Coach Michael Voss

[HarryFlashman]

The Ian Prendercast guys came up with a good point this week, the R11 game when Weiters went down was a turning point for our style of play.

It’s like we were spooked, we’d be scored against too easily, which was kind of weird when we almost won that game even without Weiters.

Thinking further ahead from that game, we had a fairly uninspired win v Essendon and lost to the tigers, then beat the dockers with the slower defensive style which seemingly has given Voss and the MC their template of how they want us to play all the time.

The balance is totally out, seems a bizarre strategy to want to defend from the off, then only attack when it looks like all is lost. I think it’s a mindset thing as well, we are currently playing not to lose, instead of playing to win.

Prendercast does a great job, wish more people in here would listen to it, they do go “against the grain” of some of our more prolific & vocal posters - who quite frankly don’t want to hear anything contrary to there view, which the Prendercast is. I believe there take is a lot more reasoned & accurate than most

 

[HarryFlashman]

Here is a fact for you - the players couldn't kick set shots - no game plan can be held hostage to player inadequacy or failure - why is this so difficult for really clever people like you to understand? ALl teh negative nelly stuff I am reading on here - clears the players of any responsibility for their lack of ability to perform under match conditions against determined opposiiton - too often.

We rw going backwards the sky is falling balh blah blah - play Dow...

zzzzzzzzzz

Kick straight u win
Awesome explanation of how the teams going. No need to do anything different, just kick straight & hit targets
By chance have u ever noticed when the players are engaged & playing a more open, free following style, they hit more targets & kick more goals? Funny that…

 

[Bostonian]

Here is some serious advice to you and all your type of 'fan' - If you are concerned about the past - consider following your own advice and choose a different team to be a 'fan' of- a 'winning team' who will repay your money and time with what you are seeking out of game.

Good luck and best wishes

Or we can stop enabling poor administration and poor hirings.

Fans like you never lead to any change.

You just make the club think they can keep getting away with serving up dross with no push back.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

Sloppy execution on the field during game time is the coaches fault - not the players actually executing ?

just LOLworthy

Read it mate. You're going too hard. I've already said it's both. Take a breath and recalibrate. It's not lolworthy to suggest train the way you play is a real and age old truth of sport.

Your wannabe macho muscling posting style is currently lolworthy as you can't see between who is being reasonable and who isn't anymore. It's just bam at anyone with their own opinion.

 

[Bostonian]

Sloppy execution on the field during game time is the coaches fault - not the players actually executing ?

just LOLworthy

It's the coaches fault for not training those faults out of the players and it's their fault for keeping on selecting the players who make the same mistakes game after game.

 

[JustaBattler]

Read it mate. You're going too hard. I've already said it's both. Take a breath and recalibrate. It's not lolworthy to suggest train the way you play is a real and age old truth of sport.

Your wannabe macho muscling posting style is currently lolworthy as you can't see between who is being reasonable and who isn't anymore. It's just bam at anyone with their own opinion.

Maybe take your own advice eh?

People post their 'feelings' on a forum should expect those with a differing view to response as a natural course...

 

[Blue1980]

Prendercast does a great job, wish more people in here would listen to it, they do go “against the grain” of some of our more prolific & vocal posters - who quite frankly don’t want to hear anything contrary to there view, which the Prendercast is. I believe there take is a lot more reasoned & accurate than most

I mean I was thinking what proof did we have the first half of last year wasn’t sustainable? We lose a game or two and decide to complete upend what worked for us first 10 rounds last year.

Like it’s almost seen as stone cold fact it wasn’t sustainable, when what has replaced it is producing a 40% win record, how much worse could it of been if we had just tinkered with what we were doing?

It’s like we threw the baby out with the bath water, and I do think the Freo win is Voss and Co’s template of how they want us to play all the time.

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

Maybe take your own advice eh?

People post their 'feelings' on a form should expect those with a differing view to response as a natural course...

I'm not calling your posts lolworthy. Before this tirade your opinions were often a favourite of mine but I think you're seeing red a lot so I don't appreciate being a target for saying effectively what you're saying but taking a wholistic approach instead of the shallow

'player play bad player must play better'.

I'm more interested in why they're playing bad, are they not owning their performances? Why not? Are they too arrogant, too soft? Too lazy? Why has that behaviour become a habit? Usually it's because the leaders and btw coaches and playing leaders count as 'leaders' have let the minimum standard slip.

Now the overnight success story is a myth and is always a result of unseen hard work - IE a delay in a desired result despite the hard work starting much earlier. Maybe that attitude was there and is being stamped out and now we're waiting or maybe it's still rife and out of control. What is a fact is you cannot know the root cause, and only a fool would be arrogant enough to believe they know why Mckay hasn't got a real routine yet. All we can do is point and say why - all I've done is pose questions as to why. I haven't come after Voss or anyone else to be sacked (except maybe Brad Lloyd).

Don't lump me in with the way you post or others.

 

[AndyLucimitis]

Agreed. Every training session/warm up I have watched over the past two years I see blokes kicking nonchalant soft ones to their teammates. Then in game/match sim when they are required to hit low drilled passes under pressure, they can't do it. I think there's an obvious way to improve this - practice.

It was a point Steven May made when he joined Melbourne after being at the Gold Coast Suns. He couldn't believe how intense training was at Melbourne. Said Goodwin wasn't really as concerned if players were even injured at training and that players could basically be dropped if they didn't train well.

 

[JustaBattler]

Kick straight u win
Awesome explanation of how the teams going. No need to do anything different, just kick straight & hit targets
By chance have u ever noticed when the players are engaged & playing a more open, free following style, they hit more targets & kick more goals? Funny that…

Some people have a problem with simple facts- that is why I limit their use so that they can be digested more easily. I see you don't respond to more full responses so instead of criticizing what is put with vague flourishes and gestures- why not address the facts?

Players playing with 'free flowing style' LOL I mean seriously? what is that kind of comment supposed to mean -0 as if coaching is constraining their set shot kicks to what - harnessed discomfort?

This is fun - I'll give it another half hour whilst I munch on my sandwich lunch and check out the Bond market shenanigans.

 

[HarryFlashman]

Some people have a problem with simple facts- that is why I limit their use so that they can be digested more easily. I see you don't respond to more full responses so instead of criticizing what is put with vague flourishes and gestures- why not address the facts?

Players playing with 'free flowing style' LOL I mean seriously? what is that kind of comment supposed to mean -0 as if coaching is constraining their set shot kicks to what - harnessed discomfort?

This is fun - I'll give it another half hour whilst I munch on my sandwich lunch and check out the Bond market shenanigans.

Ok, what was different between the 1st & 2nd half of the game, how would u describe what happened?

 

[JustaBattler]

Ok, what was different between the 1st & 2nd half of the game, how would u describe what happened?

I described what was happening and its effect in teh match thread in response to Jimmae...

it had NOTHING to do with player playing "more freely" btw and lot to do with a player actullhy kicking a goal followed by another and another...and then another and then another

oh and what Voss DID do - something which you and your CLub of mates failed to recognise or understand is change the structure of teh forward line to create discomfort in the settled game plan that teh doggies had - their defensive deficiencies made into wins in teh first half ONKLY because successive missed set shots and gettable in play goals were so badly missed

that is a coach trying everything he can to make up for the absolute disgrace in frin tof goal that was the first half..

you know plan B or whatever other nonsense people on here post and then. get likes for ..

 

[Juddernaut08]

I mean I was thinking what proof did we have the first half of last year wasn’t sustainable? We lose a game or two and decide to complete upend what worked for us first 10 rounds last year.

Like it’s almost seen as stone cold fact it wasn’t sustainable, when what has replaced it is producing a 40% win record, how much worse could it of been if we had just tinkered with what we were doing?

It’s like we threw the baby out with the bath water, and I do think the Freo win is Voss and Co’s template of how they want us to play all the time.

yeah, also I'm glad we can play defensively but why can't we play and switch gears?

Play quick football and score heavily ... play defensively if we need to preserve a lead or to stop a run on from the other team.

It's just about which method is our Plan A. At the moment I think they've flipped it the wrong way.

 

[HarryFlashman]

I described what was happening and its effect in teh match thread in response to Jimmae...

it had NOTHING to do with player playing "more freely" btw and lot to do with a player actullhy kicking a goal followed by another and another...and then another and then another

oh and what Voss DID do - something which you and your CLub of mates failed to recognise or understand is change the structure of teh forward line to create discomfort in the settled game plan that teh doggies had - their defensive deficiencies made into wins in teh first half ONKLY because successive missed set shots and gettable in play goals were so badly missed

that is a coach trying everything he can to make up for the absolute disgrace in frin tof goal that was the first half..

you know plan B or whatever other nonsense people on here post and then. get likes for ..

So we changed forward line structure & kicked more goals in a row. I understand now, there wasn’t a change in game style & method, thanks for explaining it, I feel foolish that I (& most of the footy watching world) were so badly mistaken

 

[smashbox gill]

We really need to bring in a leading teams type program - one without all the Adelaide footy camp stuff

 

[Bostonian]

Yout 20+ year point is correct.
The fans are impatient if they expect execution of a transition game plan in 30 games with a list that is devoid of kicking skills

If your players are devoid of certain skills then it's up to the coach to create a game plan around what their strengths are.

Not keep trying to push square pegs into round holes.

 

[Arr0w]

The Prendercast podcast, like most podcasts, are whingefest. Next to no analysis

 

[ajb72]

<in my opinion> For some reason our coaches are too scared to upset anyone, and don't hold highly "rated" players accountable.

There is no consequences for poor habits.

i don't necessarily think Voss is to blame (if playing the blame game). Too much not trying to offend anyone at Carlton and this has been going on longer than Vossy's tenure.

 

[HarryFlashman]

The Prendercast podcast, like most podcasts, are whingefest. Next to no analysis

Not at all, you’ve listened to the last few?

 

[TheBlueCampaigner]

There is no game plan that doesn't require players to execute skills under pressure that will win you games. Not being able to kick accurately at goals is the same as a golfer that has all the shots but can't putt. Not too many of them winning. Having said that though we may as well get in behind the boys and try to be supportive as no amount of bitching by anyone on here is going to change a damn thing.

 

[Arr0w]

Not at all, you’ve listened to the last few?

Yeap, no longer interested

 

[Michael Jezz]

Wasn't devoid of kicking skill at 8-2.

Poor kicking skills were masked by contested ball dominance and high I50 and time in possession but we could not transition the ball from the back half and had runs of goals scored against us. It was not a style that was sustainable and we missed finals.

 

[Michael Jezz]

If your players are devoid of certain skills then it's up to the coach to create a game plan around what their strengths are.

Not keep trying to push square pegs into round holes.

I don't agree. Players that can't execute basic kicking skills can not impliment any game plan. How about we delist a number of square pegs and draft round ones. It is time for player accountability after 20 yrs

 

[SkyhorseTamer]

Poor kicking skills were masked by contested ball dominance and high I50 and time in possession but we could not transition the ball from the back half and had runs of goals scored against us. It was not a style that was sustainable and we missed finals.

Uh I think there's some over simplification going on here and conflating various elements - pies looked horribly skilled in bucks last season.

 

[Sector 7G]

There is no game plan that doesn't require players to execute skills under pressure that will win you games. Not being able to kick accurately at goals is the same as a golfer that has all the shots but can't putt. Not too many of them winning. Having said that though we may as well get in behind the boys and try to be supportive as no amount of bitching by anyone on here is going to change a damn thing.

The issue is that playing faster means there is more room to hit kicks. Once the zone has time to set up with slow you have thread the eye of a needle with every kick.

No-one was talking about how skilled the Pies were with there slow play under Buckley in 2021.