (I just complain about it).

 

[Trickster]

I think you have touched on why the club does what it does. I am guessing the men in the background have crunched the numbers and established that the revenue generated by Holden and gambling sponsorships far outweighs the lost income of disgruntled fans. Same goes with the match times which are more TV friendly than live crowd friendly. You can always expect people like Ed to complain about bad time slots as he will always like to appear a man of the people. However, what kind of ratings do you think his and Derm's show gets when it follows a Pies game? I am guessing a lot more than usual.

We can talk about how much going to live matches has changed, but ultimately I think even if the masses vote with their feet, they are more than likely going to watch it at home which will boost ratings, which in turn will boost money paid for advertisements, which will just generate more money for the AFL and clubs.

There's another alternative if people want to get their message across don't turn up, don't get foxtel and just watch it at a pub for free. Cheaper beer and food and neither the AFL or foxtel or ch 7 benefit.

I often wonder that the people who don't turn up are generally club, afl, mcc members so the club probably loses little on the day, what i suspect they're really afraid of is that fans ditch their membership down the track. So if you take out your membership go to 5 games a year but keep renewing the club are happy.

 

[neilk]

I sat in the Olympic stand on Sunday and when I looked to the Ponsford stand our cheer squad in the their white gear looked pathetically down on numbers compared to the Port cheer squad at the opposing end?? I think the club has had something to do with this but I'm not sure of the reasoning.

 

[SuperSub17]

The Get Loud shit can **** off. I can't stand it - they had it at Metricon as well a month ago and it's just so fake and unnecessary. We are not an expansion side, we know when to cheer and make some noise. That and it's so loud you can't talk to the person sitting next to you.

Piss it off.

 

[BoxMatrix]

It's more than an annoyance. It shows contempt for the people who paid good money to attend and watch the footy, and I think betrays a particular approach at the club. An ad that prominent would have gone through many hands, and been OK'd by many people. Not many clubs or similar entities would treat their members like that. I think it's remarkable.

I've had the experience to go to other clubs home games (essendon, Richmond and Hawthorn come to mind.) These clubs all do this to the members in one way or another. Collingwood is not the only team doing this. It just seems to be a current trend.

 

[sloth6]

The rev up after a goal is a complete rip-off from Adelaide oval, they put up on their scoreboard after a goal a call for the 19th man, (crowd) to get involved.
Having been there earlier this year against the Crows, it's much better than anything we do; then again original is often the best.
Off to Subi for the first time be interested to see what they do/how their crowd behaves

PS: I hate gambling, not enough to stop me from going to the footy, (I just complain about it).

Spot on Anzacday, I made the trek over to Adelaide as well. It was great at the Adelaide Oval - it suits the ground and they also times it a whole lot better.

At the G, we have already cheered for the goal. The cheering stops and then a few seconds later the stupid thing comes on the screen. At the Adelaide Oval it was timed much better as it was a continuation of the cheering for the goal scored. The screen also so low to the ground helps bigtime.

Don't get me started on the dance troupe - it is embarrassing.

 

[3kicks3goals]

Good thread. Match day is full of attempts to 'entertain' the crowd at any possible quiet moment, as if we'll get bored and leave or something. Drives me nuts. What happened to having a chat to your friends and the people around you about the previous 30 mins of hopefully exciting footy?

 

[Vampire013]

I only still go because I bloody pay for 5 AFL Memberships. If there wasn't a waiting list for full membership, I'd dump all of them tomorrow.
This is not to say that it won't happen in the future.
TBH, I've never paid attention to the gambling ads because gambling has never interested me.
I've never been a sucker and don't pay attention to it. I have taught my kids the same.
Stay away from drugs and gambling.
I hate that stupid kiss cam also. I was at Collingwood v North final H&A match last season.
The idiots put me on kiss cam. I was sitting next to my mates sister who is a childhood friend.
My wife was not at the game. What am I supposed to do. Sloppy kiss a friend because the idiots chose me.
Lucky my quick thinking daughter was there and pecked me on the cheek and saved me
I am one of the many disenchanted with the game.

 

[Stripes B and W]

Interesting discussion Throw, a discussion long overdue. I an in agreement that the match day experience has deterioated markedly in the past 'few' years , probably more.
Your major concerns, if i have read your post correctly are with gambling ads and the Holden ad. I am a regular attendee to our games as well as a few others from time to time.
I must say that i barely notice gambling ads ( am i an inveterate non ad watcher, or maybe i have become desensitised ) and, as has been said, most clubs employ some irritating technique to generate some crowd noise. If anything, anecdotally i'd say there is a significantly less sense of gambling this current season.
I am much more concerned with the normalisation of alcohol use associated with attending an AFL football game from an advertising standpoint. Societal cost of alcohol abuse costs this country a mere B$40 per annum ( that's right 40 billion each and every year ) My night at the football was impacted by 2 groups of three 'drunks', one embarassing trio one group more threatening. Sadly, par for the course.
Back to game day experience, i would implore our club to consider more footy related activity/entertainment. I'd encourage the bringing of kids to certain games free of charge when attending with a member for example. Im not a fan of the dance troupe or kiss cam nor offended by them .

Im more concerned with things outside our clubs control such as the obvious fixturing issues, costs and ticketing. For me the over riding issue facing the game is the product itself. There is an increasing number of just dreadful games which means the non aligned supported simply wont attend. Without going into this is detail, huge numbers around the ball mean the game is 'easier' to watch and unravel as to what is going on as a TV viewer. This is so accesible with pay TV of course. In fact at all MCG games so many more people watch the screen than the field of play to actually ' see' what is happening 'inside' Match day is generally flat unless its a huge blockbuster style game, with no pre game interest people tending to arrive late. I'd really enjoy an VFL or TAC game to occasionally be rostered.

 

[Throw]

I've had the experience to go to other clubs home games (essendon, Richmond and Hawthorn come to mind.) These clubs all do this to the members in one way or another. Collingwood is not the only team doing this. It just seems to be a current trend.

Sorry I should have been more clear. I know other clubs have certain sounds and images on the big screen after a goal. I've heard the gold coast trumpet tune from their song played after a goal. I also saw at the Hawthorn game I went to there was an animated swooping hawk with a sponsor of some sort. I used to live in Canberra and I recall Swans games had it too. Here in Darwin the NT Thunder sometimes have the riff from AC/DC's Thunderstruck - harmless and it actually kind of works.

The rev up sound at Collingwood games is another thing entirely. The volume and the flashing lights make it a much larger imposition. I wasn't kidding about the risk to epileptics either. When it happens, someone will be liable and it won't be Holden.

Anyway just a personal view, as an MCC member and after much introspection I'd sooner time my Melbourne trips around a good Hawthorn home game than a Collingwood one. I'm not flying thousands of kilometers to be yelled at by Holden.

At some point over the last decade or so, the unwritten contract between supporters and the club has been broken and it wasn't by us. I think this past weekend I only just realised it. If Collingwood (or specifically the people at the club being paid to make these decisions) wants to treat me as a consumer rather than a member, then I'm going to reciprocate. Loyalty is a two way street. When they start acting like a club of members then they can rely on the loyalty of a member, but at the moment they are approaching corporate partners to flog a product; specifically the loyalty and attention of supporters and members. They take your passion then turn it into money for the club yes but also themselves individually, living the high life off your commitment. No problem with that so far, but they then turn around and ram that advertising down our throats. Who the **** are they to treat us like that?

It's not that hard to run a club with a membership base of 70,000 and the history that Collingwood has. The hard stuff has been done for them. Just hire the right people and put in place proper governance and recruitment processes so we don't get exposed like Essendon. And don't treat your supporters like mugs. Anyone could do it.

Just to be clear- I'm not renewing my Collingwood membership, and it's not because of the cost of food, or the fixture, it's because the club seems to think it can exploit its match day supporters, best exemplified by that Holden ad and getting into bed with online gambling. Not renewing my membership (and posting on big footy) are the only ways for me to vote with my feet.

I have a lot of time for Eddie McGuire. He came to my school when I was in year 12, gave a great talk about not doing drugs. He was a busy guy back then, and as a busy guy now I can appreciate how generous he was with his time. I was asked to speak at a school in Darwin and declined because I was too busy - something I regret and won't repeat - so Eddie in a lot of ways you're a better man than me. I also think he's been great for the club. However on this I disagree. Don't ram gambling ads down our throats and don't scream at us with the Holden ad, and maybe we'll be more inclined to rock up. In the mean time spare us this drivel about asking the AFL for compensation.

Otherwise, go pies.

 

[Hva sher a]

this is a really great thread Throw
I used to go to matches fairly regularly but having moved to Geelong and then having kids the opportunities aren't as plentiful anymore. Nevertheless when I went earlier this year (for the first time in 4 years) I was astounded at the total lack of atmosphere. I don't know if its the gambling ads or the dancing troupe or the cost of going to the footy but I sense that many supporters with passion and soul have either been priced out and/or are disenchanted with the game.
It's not the rules nor is it the lack of success nor is it the style of footy. Heck 1999 was a lot more fun and we were a far crappier side.

I don't know what the answer is but having gone recently to a local Geelong St Peters match I was amazed at how much I enjoyed the experience (to use a corporate term). And I think it was because it was about the footy - no more, no less.

I'll still love my Pies but I'm afraid that my $$ are better spent on the local footy as well as Foxtel. I'm afraid that I'll end up being one of those supporters that just turns up to finals or whenever I get a corporate ticket. I'm disappointed but this is where the game is heading.