Coach Michael Voss

[katmanblue]

doesn't seem like they will get confidence back under voss, its going the way of the last two coaches. how sickening.

So if it keeps happening under multiple regimes, whats the common factor?

Cripps and co.

On SM-F926B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[katmanblue]

The heat is ramping up, make no mistake .

That's right.

The Heat are into the Eastern Conference Finals.

Time to recognise Coach Spo.

On SM-F926B using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Juddernaut08]

Let's start telegraphing punches to satisfy our supporters. Voss has dramatically changed the game plan this year and it is the right plan. He even changed the plan again at half time against the dogs

The club has 4 choices and let us know your preference

1. Play Teagues plan - No defensive pressure. Flood the back half and lose 15 games a year by 5 goals and finish bottom 6 forever

2. Play Voss 2022 game plan- Play 45 minutes of exciting contested football if Cripps is in brownlow form with no ability to score off opposition turnover, lose 10 games a year and finish 9th or 10th forever.

3. Give Voss 2 seasons until end of 2025 to execute the Modern Transition plan. Expose the players who can not run and spread or dispose of the football. See glimpes of transition from the backhalf underpinned by good contested numbers. Win 7 to 10 games this year. Upgrade the list, football department, assistant coaches, fitness and board to impliment this plan and at least build a foundation that may acheive top 4 or win a premiership even if that is under another coach from 2026

4. Sack Voss at the end of this season Employ a coach who will only repackage option 3 as his own plan and hope he gets better results, while signalling to the playing group that they are not responsible for the Club's performance.

I choose option 3 and an open to being convinced 1,2,4 will deliver better results

Why wait 3 more years? Why not admit we need help and say while Voss is the main man and can inspire effort and determination he's not the brightest tool in the shed. Work hard to bring in assistant coaches/mentors ASAP - like tomorrow - who can help with the gameplan and help him to execute. Get Harry a bloody kicking coach?

 

[SBYM]

The only thing that would happen is a further media pile on, meh, I don't take notice of the press conferences, they are forced and contrived. I'd rather they keep the real message internal.

It's the media pile on that worries me...

Make no mistake...Damo et al will latch onto a narrative and pursue it until, a) the prey starts winning, or b) the prey pulls the trigger and fires its coach.

They are not just journos, they are creators also, and the machine is always ****ing hungry.

I made the point on game day...I am not at all confident in the club holding its nerve.

 

[juzza316]

So if it keeps happening under multiple regimes, whats the common factor?

Cripps and co.

On SM-F926B using BigFooty.com mobile app

Yep, I don't disagree. Easier to sack the coach though than a heap of players. Cripps will likely go to be in his 30's and never have played finals

 

[naysayer]

I come in peace guys. I'm not quite sure where this post belongs but I'll put it here.

There is so much about Carlton this year that screams Richmond 2016, Melbourne 2019. The spine is there. Superstars and ridiculous talent is everywhere on the field (and off it: J.Martin, Williams).

If you look at those other clubs mentioned above, they had these lingering after effects of being easy-beats for so long. It's not an individual problem but one that gets woven into the fabric of the club. Last year's loss to Collingwood proved to me that the Blues were simply incapable of believing they belonged at the top.

But sometimes just one small thing can flick the switch. Might be an honesty session, might be a new player, might be a tough win on the road, might be having the balls to move on a champion like Tiges did with Deledio. Or like the Hawks, might be a yet-to-debut rookie who hit the leadership group right between the eyes (if you haven't read the Luke Lowden

Luke Lowden

Age

33

Ht

206cm

Wt

103kg

Pos.

F/R

Career

Season

Last 5

D

12.0

3star

K

6.0

2star

HB

6.0

4star

M

0.0

1star

T

2.0

4star

G

3.0

5star

No current season stats available

D

12.0

3star

K

6.0

3star

HB

6.0

4star

M

0.0

1star

T

2.0

4star

G

3.0

5star

story, look it up)

I reckon it's a matter of time. Stick fat!

 

[jpfalvo]

It's all so easy when one spends the whole time looking backwards.
However the future is all we have, and in that is hope always.

Whats the famous quotes.

"Those who do not learn from history, are doomed to repeat it"

And "history doesnt repeat, but it often rhymes"

Maybe looking back, seeking some accountability from the decision makers is the step forward.

Additional to this, the 2021 review the club did, and then didnt release the findings.

Some Bigfooty posters at the time suggested, we had no right as members to be shared those findings...

Maybe its time to revisit that report. If we have appointed Voss off the back of its findings, assume its outlining strengths and weaknesses, then seems obvious starting point

For those discussing Brad Lloyd, it was always strange he survived 2021. At one point the commentary was he was looking at other clubs, when all the teague liddle turmoil was unfolding

Sent from my SM-N981B using Tapatalk

 

[The Toad]

I'm absolutely flabbergasted that peeps on here and other footy forums want Voss sacked. what's that famous quote:: All good things come to those who wait.
Yes we have been waiting a while now, but with every new coach comes a new re-build. It will take time to achieve the ultimate success, Rome wasn't build in a day and premierships aren't won in 2 seasons.
I have no doubt we will taste that success we all crave, but we have to give him time. Things need to change, I think he need to make some some hard calls at selection and with the on-field positions, Try something out of the box. Perhaps play H at true CHF, with instructions not to go inside the 50 (unless he's running into goal). Play Charlie one out in the square, tell the smalls to stop leading as much and concentrate on crumbing off Charlie.
Our fwd line is sooo congested its bloody ridiculous.
Get Doc out of the centre and play Saad in there, bring back Kemp perhaps Boyd, give Wieters a spell to regain his confidence.
Play Hewitt as a HFF.
Cripps and Kennedy as inside mids, Saad and Walsh as the extractors, adds pace and versatility to our mid-field.

Just a thought.

 

[Gw2_James]

I'm absolutely flabbergasted that peeps on here and other footy forums want Voss sacked. what's that famous quote:: All good things come to those who wait.
Yes we have been waiting a while now, but with every new coach comes a new re-build. It will take time to achieve the ultimate success, Rome wasn't build in a day and premierships aren't won in 2 seasons.
I have no doubt we will taste that success we all crave, but we have to give him time. Things need to change, I think he need to make some some hard calls at selection and with the on-field positions, Try something out of the box. Perhaps play H at true CHF, with instructions not to go inside the 50 (unless he's running into goal). Play Charlie one out in the square, tell the smalls to stop leading as much and concentrate on crumbing off Charlie.
Our fwd line is sooo congested its bloody ridiculous.
Get Doc out of the centre and play Saad in there, bring back Kemp perhaps Boyd, give Wieters a spell to regain his confidence.
Play Hewitt as a HFF.
Cripps and Kennedy as inside mids, Saad and Walsh as the extractors, adds pace and versatility to our mid-field.

Just a thought.

Why do Collingwood get to finish top 4 in their first year of a new coach, and sitting on top of the ladder as of this week. Why do we always have to wait and wait and wait, only to watch teams shoot high above us.

This team is no longer young, our stars are getting older. If you suggest the coach isnt the problem, then the players are. Keep the coach and do some aggressive trading, or bring in a new coach. If we just twiddle our fingers and not change anything next year, we won't just magically come good.

Something has got to be done and no one knows what the right answer is.

 

[RAPPA]

Hard for your coach when your full back and one of your two key forwards are absolutely stinking it up for a large chunk of the season. And that’s just identifying two out of a fair few who have stagnated or regressed.

 

[Gointocarlton]

Hard for your coach when your full back and one of your two key forwards are absolutely stinking it up for a large chunk of the season. And that’s just identifying two out of a fair few who have stagnated or regressed.

From Fox:
"Statistics show Cerra is ranked 52nd for impact from ball use, Kennedy at 110, Hewett at 242, Walsh at 355 and Cripps at 360"

 

[RAPPA]

From Fox:
"Statistics show Cerra is ranked 52nd for impact from ball use, Kennedy at 110, Hewett at 242, Walsh at 355 and Cripps at 360"

Not surprising that Cerra is leaps and bounds ahead of the others on output, and Cripps is so far below his best. Also hurts that our second best ball user has been the sub at times.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

So simple that they've been doing it since they were 6.

If you really think an AFL coach dedicates even a minute of his time to coaching individual players on their set shot routines then you can't be helped.

Lol.

That's beyond dumb. I've been in the systems and seen that they do.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

I guess the better question is -

In your mind what ARE players responsible for?

Both groups are responsible for improving. Michael Cheika whether you like him or not just said recently - it's a coaches job to get the best out of their players. If the players aren't performing you're not doing your job properly.

It's on the players but it's down to the coach to keep them on track. Harry hasn't had a gk coach for ages and his 'empowered' strategy has fallen apart for over a season. Nothing's been done to push home the do it properly. With any of the players. If a coach isn't looking at conversion rates as a way that weve lost games then.... We have empty skulled coaches

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

Train the way you play. Cliche - yes but true and one thing that all the greats do to distinguish themselves is exactly that. Consistently train the way they play more often than the rest.

Can't say after Teague and now this that this club trains very well. Not with the way they 'execute' nor with the running patterns nor player development/improvement.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

I come in peace guys. I'm not quite sure where this post belongs but I'll put it here.

There is so much about Carlton this year that screams Richmond 2016, Melbourne 2019. The spine is there. Superstars and ridiculous talent is everywhere on the field (and off it: J.Martin, Williams).

If you look at those other clubs mentioned above, they had these lingering after effects of being easy-beats for so long. It's not an individual problem but one that gets woven into the fabric of the club. Last year's loss to Collingwood proved to me that the Blues were simply incapable of believing they belonged at the top.

But sometimes just one small thing can flick the switch. Might be an honesty session, might be a new player, might be a tough win on the road, might be having the balls to move on a champion like Tiges did with Deledio. Or like the Hawks, might be a yet-to-debut rookie who hit the leadership group right between the eyes (if you haven't read the Luke Lowden story, look it up)

I reckon it's a matter of time. Stick fat!

It's that moment / influence though. If you're like me you can't see where it's gonna come from

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

Hard for your coach when your full back and one of your two key forwards are absolutely stinking it up for a large chunk of the season. And that’s just identifying two out of a fair few who have stagnated or regressed.

Gotta ask why they're regressing in the environment set up by footy boss brad Lloyd, Russell and Voss + assistants though. What about it is conducive to players slipping - training standards? Attitude? Etc.

 

[RAPPA]

Gotta ask why they're regressing in the environment set up by footy boss brad Lloyd, Russell and Voss + assistants though. What about it is conducive to players slipping - training standards? Attitude? Etc.

You could ask that same question in relation to the past 10-15 years sadly

 

[blues4flag]

Why do Collingwood get to finish top 4 in their first year of a new coach, and sitting on top of the ladder as of this week. Why do we always have to wait and wait and wait, only to watch teams shoot high above us.

This team is no longer young, our stars are getting older. If you suggest the coach isnt the problem, then the players are. Keep the coach and do some aggressive trading, or bring in a new coach. If we just twiddle our fingers and not change anything next year, we won't just magically come good.

Something has got to be done and no one knows what the right answer is.

I'd suggest that the supporters are the problem. Sack the coach. Trade the players. The captain is no good. The football manager should have been sacked. CEO is a washed up has-been. President is a lackey to the board.

Bring in the next group, a few months of optimism. As soon as things get hard, pile on the pressure. Sack the coach. Trade the players. Repeat ad nauseam.

Perhaps it's time we try something different and actually back in a coach and playing group to get it right.

If you want to see the difference between the good clubs and the bad clubs, look for the ones that back in a coach. If you want to see the moment teams transition from being a bad club to a good club, look for the moments they start backing in their coach.

 

[Bostonian]

Geelong with a few developing players got done by Richmond - who everyone thinks is crapola. Voss got a draw with a full-strength Richmond on fresh legs in round one and beat Geelong - Voss > Hardwick and Scott. Yes?

Ross the Boss got his coaching certificate microwaved by Adelaide's forward line same as Voss did which shows that Voss got the same result as Lyon yes?

Clarkson's Norfs keep getting destroyed - Carlton dodged a bullet not hitting Clarkson. Yes?

The level of criticism heaped on Voss atm is a joke on Carlton supporters.

When will Carlton supporters stop being so short-termist and realise that developing a winning team doesn't happen overnight and is sometimes constrained by player availability/fitness and dare I say it - how that all stacks up on any given day against opposition matchups...

Sure winning is preferable to losing - but seriously just have a look at Carlton's forward line if you want to understand the constraints on game plan as well as execution....of game plan. Now watch teh game from an analytical perspective - despite the obvious lack of match fitness in Hewett and Cripps and playing what looks like a bottom 4 forward line- because that is what Voss has to work with - he changed strategy after the half and the team put on 5 unanswered goals- to get to the lead with 8 minutes to go - did Voss lose two center bounces leading to direct goals?

So all those who say he has no idea about in game changes required are actually clueless or just being disingenuine.

Was it Voss who got Pittonet injured ( again) during the game? Was it Voss who instructed the players to miss regulation set shots?

The only Carlton losers I know seem to post on here with their surreal entitled expectations and their constant negativity based on an inability to compare what Carlton has in terms of playing personnel versus opposition - it is like who cares who the opponent is and what player assets they have at their disposal and how much more time these players have had playing together - it is Carlton! Carlton has to win every game all the time otherwise the Board and the Coach and the Captain and the this and that has to go.

Just LOLworthy views on here and quite a few posters who seem to delight in Carlton losing so that they can impose their expectations and entitlements on everyone.

Give me Adelaide's small/mid forwards, Richmond's / Geelong's continuity of team and coach, thanks - and if the coach still loses games THEN I would be critical. Sydney made a GF last year- with exactly the same team bar an injury to one KPD - this year?

We aren't as bad as all the complainers on here make out and will only ever be as sustainably good as the list and its state of development is.

The absolute worst thing Carlton can do is call for Voss's head - been there done that with 5 other coaches in the last decade or so- absolutely ridiculous turnover - lack of continuity /development lack of consistent list management/player management - it is a disaster.

if we haven't learned that - we will never learn anything.

The idea of continuity is to progressively get better.

We are doing the opposite of that, we are regressing.

Voss has never been a decent head coach at AFL level and was a poor appointment at the time.

He has zero runs on the board to suggest he'll turn into a high level head coach long term.

You have no evidence to show he will.

 

[Blue and Blue]

Whats the famous quotes.

"Those who do not learn from history, are doomed to repeat it"

And "history doesnt repeat, but it often rhymes"

Maybe looking back, seeking some accountability from the decision makers is the step forward.

Additional to this, the 2021 review the club did, and then didnt release the findings.

Some Bigfooty posters at the time suggested, we had no right as members to be shared those findings...

Maybe its time to revisit that report. If we have appointed Voss off the back of its findings, assume its outlining strengths and weaknesses, then seems obvious starting point

For those discussing Brad Lloyd, it was always strange he survived 2021. At one point the commentary was he was looking at other clubs, when all the teague liddle turmoil was unfolding

Sent from my SM-N981B using Tapatalk

Its a nice quote and theory
But humankind has never learnt from its past, rather it invents new debacles
And each moment in time is unique to the present. The future a vast unknown.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

And each moment in time is unique to the present.

Grew up with an archaeologist for a mum. In a technological sense yes but human behaviour and political - no. It repeats.

 

[Blue and Blue]

Grew up with an archaeologist for a mum. In a technological sense yes but human behaviour and political - no. It repeats.

I can dig that.....

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

I'd suggest that the supporters are the problem. Sack the coach. Trade the players. The captain is no good. The football manager should have been sacked. CEO is a washed up has-been. President is a lackey to the board.

Bring in the next group, a few months of optimism. As soon as things get hard, pile on the pressure. Sack the coach. Trade the players. Repeat ad nauseam.

Perhaps it's time we try something different and actually back in a coach and playing group to get it right.

If you want to see the difference between the good clubs and the bad clubs, look for the ones that back in a coach. If you want to see the moment teams transition from being a bad club to a good club, look for the moments they start backing in their coach.

There is a fair bit of accuracy in this, our supporters are hungry and impatient. We also generate a lot of media attention because of the volume of our supporters and how loud we are on social media and talkback.. we make the media companies a fortune and ensure all the 'experts' have something to talk about and the noise adds to the pressure to a point where the board feel they need to act. We need Cook, Sayers & Williams to come out firmly and acknowledge that the season hasnt started to plan but then back in Voss and the players to turn it around..

 

[Ald Gardiner]

I come in peace guys. I'm not quite sure where this post belongs but I'll put it here.

There is so much about Carlton this year that screams Richmond 2016, Melbourne 2019. The spine is there. Superstars and ridiculous talent is everywhere on the field (and off it: J.Martin, Williams).

If you look at those other clubs mentioned above, they had these lingering after effects of being easy-beats for so long. It's not an individual problem but one that gets woven into the fabric of the club. Last year's loss to Collingwood proved to me that the Blues were simply incapable of believing they belonged at the top.

But sometimes just one small thing can flick the switch. Might be an honesty session, might be a new player, might be a tough win on the road, might be having the balls to move on a champion like Tiges did with Deledio. Or like the Hawks, might be a yet-to-debut rookie who hit the leadership group right between the eyes (if you haven't read the Luke Lowden story, look it up)

I reckon it's a matter of time. Stick fat!

Outstanding post by an objective adult.

Yes just a few things to tweak off season and we are a serious threat next year and beyond.

Unlikely to make the 8 this year but could be about taking a step backwards to go forward.

The lack of belief and “losing” culture won’t change overnight, countless examples of that.