Mid Season 2002 All Australian Team...According to Telstras debacle of a site.

[StrengthThroughLoyalty]

Originally posted by Zombie
8 of the starting 18 are not in the top 8 teams.

Being a star in a bottom side a.ka Riewoldt for St.Kilda doesn't make you deserving of an AA spot just because you are the one shining light in a team playing like crap

using your logic bob skilton should never have won 1 brownlow medal never mind three. it can also be argued that a player is more recognised playing in a successful team and that it is easier to perform in a confident and successful team environment. the really great footballers perform no matter what the circumstances are and should be recognised for it regardless of whether the team is on the top or the bottom of the ladder.

the fact the reiwoldt is even being touted as an all australian after less than twenty games is a significant accomplishment for this kid.

 

[FreoRules]

Kaysee

The other reason that Port's other ruckman have those hit-outs is the fact that Primus has been injured which is another reason why i think at the moment he is behind Darcy. If I had the choice I would take Primus but at the moment Darcy is playing more consistent footy each week, just not when he is fit to play.

 

[Pies rock]

Tarrant ahead of A.Rocca?? Please...

 

[Voice of Reason]

Originally posted by dbhattarai
Yeah right Jod, if he's not as good as Jakovich now, he'll certainly be better than Jako in 3 or 4 years.

You may be right.

In which case he'll get 5 club best and fairests and 3 premierships medals.

Question is - for which club?

 

[Zombie]

Originally posted by FreoRules
Kaysee

The other reason that Port's other ruckman have those hit-outs is the fact that Primus has been injured which is another reason why i think at the moment he is behind Darcy. If I had the choice I would take Primus but at the moment Darcy is playing more consistent footy each week, just not when he is fit to play.

Primus is the most consistent ruckmen in the league despite of injuries which have only kept him out of a couple of matches.

If Primus was from a Victorian club he would be AA Ruckmen, no doubt. The gap between Primus and the likes of Darcy, King and White is huge. Play them 1on1 and Primus will absolutely destroy all of them, not only dominating the rucks but also picking up 20 possessions and kicking a crucial goal or 2.

Primus is better than any other Ruckmen who has played in the last decade, no Ruckman has dominated like Primus does. Darcy only gets the accolades because only himself, B.Johnson and N.Brown have perfromed this year. Port has about 15 players who have performed and so Primus has to "compete" for the limelight.

If Primus was playing for a Victorian club more of the commentators would recognise his abilities rather than just seeing him once with a back brace and stating primus has been injured for most of the season, he hasn't

 

[noodle]

Originally posted by dbhattarai


WTF is that meant to mean? Eagles have only won one more game than the Dockers.

Pssst dbhattarai, i think that it might be a troll.

Don't look now but you appear to have a hook hanging out of your mouth.

 

[Macca19]

Originally posted by Jars458
Ben Hart should be an absolute certainty

Can play tall or short and only ever gets beaten by Matthew Lloyd

and Gavin Wanganeen.

 

[Jars458]

Originally posted by Macca19


and Gavin Wanganeen.

who?

 

[Port01]

Have to wonder how Kent Kingsley cant get a forward pocket.

What else does he have to do?

 

[Macca19]

Originally posted by Jars458


who?

the guy whos killed u in 3 or 4 showdowns

 

[Portia]

The absence of Port players from the original selection likely explains why we're under relatively little cap pressure for a top four side. No one rates our players.

 

[Bulldog1954]

Originally posted by Zombie


If Primus was from a Victorian club he would be AA Ruckmen, no doubt. The gap between Primus and the likes of Darcy, King and White is huge. Play them 1on1 and Primus will absolutely destroy all of them, not only dominating the rucks but also picking up 20 possessions and kicking a crucial goal or 2.

Primus is better than any other Ruckmen who has played in the last decade, no Ruckman has dominated like Primus does. Darcy only gets the accolades because only himself, B.Johnson and N.Brown have perfromed this year. Port has about 15 players who have performed and so Primus has to "compete" for the limelight.

Primus doesn't get the 20 possessions you say he does, he is averaging 13 and 4 marks a game. Darcy is averaging 21 disposals and 6 marks. And don't give us the drivel about Primus not being selected because he's from an interstate club, he was after all the All Australian ruckmen last year. And Primus doesn't kick a goal or 2, as of round 11 he had 5 in 10 games and only 42 in 115 games

And how can you say only Darcy, Johnson and Brown are performing? Does the name Scott West ring a bell? He's only averaging 27 possessions a game

 

[Jars458]

Originally posted by Macca19


the guy whos killed u in 3 or 4 showdowns

That must be why they call my Lazarus

Killed four times and still going

 

[jod23]

Originally posted by FreoRules
I think the more relevant stat here to settle the Jakovhc/Pavlich debate would be looking at the long kicking vs. short kicking.

Jakovich like Cousins is renowned for a lot of easy possessions by running by players and each team needs players like that but you will see that Jakovich rarely kicks the ball more than 30m thus he will and should have less errant kicks while Pavlich tends to clear the ball longer than 50m when he does get it.

Stats, Damn Stats and Lies....

And Jod23, how can you say that Pav is not going to be better than Jakovich. It is early to tell and if does become as good I will have no problem but there is no doubt that Worsfold and McKenna made Jakovich look so much better....

Jakovich has changed his game over the years...you'll notice that when Jako was Pavlichs age he too was breaking lines running with the footy and kicking long. Jakovich storming up the ground with the footy tucked up under the arm was a regular occurence pre knee reco.

Oh and i dont think either Jakovich or Cousins are renowned for easy possesions....they are however both renowned for being amazingly skilled, courageous footballers??

Its easy to know that Pavlich wont be as good as Jakovich, Jako before the reco was going to be widely known as the best CHB possibly of all time. He certainly did slow down a little after the injury which is sad but Jakovich is one of the greats of AFL. I doubt Pavlich will get that far....how many Club B&F's has he won? 4? Thats not playing for Freo ... he won those playing with McKenna, Lewis, Whoosha, Kemp, Sumich, Mainy, Matera....greats of the game. He won these during a very successful run for West Coast. Thats class....Pavlich will never go down in history as being a better footballer than Jakovich.

 

[jod23]

Originally posted by Danny Chook Fan Club
Andrew Siegert very unlucky to miss.

Heheheh Class...

 

[Mead]

Originally posted by dbhattarai


I've just picked out some players here and done a ratio in terms of kicks and clangers. Obviously, the higher the figure, the more efficient you are. There are plenty of players with worse ratios that I didn't include.

Kicks to clangers ratio:

McKernan 73/42= 1.73
Ottens 75/32= 2.34
Darcy 114/41= 2.78
Black 135/37= 3.65
Wirrapunda 128/29 = 4.41
Crawford 179/39 = 4.59
Pavlich 152/33= 4.61
Buckley 204/44= 4.64


What do you have to say to that Mead??

I honestly don't know if this is the case, but is it possible to be statted with a clanger off a handball? just wondering...?
Anyhoo what I say to that is as follows- Of all the players you've mentioned, only one has played mostly as a defender this year- pav- and as I said, it is far less permissible for a defender to make mistakes than a midfielder or forward. What might be more enlightening would be to do ratios for a range of HBs and FBs around the league?

 

[dbhattarai]

Anyway, forget the stats, I don't recall remember Pavlich making to many mistakes. He has probably missed his target from the kick ins about 3 or 4 times during the whole season to date. And Pav moves up the ground, plays forward and in the midfield so he could have just as well accumulated his clangers up the ground.

I think Leppitch is a player similar to Pavlich, as he provides good run from half back, plays forward at times and can move up the ground. Just having a look at Leppitsch's stats, he has a worse ratio than Pavlich.

Leppitsch: 79/18 = 4.39
Pavlich: 152/33 = 4.61

I'll pick out 8 or 9 other top defenders, and add it to the list...Just so we can compare it to other defenders (although there roles for their team are different to that of Pav and Leppitsch).

Jonathon Hay: 47/20 = 2.35
Andrew McKay: 115/30 = 3.83
Adam Goodes: 138/35 = 3.94
Justin Leppitsch: 79/18 = 4.39
Jason Cloke: 83/18 = 4.61
Matt Pavlich: 152/33 = 4.61
Lenny Hayes: 118/25 = 4.72
Brett Montgomery: 110/23 = 4.78
Darren Gaspar: 82/16 = 5.12
Glen Jakovich: 127/22 = 5.77
Dustin Fletcher: 127/19 = 6.68

Not a lot in it Mead. And clangers can be a very misleading stat...if you kick it forward 20 metres in search of the boundary line and it goes over the line, isn't that counted as a clanger?

 

[dbhattarai]

Originally posted by jod23

Pavlich will never go down in history as being a better footballer than Jakovich.

Is it just me, or is this a stupid comment? Jod, if you havn't noticed, Pavlich hasn't finished his career and we won't be able to prove your statements for another 12 years. You can't say he'll never be as good. He's done nothing to suggest he won't be every bit good as Jakovich, if not better. I know Jakovich has been an absolute champion, but he won't be remembered as an all time great.

 

[jod23]

Originally posted by dbhattarai


Is it just me, or is this a stupid comment? Jod, if you havn't noticed, Pavlich hasn't finished his career and we won't be able to prove your statements for another 12 years. You can't say he'll never be as good. He's done nothing to suggest he won't be every bit good as Jakovich, if not better. I know Jakovich has been an absolute champion, but he won't be remembered as an all time great.

He's done nothing to suggest that he will even be close to Jako by the end of his career. I also have news for you, Pavlich wont be remembered as an all time great either, at least Jako gets close and without the knee probably would go down as an all time great.

This is a stupid conversation, putting poor Pav up against Jakovich. Its like comparing Bill Cartwright to Michael Jordan....

 

[jod23]

Originally posted by dbhattarai


Darren Gaspar: 82/16 = 5.12
Glen Jakovich: 127/22 = 5.77
Dustin Fletcher: 127/19 = 6.68

Thats class..

 

[Fall Out Boy]

Originally posted by Port01
Have to wonder how Kent Kingsley cant get a forward pocket.

What else does he have to do?

Play for Sydney?

 

[AFLTN]

If it is such a debacle of a site how come you keep going there?
What about the Herald Sun site - oh we read that in the paper this morning, or the Real Footy site - sorry the AGE has also been read.
What a debacle.

 

[funky_monk]

Originally posted by jod23


He's done nothing to suggest that he will even be close to Jako by the end of his career. I also have news for you, Pavlich wont be remembered as an all time great either, at least Jako gets close and without the knee probably would go down as an all time great.

This is a stupid conversation, putting poor Pav up against Jakovich. Its like comparing Bill Cartwright to Michael Jordan....

Come on! Bill Cartwright had the all-time weirdest foulshooting technique of all time.

Like I said before, and no weagles person replied to me. Pav is a better player because he is a lot more versitile. During his career Pav would have the opportunity to be all australian FB, CHB, CHF and FF ( while playing occassionally on the wing and in the centre). Pav is a crunch plyer who can change the course of a game with a play or two. Remember first year Pav outmarking Jako near the boundary line and kicking a goal near the end of 3 qtr time in the demolition derby? Or his take out of the ruck and goal vs Essendon this year? Or his flood-breaking goal against Carlton? Jako simply can not have that much influence on a game.

Jako is from an old and soon to be extinct breed. The one position player.

Regardless of stats Pav has not been beaten this year. Pre-saeson Tredrea = no goals, Ottens = 1 goal, Rocca = 1 goal, Nietz = maybe 1 or 2 (off the top of my head).

Also (and this is my favourite) if Jako was such a great leader then why was he never captain? (its not because he's an arrogant boof-head is it? ). Thats another reason why Pav will be better. He is a leader of men. Jako wanted to be captain so much it hurt, had 3-5 years left to play, 4 b&f, vocal on and off the field and the weagles said nahhhhh!

 

[TheRealBuzz]

Jako became a one-position player after he did his Knee.

He played Centre Half Forward for South Freo and did a lot of ruck work in his early years at the Eagles.

Pavlich is currently a terrific player, but nowhere near the form of Jako in his prime (93-96). During that time he was unpassable at CHB and regularly embarrassed one of the greatest CHF the game has ever seen (Carey).

It remains to be seen whether Pav can reach that level, but there's nothing to suggest he can't.

As for the captaincy. That was another result of the two wonderful years that Judgey spent at our club. If Mick had stayed, or Woosha was in charge, then Jako would be captain.

As it is, he is still a terrific leader.

 

[funky_monk]

Originally posted by TheRealBuzz
Jako became a one-position player after he did his Knee.

He played Centre Half Forward for South Freo and did a lot of ruck work in his early years at the Eagles.

Pavlich is currently a terrific player, but nowhere near the form of Jako in his prime (93-96). During that time he was unpassable at CHB and regularly embarrassed one of the greatest CHF the game has ever seen (Carey).

It remains to be seen whether Pav can reach that level, but there's nothing to suggest he can't.

As for the captaincy. That was another result of the two wonderful years that Judgey spent at our club. If Mick had stayed, or Woosha was in charge, then Jako would be captain.

As it is, he is still a terrific leader.

Damn you Buzz! Just when I start getting fired up you have to go be all common-sensical and level-headed.

Pav is not as good as Jako in his prime but to say he will never be as good when Pav is 20 is crazy. Pav is still a more versitile player than Jako...ever. Footy has changed a lot since Jako was a youngster.

Just out of couriosity Buzz. Why do you think Jako wasn't made co-captain with Cousins this year? I know a lot of eagles fans (don't tell anyone) who think that Jako should be captain.