Coach Men's Senior Coach: Brad Scott

[andleanback]

I think it's a good choice. For me there's no blinding stand-out to be the next skipper at the moment. Merrett, McGrath, Redman all in the conversation of course, but there's no clear-cut choice at the moment. I think going into this year - where all players will know the handover is imminent - will really make the leader candidates rise to the top, and make it an easier decision hopefully.

The same could be said last year as most thought it was heppells last year. You’re captain doesn’t have to be our best player, but he sure has to have an impact on field every week and have impact on contests that inspire team mates.

 

[yodellinhank]

I can only assume you didn't watch us very closely then.

First season we played a simple high pressure gameplan, with guys like AMT and Snelling fit and providing pressure.

Second season he tried to ramp up the complexity of the system (basic high pressure only takes you so far) with both AMT and Snelling not playing, it didn't work.

You often type a lot of words, but don't seem to read a lot in return. ant555 has posted at length about how we played, and whilst you might disagree with his conclusions, I don't see how you can gloss over the whole thing - repeatedly - and pretend Rutten didn't attempt to play a defensive gameplan.

We played a simple high-pressure game, we drafted two-ways runners, we tried to ramp up the complexity to build a system capable of standing up in finals.

And picked blokes who refused to fill a hole in the zone or close down space at a stoppage etc. There's more to a defensive game plan than telling players to tackle.

Rutten may have wanted to play a defensive gameplan but it is far from what we got, and he kept ticking off the way things were going.

 

[Keystone agony]

& no Tippa did not help Rutten at all.

Yeh you cant play any defense really if you cant lock the ball inside 50

Everyone thought in the hawks era was all about their kicking and ball movement but they prioritised F50 stoppages over anything.

Think it was more that collective group missing/domino effect and having no depth. Weideman, Setterfield assist that depth as does the draftees/mature rooks picked in the last 8 months ect

 

[faible]

And picked blokes who refused to fill a hole in the zone or close down space at a stoppage etc. There's more to a defensive game plan than telling players to tackle.

Rutten may have wanted to play a defensive gameplan but it is far from what we got, and he kept ticking off the way things were going.

Availability was a huge issue, we had no depth in the small forward or midfield to plug the gap.

Partly due to long term drafting decisions that haven’t prioritised guys who’ll work hard both ways until recently.

Who was he going to drop and select instead that would fix it?

 

[yodellinhank]

Availability was a huge issue, we had no depth in the small forward or midfield to plug the gap.

Partly due to long term drafting decisions that haven’t prioritised guys who’ll work hard both ways until recently.

Who was he going to drop and select instead that would fix it?

There was noticable improvement when Shiel was "dropped". More of that and higher standards in general would probably have helped. Instead we were on the right track and couldn't understand what went wrong, when you can see from the stands a midfield running away from the contest for a handball receive that never came.

 

[ant555]

Better to play down than pump up and flop.
In seriousness though, no one can look at our list profile and and think we should be a contender in 2023. If we win 10 games that’s a good result this year.

That is where it should be at. I think winning another 3 or 4 games and not getting smashed off the park in the first half would be a pass. Despite our short comings we are a side that should be in the mid range of the ladder.

 

[ant555]

Rutten's problem was that he didn't emphasise defence from the start. An interesting approach for a guy who had been trying to strengthen defence for 2 years (and who had nothing to show for that).

He fed the beast and then didn't have the credibility to reign in back in.

Whether he felt he had the backing of the club required to ride out an ugly 2021 is likely to be one of the key problems.

But then that takes me back to the pretty simple reality that he was given the job as a pr management stunt. The key person that believed in him wasn't even part of the team and the holdovers were trying to deflect away from the debacle of the premature extension of Worsfold followed by his checking out.

There was virtually no basis for anyone at the club to be satisfied that Rutten was the man for the job or even something approaching the best candidate.

We should then face what was staring us in the face the whole time. The guy was incapable of articulating anything meaningful about the game. It should not be a surprise that he failed.

He wanted to play defense but in the end they tried a defensive system leading into season 2 that did not get buy in because there where too many moving parts to it. the other thing that killed our team defense last year was no small forward to apply pressure. We where shit truck slow in the forward half and had nothing quick to bring in. The second thing that hurt us was no selection pressure on the midfield. We had no AFL listed players available to play midfield in the VFL at any stage so there was no chance to send someone back and bring the next guy in.
To say he did not emphasize defense from the start is not right. You can say the players did not buy it and it is the coaches job to sell the plan but you can not say he did not try and create a team wide defense .
I still think if they won 6 or 7 games in 2021 and there was no pressure to rush a more advanced game plan he would still have his job as they would not have pushed forward in their planning as hard and they would have played more like they did mid season from the start rather than having to dumb things down a bit after round 6.
Would have also been handy for him to have the development coaches Scott now has.

 

[ant555]

And picked blokes who refused to fill a hole in the zone or close down space at a stoppage etc. There's more to a defensive game plan than telling players to tackle.

Rutten may have wanted to play a defensive gameplan but it is far from what we got, and he kept ticking off the way things were going.

Name the midfielders pushing up via VFL form ? Oh that's right , no AFL listed player played midfield in the VFL for the whole season other than Hobbs early in the season. I am sure Bernacki and Rasinac and Cootee would have loved a game . Also had zero fast small forwards available. You can not select something that is not there.

 

[ant555]

There was noticable improvement when Shiel was "dropped". More of that and higher standards in general would probably have helped. Instead we were on the right track and couldn't understand what went wrong, when you can see from the stands a midfield running away from the contest for a handball receive that never came.

Actually they where not bad against the Pies in round 6 but not really that good against the Dogs in R7 which was when Shiel was supposed to be the sub. the improvement came in R8 when everyone pulled out late and we played a dumbed down pressure based game against the Hawks which they ended up sticking with. Even then we still had average games against the Swans and Tigers in the next 2.

 

[yodellinhank]

Name the midfielders pushing up via VFL form ? Oh that's right , no AFL listed player played midfield in the VFL for the whole season other than Hobbs early in the season. I am sure Bernacki and Rasinac and Cootee would have loved a game . Also had zero fast small forwards available. You can not select something that is not there.

It's classic Essendon Bigfooty. You can't blame the coach, even when the players are openly ignoring him. You can't blame the players, they're let down by other players not playing their roles. You can't blame the high performance staff they had great results elsewhere. You can't blame the surface at Tulla, the poo wasn't on the Main Oval.

You can blame Dodoro, but not the players he drafted somehow. So I guess you can't blame Dodoro.

BLOODY SHEEDY!

 

[yodellinhank]

the improvement came in R8 when everyone pulled out late and we played a dumbed down pressure based game against the Hawks which they ended up sticking with. Even then we still had average games against the Swans and Tigers in the next 2.

Interesting we can't drop players because there's nobody to replace them, but when forced we improve?

 

[ant555]

Interesting we can't drop players because there's nobody to replace them, but when forced we improve?

They threw the game plan out the window and it was not really the midfield who missed in that game.
Waterman , Kelly , Ridley , Stringer , Guelfi , Cox and Durham went out for Francis , Lord , BZK , Ham , Smith , Bryan and Ham.
Non of the midfielders who where not always doing all they could where replaced.

It's classic Essendon Bigfooty. You can't blame the coach, even when the players are openly ignoring him. You can't blame the players, they're let down by other players not playing their roles. You can't blame the high performance staff they had great results elsewhere. You can't blame the surface at Tulla, the poo wasn't on the Main Oval.

You can blame Dodoro, but not the players he drafted somehow. So I guess you can't blame Dodoro.

BLOODY SHEEDY!

Classic Big Footy. Not really use all the factors. We had no selection pressure .No midfield depth. No small forwards.
Coach gets the blame for trying to implement a game plan they should not have tried as they knew the group was not ready for that step. That was the **** up he made. They got ahead of the plan and he got burnt. Truck failed to sell the plan and also took a major risk with game plan that did not work so that is on him and why he is gone. It had nothing to do with him saying he wanted a team defense and not trying to implement it.
Scott has an advantage at this stage. There looks to be pressure for midfield spots and he has a couple of small forward options. He also knows how badly trying to implement a complex team defense structure failed so by all reports the new game plan is starting with basic pressure and keeping the footy in the forward half . If Truck had of stuck with a bit more of that I suspect he wins a couple more games and we do not play like under 14 div 4 6 or 7 times.

 

[Keystone agony]

Interesting we can't drop players because there's nobody to replace them, but when forced we improve?

Didnt you know weve been able to pick and choose when we improve and go backwards, its why weve been so good for the last 20 years

 

[Old Campaigner]

They threw the game plan out the window and it was not really the midfield who missed in that game.
Waterman , Kelly , Ridley , Stringer , Guelfi , Cox and Durham went out for Francis , Lord , BZK , Ham , Smith , Bryan and Ham.
Non of the midfielders who where not always doing all they could where replaced.

Classic Big Footy. Not really use all the factors. We had no selection pressure .No midfield depth. No small forwards.
Coach gets the blame for trying to implement a game plan they should not have tried as they knew the group was not ready for that step. That was the * up he made. They got ahead of the plan and he got burnt. Truck failed to sell the plan and also took a major risk with game plan that did not work so that is on him and why he is gone. It had nothing to do with him saying he wanted a team defense and not trying to implement it.
Scott has an advantage at this stage. There looks to be pressure for midfield spots and he has a couple of small forward options. He also knows how badly trying to implement a complex team defense structure failed so by all reports the new game plan is starting with basic pressure and keeping the footy in the forward half . If Truck had of stuck with a bit more of that I suspect he wins a couple more games and we do not play like under 14 div 4 6 or 7 times.

My issue is that presumably at some point the players are going to have to learn how to implement a more complex gameplan than "basic pressure and keeping the footy in the forward half".

I'm not sure if there's a natural evolution of that which can be gradually introduced after a couple of years of basic pressure footy or something.

 

[yodellinhank]

They threw the game plan out the window and it was not really the midfield who missed in that game.
Waterman , Kelly , Ridley , Stringer , Guelfi , Cox and Durham went out for Francis , Lord , BZK , Ham , Smith , Bryan and Ham.
Non of the midfielders who where not always doing all they could where replaced.

Classic Big Footy. Not really use all the factors. We had no selection pressure .No midfield depth. No small forwards.
Coach gets the blame for trying to implement a game plan they should not have tried as they knew the group was not ready for that step. That was the * up he made. They got ahead of the plan and he got burnt. Truck failed to sell the plan and also took a major risk with game plan that did not work so that is on him and why he is gone. It had nothing to do with him saying he wanted a team defense and not trying to implement it.
Scott has an advantage at this stage. There looks to be pressure for midfield spots and he has a couple of small forward options. He also knows how badly trying to implement a complex team defense structure failed so by all reports the new game plan is starting with basic pressure and keeping the footy in the forward half . If Truck had of stuck with a bit more of that I suspect he wins a couple more games and we do not play like under 14 div 4 6 or 7 times.

Failed to sell the plan is right. It's a worry when abandoning the gameplan gets you better results. Scott will have his work cut out for him to change the culture of the group. Starts with leadership driving standards...

 

[Keystone agony]

My issue is that presumably at some point the players are going to have to learn how to implement a more complex gameplan than "basic pressure and keeping the footy in the forward half".

I'm not sure if there's a natural evolution of that which can be gradually introduced after a couple of years of basic pressure footy or something.

Very hard to implement certain defensive mechanisms without good pressure and F50 stoppage

What complex gameplan would you actually be talking about exactly?

No teams trying to do something significantly different to any other side atm. There are small things but its more related to personel acquisition vs what the oppo personel

Game plan most over rated term in footy because its so easy to say and people will buy it

 

[ant555]

My issue is that presumably at some point the players are going to have to learn how to implement a more complex gameplan than "basic pressure and keeping the footy in the forward half".

I'm not sure if there's a natural evolution of that which can be gradually introduced after a couple of years of basic pressure footy or something.

That's where it takes a few years to manipulate the list. You start to bring in new players and move on those who continually do not buy in. They have to stick with Scott now for 4 or 5 seasons. Truck never got the chance to work the list because they made a poor move by trying to jump too far forward , probably because of the pressure for results based on them over achieving in 2021.
I said last year it would take 4 to 7 years of turning players over. Not a lot has changed . It will be a different look playing list that eventually has the leadership and ability to take the next step. Despite the change of coach and the likelihood of it being set back a year we are at year 3 of a rebuild.

 

[ant555]

And just as I say that I read
[Quote = "Bad Scott"]
I couldn’t be more impressed with Dyson Heppell … he’s led this club through quite a challenging period in his career,” he said.

“If he wants to continue as captain, then I suspect that’s what will happen."

Vale Brad Scott. Who's next?
[/QUOTE]

I think this says a lot about what I have said about the total lack of depth in the leadership we have. If there was someone really putting their hand up there would be a change. At least they stood firm on the 1 year deal.

 

[yodellinhank]

I think this says a lot about what I have said about the total lack of depth in the leadership we have. If there was someone really putting their hand up there would be a change. At least they stood firm on the 1 year deal.

If you never go you never know. We didn't have the players to win a game til we had all those late withdrawals.

 

[ant555]

If you never go you never know. We didn't have the players to win a game til we had all those late withdrawals.

BEST
Essendon: Wright, Martin, Redman, Parish, Merrett, Hind, Hobbs

Only one to come back in that night from the best was Hind. Are you saying Ham was inspirational ?

I think one more year of Heppell with someone like Redman in the leadership group and Hobbs developing is not too bad. A few of the others have to really prove they will buy in before they are given a shot.

 

[yodellinhank]

BEST
Essendon: Wright, Martin, Redman, Parish, Merrett, Hind, Hobbs

Only one to come back in that night from the best was Hind. Are you saying Ham was inspirational ?

I think one more year of Heppell with someone like Redman in the leadership group and Hobbs developing is not too bad. A few of the others have to really prove they will buy in before they are given a shot.

Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a better result. If Scott wants to be given the benefit of "it'll take time" then he needs to be seen to be making an effort to effect a change. She'll be roight 2023.

 

[faible]

My issue is that presumably at some point the players are going to have to learn how to implement a more complex gameplan than "basic pressure and keeping the footy in the forward half".

I'm not sure if there's a natural evolution of that which can be gradually introduced after a couple of years of basic pressure footy or something.

Part of this will come from replacing players who can’t or won’t do the defensive work with those who can and will.

 

[BrunoV]

I can only assume you didn't watch us very closely then.

First season we played a simple high pressure gameplan, with guys like AMT and Snelling fit and providing pressure.

Second season he tried to ramp up the complexity of the system (basic high pressure only takes you so far) with both AMT and Snelling not playing, it didn't work.

You often type a lot of words, but don't seem to read a lot in return. ant555 has posted at length about how we played, and whilst you might disagree with his conclusions, I don't see how you can gloss over the whole thing - repeatedly - and pretend Rutten didn't attempt to play a defensive gameplan.

We played a simple high-pressure game, we drafted two-ways runners, we tried to ramp up the complexity to build a system capable of standing up in finals.

I said Rutten didn't emphasise defence from the start and then couldn't reign the beast back in.

Your response is I didn't watch closely in 2021 because pressure.

For a start that response is trite because pressure is a fundamental of any game plan. Who is trying to play a game style that doesn't require pressure? Trite is probably the wrong way to phrase it, because the response it just off point. If I say it's trite I'm conceding that you're on point.

We also then agree that Rutten then tried to bring in the defensive system (i.e. the defensive emphasis) in year 2. It failed.

And yet I need a lecture about not reading posts...

 

[Godzke]

If Brad Scott wins us a flag, the grand final broadcast will pan to Ben Rutten

Ben Rutten

Age

41

Ht

190cm

Wt

98kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

13.4

3star

K

6.3

2star

HB

7.0

4star

M

5.3

5star

T

1.3

3star

No current season stats available

D

10.6

3star

K

6.2

3star

HB

4.4

4star

M

3.6

4star

T

1.0

3star

singing Nickelback - Photograph

 

[MiguelM]

My issue is that presumably at some point the players are going to have to learn how to implement a more complex gameplan than "basic pressure and keeping the footy in the forward half".

I'm not sure if there's a natural evolution of that which can be gradually introduced after a couple of years of basic pressure footy or something.

Unless you are kicking more goals than the opposition.

Not sure Geelong's gamepan is overly complex.