Mitch McGovern 2: As The Worm Turns (read the OP)

[Betts are off]

Pyke to me is like a soul less corporate manager. A dull speaker who could not motivate me at his best.

He actually started cracking quite a few jokes this year in press conference’s. I think he was definitely hesitant year 1 to let his personality out, but it’s starting to come through.

I’d imagine he’s a completely different bloke behind closed doors.

 

[Scorpus]

Hawthorn must be toxic too, lost best player in the comp in franklin, Brad Hill wanted out after only a few years, heaps of their assistant coaches have left, Cyril hated them enough to retire mid season!!

Amidoinitrite?

Sydney are totally toxic, Jetta bailed on them, Tippett retired early, Hannebery wants out, Rohan, they lost Tom Mitchell....

IreckonIgotit

Collingwood -Beams, Langdon this year wants out and they nearly won, Fasolo jumped....

Westcoast - Lycett has bailed, must be toxic, Sam Mitchell left halfway through contract, defs toxic, i heard Natanui deliberately tried to injure his good knee just so he didn't have to be around the group its that bad, they coerced Jetta to drink and didn't discourage him from driving. Toxic-est club of all. Almost lost Gaff to lolnorf..

All of these clubs have won flags in the last 10 years and made multiple grand finals so I'm guessing they are far less upset about retention

 

[AFC979810]

Hawthorn must be toxic too, lost best player in the comp in franklin, Brad Hill wanted out after only a few years, heaps of their assistant coaches have left, Cyril hated them enough to retire mid season!!

Hmmmm... Yeah 2 best 22 players left in Buddy and Hill...Thats over the same period we lost 8 best 22 players we wanted to keep. Hmm Cyril retiring? Piss poor example. Using assistant coaches? Cmon now brah.

Amidoinitrite?

Not so far.

Sydney are totally toxic, Jetta bailed on them, Tippett retired early, Hannebery wants out, Rohan, they lost Tom Mitchell....

3 required players leaving in Jetta,Hannebery, Mitchell. Once again - retirement doesn't really fit this argument. Rohan? The guy they just traded for pick 61? Not really a required player.

IreckonIgotit

I don't think you quite get it yet, pal.

Collingwood -Beams, Langdon this year wants out and they nearly won, Fasolo jumped....

So Beams and Fasolo. Langdon still there at the moment.

Westcoast - Lycett has bailed, must be toxic, Sam Mitchell left halfway through contract, defs toxic, i heard Natanui deliberately tried to injure his good knee just so he didn't have to be around the group its that bad, they coerced Jetta to drink and didn't discourage him from driving. Toxic-est club of all. Almost lost Gaff to lolnorf..

You are getting better at this!!! Only one player (Lycett) in this list and a few 'almost'.

So to summarize your argument:

Adelaide loses - Bock, Gunston, Tippett, Dangerfield, Davis, Lever, Cameron and McGovern.

Collingwood, Sydney, West Coast and Hawthorn COMBINED lose - Brad Hill, Franklin, Hannebery, Mitchell, Jetta, Beams, Fasolo, Lycett.

We lose 8 stars and required players. 4 teams you listed COMBINED lose 8 stars and required players.

But we don't have a problem with player retention. Nope - everyone acknowledges except for good old Carmo. We are just the only club to draft money hungry twats.

Hope your ass doesn't get too sun burnt this summer considering it looks like you will be keeping your head in the sand.

 

[footy4ever]

I have a little (unproven)theory that there was a little schism developing between the old guard (Tex, Sloane, Talia, Lynch) who see themselves as club first guys that are the leaders and stars (they are) and the McGovs (lever) thought that they should have had more stature. Gibbs friction May have not been about money but pecking order.
Kinda millennials wanting to be CEOs from day 1 with no hard yards.

If true, you don’t need that in your list, it’ll poison the well

I’ve always had the nose-out-of-joint syndrome hovering in the back of my mind re Gov.

 

[AFC979810]

You find individual reasons because they are all there. Brushing over them doesn’t make them any less relevant.

No - people find individual reasons because it is easier to blame a player for greed rather than acknowledge that our club has one of the worst retention rates for required players in the AFL.

Bottom line is if there’s something toxic with us then there’s something toxic with every single club in the modern free agency and trade era!

So its just bad luck that we have a worse rate of retention? I call poppycock.

 

[Jars458]

No - people find individual reasons because it is easier to blame a player for greed rather than acknowledge that our club has one of the worst retention rates for required players in the AFL..

Have you got the stats on list turn over in the last decade? We re-signed 19 players this year. I am not sure we are that bad but would like to see the stats.

 

[Croweater23]

But then look at pittard signed a 3 year deal and port ship him out after 1 year.

This is also a reflection of their poor list management - see Lobbe & Hartlett (attempted)

 

[Carmo]

Hmmmm... Blah blah
Not so far.



Blah



Blah


Blah


Blah Blah.

So to summarize your argument:

Blah blah blah blah.

A grade hissyfit mate

umm my list of players wasn't exhaustive, just ones I could quickly recall and those were easy, i bet there's plenty more...

the best club at finding and developing talent is probably going to be the one that loses the most, unsurprisingly...

im merely highlighting that you focus on excessively on the negatives associated with adelaide and not enough with other clubs.

i'd say youre a pessimist mixed with a grass is greener, so my parting comment will be to wish you an unhappy day and to see heaps of things that everyone else has that's better than your lot, hopefully that makes your day

 

[Crow Envy]

Hmmmm... Yeah 2 best 22 players left in Buddy and Hill...Thats over the same period we lost 8 best 22 players we wanted to keep. Hmm Cyril retiring? Piss poor example. Using assistant coaches? Cmon now brah.



Not so far.



3 required players leaving in Jetta,Hannebery, Mitchell. Once again - retirement doesn't really fit this argument. Rohan? The guy they just traded for pick 61? Not really a required player.



I don't think you quite get it yet, pal.



So Beams and Fasolo. Langdon still there at the moment.



You are getting better at this!!! Only one player (Lycett) in this list and a few 'almost'.

So to summarize your argument:

Adelaide loses - Bock, Gunston, Tippett, Dangerfield, Davis, Lever, Cameron and McGovern.

Collingwood, Sydney, West Coast and Hawthorn COMBINED lose - Brad Hill, Franklin, Hannebery, Mitchell, Jetta, Beams, Fasolo, Lycett.

We lose 8 stars and required players. 4 teams you listed COMBINED lose 8 stars and required players.

But we don't have a problem with player retention. Nope - everyone acknowledges except for good old Carmo. We are just the only club to draft money hungry twats.

Hope your ass doesn't get too sun burnt this summer considering it looks like you will be keeping your head in the sand.

Well said but I have to correct you on some players, Swans are happy for Hannebery to go and Fasolo couldn’t get a game. Beames left because his dad was dying and news has broken this morning that he wants to return to Collingwood.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Have you got the stats on list turn over in the last decade? We re-signed 19 players this year. I am not sure we are that bad but would like to see the stats.

After a shit year .....injuries galore, camps, internal discontent (apparently) with everyone wanting out ....this year, we have the least number of any AFL clubs for contracted players wanting out

 

[AFC979810]

A grade hissyfit mate

Thank you. I would like to commend you for trying - even though the result was a rather shallow and terrible post that completely missed the mark.

umm my list of players wasn't exhaustive, just ones I could quickly recall and those were easy, i bet there's plenty more...

Wish you had put the time into a more exhaustive list. Maybe try again?

the best club at finding and developing talent is probably going to be the one that loses the most, unsurprisingly....

I don't argue that we are fantastic at finding and developing talent. That is true. We are terrible at retaining talent. Which is why we haven't won a flag since 1998. Everytime we have looked to be building a great list - we have sustained terrible loses.

im merely highlighting that you focus on excessively on the negatives associated with adelaide and not enough with other clubs.

Not Negatives (plural). Just negative (singular). Our player retention. Its the biggest problem at our club. Probably another big problem with your post is that you compared us to teams that have won flags in the past 11 years - when our retention problem really started.

i'd say youre a pessimist mixed with a grass is greener, so my parting comment will be to wish you an unhappy day and to see heaps of things that everyone else has that's better than your lot, hopefully that makes your day

Interesting. I am not sure where that comes across. I think we are a well run club. Top 7 easily. We are not a top echelon club though - and this is mostly due to our clubs culture and so many of our good players wanting out.[/QUOTE]

 

[simmo97]

No - people find individual reasons because it is easier to blame a player for greed rather than acknowledge that our club has one of the worst retention rates for required players in the AFL.


So its just bad luck that we have a worse rate of retention? I call poppycock.

we have a problem with retention but some people can't accept that some of those players were leaving no matter what.

Dangerfield was going to return home to Geelong at Some point no matter what the club did.
Bock and Davis got offers that would of been irresponsible to match.
Gunston was only here for 2 years so was probably always leaving at the end of 2011 the minute he was drafted.

 

[AFC979810]

Have you got the stats on list turn over in the last decade? We re-signed 19 players this year. I am not sure we are that bad but would like to see the stats.

I don't think its so much the amount of players that come and go.

I understand that every club has players that leave due to family reasons, homesickness, more money, more opportunity, dont like the coach, etc.

What gets to me is the absolute quality "MUST KEEP" players that we lose compared to the good clubs. We are as bad, if not worse than the expansion clubs. I just can't believe that people still don't believe its an issue. Just look at the names. Bock, Gunston, Tippett, Danger, Davis, Lever, Cameron, McGovern. Thats a hell of a list.

 

[boffo]

We seem to be a club that rewards senior loyal players very well (Tex, Sloane, Talia).

We are not a club that recruits from other clubs by offering over the top contracts.

Nor do we match over the top contracts offered to any of our players. Do we really want Lever and McGovern to be our highest paid players?

A club has to have a pay structure based on a well thought out policy, not 'pay them what they want if they threaten to leave, we cannot lose any players' approach. That would be a shambles.

 

[simmo97]

I don't argue that we are fantastic at finding and developing talent. That is true. We are terrible at retaining talent. Which is why we haven't won a flag since 1998. Everytime we have looked to be building a great list - we have sustained terrible loses.

no the reason we have not won a flag since 98 is because the players played shit after half time in the 2017 GF.

 

[AFC979810]

We seem to be a club that rewards senior loyal players very well (Tex, Sloane, Talia).

We are not a club that recruits from other clubs by offering over the top contracts.

Nor do we match over the top contracts offered to any of our players. Do we really want Lever and McGovern to be our highest paid players?

A club has to have a pay structure based on a well thought out policy, not 'pay them what they want if they threaten to leave, we cannot lose any players' approach. That would be a shambles.

So how do the other clubs do it? Why have we lost more stars than West Coast, Freo & Port Adelaide.

 

[FR0GGY]

This is also a reflection of their poor list management - see Lobbe & Hartlett (attempted)

Yes but it shows clubs can also do what they want.

 

[Betts are off]

No - people find individual reasons because it is easier to blame a player for greed rather than acknowledge that our club has one of the worst retention rates for required players in the AFL


So its just bad luck that we have a worse rate of retention? I call poppycock.

1) Have you looked up the AFL retention rate for each club? If that's what you're basing this entire argument on then you're working off a incorrect assumption that we are the worst in player retention over that span.
2) Most of the 'retention problems' you are quoting happened under a different administration, and dates back to 2010. Which if you knew your history is the start of the expansion era. Most of which have since retired (coincidentally the only 2 active players from that trade period, Sam Jacobs and Kyle Cheney).
3) If you're pissed about losing 8 players in 8 years, without taking into account the players we brought in and the trade value we received back, then you need to pay more attention to the modern AFL landscape.

No-one likes losing good players but we dont live in a world where we can pay everyone limitless money. And we follow a game where players have unrivaled power to change clubs at will. If you would prefer to constantly refer to a hypothetical blanket issue as apposed to assessing each situation on its merit then unfortunately that's your problem!

 

[Crowbots are dead]

I’ve always had the nose-out-of-joint syndrome hovering in the back of my mind re Gov.

A mate of mine has met him a few times. Massive tickets on himself.

 

[jo172]

So how do the other clubs do it? Why have we lost more stars than West Coast, Freo & Port Adelaide.

How many stars have Port and Freo had to lose?

 

[jo172]

FWIW I think the whole retention thing comes back to being perennially competitive. Means we're always near the maximum of the cap and always vulnerable to someone coming over the top with a substantially larger monetary offer.

Aside from Gunston, all the departing "stars" were reportedly offered substantially larger deals than what we offered them.

WCE/Fre/PA have all had significant bottoming out periods.

 

[AFC979810]

No-one likes losing good players but we dont live in a world where we can pay everyone limitless money. And we follow a game where players have unrivaled power to change clubs at will. If you would prefer to constantly refer to a hypothetical blanket issue as apposed to assessing each situation on its merit then unfortunately that's your problem!

No - I get the realities of the AFL landscape.

Do me a favor and name me some clubs that have lost the quality we have? Do I have to repeat the names?

 

[AFC979810]

FWIW I think the whole retention thing comes back to being perennially competitive. Means we're always near the maximum of the cap and always vulnerable to someone coming over the top with a substantially larger monetary offer.

Aside from Gunston, all the departing "stars" were reportedly offered substantially larger deals than what we offered them.

WCE/Fre/PA have all had significant bottoming out periods.

But we aren't always near the cap. The same year we were trying to keep Danger - we had a multi million dollar offer out to Cameron.

Not saying that this is wrong. Our Salary Cap structuring may be a part of our lack of being able to keep required players. I think its more culture based.

 

[BunjiMC]

No - I get the realities of the AFL landscape.

Do me a favor and name me some clubs that have lost the quality we have? Do I have to repeat the names?

Maybe we lose quality players because we have so many quality players. Our drafting is elite. We have lost all those players and are still pushing for a flag.

What else could we do??

 

[AFC979810]

Maybe we lose quality players because we have so many quality players. Our drafting is elite. We have lost all those players and are still pushing for a flag.

What else could we do??

Find a way to keep them.

We have made one grand final since 1998 - which we lost by 50 points. Last year we didn't make the finals. In the last 10 years since we have had so many quality players we have made two prelims.

If you were talking about Sydney, West Coast, or Hawthorn - I could stomach it.