MRP / Trib. MRP and Tribunal - 2024 - Grand Final

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LukeParkerno1 said:
Yep, now the Bedford one is more borderline as he did twist to the side to mitigate impact a fair bit. They are not going to like Cameron almost going for a piledriver and not mitigating impact.
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The difference is there is a ball in the middle between Cameron and Duggan and Charlie's trying to win holding the ball. He's going to hold him as tight as possible so the ball doesn't come out.

Straight after Duggan goes down Charlie stands up and does holding the ball action to Umpire. His intent was never to let Duggan dispose off the ball so he will definitely be going for the bear hug, especially when the opposition player is already hugging the ball and there is nowhere else to grip when you're tackling front on.
 
p4p1 said:
There doesn't seem to be one current or ex-AFL player that agrees with you.
From what I have seen, J Brown, Buckley, Yeo, Gerard Healy, Tim Kelly, Josh Dunkley etc.
The only people I have seen that agree with your POV are Michael Christian, John Ralph and a bunch of nuffies on social media.

Now to the little bolded but, have you played more games than Duggins own teammate Elliot Yeo who in this (https://thewest.com.au/sport/west-c...n-tackle-wrong-tim-kelly-weighs-in-c-15370062) article states
“He didn’t slam his head in the ground, he didn’t do anything.

“Unfortunately he just fell because Duggy tried to shake the tackle... what is he supposed to do, let him out of the tackle?”
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Waiting for West Coast supporters to tell Elliott Yeo how he's so wrong.
 
mpal6 said:
Waiting for West Coast supporters to tell Elliott Yeo how he's so wrong.
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Dude, surely you must see how obeanie’s experience in suburban footy trumps the collective insight of the current and former players who have come out in droves to criticise the way the AFL is handling the tackling issue.
 

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mpal6 said:
The difference is there is a ball in the middle between Cameron and Duggan and Charlie's trying to win holding the ball. He's going to hold him as tight as possible so the ball doesn't come out.

Straight after Duggan goes down Charlie stands up and does holding the ball action to Umpire. His intent was never to let Duggan dispose off the ball so he will definitely be going for the bear hug, especially when the opposition player is already hugging the ball and there is nowhere else to grip when you're tackling front on.
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There was zero duty of care shown to Duggan could have easily gone to the side and still done the motion. You show no duty of care and concuss a bloke it’s goibg yo be a suspension has been all season
 
LukeParkerno1 said:
There was zero duty of care shown to Duggan could have easily gone to the side and still done the motion. You show no duty of care and concuss a bloke it’s goibg yo be a suspension has been all season
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When the player you are holding is twisting and trying to shake out of tackle, you are going to hold on harder - he's trying to win holding the ball and Duggan is trying everything possible to drop the ball between them.

There is no twist or turn controlled by Charlie there, he's firmly holding on to Duggan stopping the ball from coming out. When Duggan fell backwards, Charlie fell with him.
 
mpal6 said:
When the player you are holding is twisting and trying to shake out of tackle, you are going to hold on harder - he's trying to win holding the ball and Duggan is trying everything possible to drop the ball between them.

There is no twist or turn controlled by Charlie there, he's firmly holding on to Duggan stopping the ball from coming out. When Duggan fell backwards, Charlie fell with him.
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Exactly he should have twisted in order to provide the duty of care that’s reasonable in todays game he had 4 whole steps to do it
 
I see Tim Kelly has defended Charlie Cameron too.

The AFL is really flying in the face of public and industry opinion on the Bedford and Cameron tackles.

Didn’t mean they aren’t going to uphold the ban, but we are definitely at the most significant test cases we’ve had yet that will have a seismic effect on what the game looks like in the future.
 
Round 18

MRO:

Friday

Nothin'.

Saturday

Umpires get beaten up.

1721110466295.png

Sunday

Everyone beats up on everyone else.

1721110514663.png

Tribunal

The AFL advises the Tribunal will sit tonight, Tuesday July 16, to determine the incident involving Alex Davies, Gold Coast SUNS, Toby Bedford, GWS GIANTS and Charlie Cameron, Brisbane Lions.

Dayne Zorko, Brisbane Lions, and Tristan Xerri, North Melbourne will also challenge their sanctions through a Written Submission to the Tribunal with the outcome to be communicated Thursday 18th July.

All other players accepted their sanctions for the Match Review of Round 18 of the 2024 Toyota AFL Premiership Season.

AFL Tribunal, Tuesday 16 July 4:00pm AEST:

The incident involving Brisbane Lions' Charlie Cameron and West Coast Eagles' Liam Duggan during the Second Quarter of the Round 18 match between Brisbane Lions and West Coast Eagles will be determined at the Tribunal.

AFL Tribunal, Tuesday 16 July 6:30pm AEST:

The incident involving GWS GIANTS' Toby Bedford and Richmond's Tim Taranto during the Fourth Quarter of the Round 18 match between GWS GIANTS and Richmond will be determined at the Tribunal.

AFL Tribunal, Tuesday 16 July 7:45pm AEST:

The incident involving Gold Coast SUNS' Alex Davies and Port Adelaides' Lachlan Jones during the First Quarter of the Round 18 match between Gold Coast SUNS and Port Adelaide will be determined at the Tribunal.
 
LukeParkerno1 said:
Exactly he should have twisted in order to provide the duty of care that’s reasonable in todays game he had 4 whole steps to do it
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Maybe I’m blind but can you please explain at what point you are counting the four steps from. Because from my perspective there are only three steps at most, and more importantly, within one step of making the tackle, Charlie has already lost traction and is going for a ride as Duggan pulls in the other direction.

He’s barely able to make contact with the ground with even the tips of his toes.

I am struggling to see any step after the first one where Charlie has anything close to sufficient control or traction in order to have enough leverage to “drive” Duggan forward, let alone generate torque required to initiate a “twisting action” on Duggan.

Watch Charlie’s feet carefully. Then after that, look at Duggins feet, legs and arms and see who is really dragging the tackle in that direction.

Then see how it all comes crashing down when Duggan loses balance on that Optus turf.

 
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LukeParkerno1 said:
Exactly he should have twisted in order to provide the duty of care that’s reasonable in todays game he had 4 whole steps to do it
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Charlie is bearhugging Duggan firmly. There is no room for Charlie to twist, turn etc it'll drop the ball between them. Duggan lost his footing and Charlie went with him.

If Duggan stayed still rather than try to wriggle out of tackle, none of this would've happened. Duggan initiated the actions which caused the fall, which is why Umpire didn't even pay a free.
 
You can clearly Duggan initiates the movement backwards as Charlie's legs are in no position to start pushing Duggan backwards. Then you can see Charlie trying to get proper footing while Duggan continues to drive backwards with his legs and Charlie holds on to try and complete the tackle.

The fact Duggan hits his head is a total accident. There has to be allowances in the game for fair tackles which result in a head knock, not to be a suspendable.

If Charlie gets done for that, it basically means any fair tackle which results in a head knock needs to be a 3 week suspension.
 
Hollow Knight said:
Maybe I’m blind but can you please explain at what point you are counting the four steps from. Because from my perspective there are only three steps at most, and more importantly, within one step of making the tackle, Charlie has already lost traction and is going for a ride as Duggan pulls in the other direction.

He’s barely able to make contact with the ground with even the tips of his toes.

I am struggling to see any step after the first one where Charlie has anything close to sufficient control or traction in order to have enough leverage to “drive” Duggan forward, let alone generate torque required to initiate a “twisting action” on Duggan.

Watch Charlie’s feet carefully. Then after that, look at Duggins feet, legs and arms and see who is really dragging the tackle in that direction.

Then see how it all comes crashing down when Duggan loses balance on that Optus turf.

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That video makes "excessive force" argument all the more ridiculous. while Charlie is bearhugging as far as upper body is concerned, he's hanging on barely by foot and doesn't even get proper footing on the ground.

People who think he's generated momentum behind his swaying feet, while it's also in the process of getting tangled alongside Duggan must be dreaming at best.
 

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greatwhiteshark said:
Not with you on this, should of turned, should of done something else. The AFL are in a fantasy land thinking players can do all these things.
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I disagree. See I think the AFL should insist that Cameron pull off a 360 kick flip as well as turning Duggan in mid-air. These are highly tuned athletes. The laws of physics are a mere footnote in what they can do
 
Maddo11 said:
Reading the tweets about Cameron's defence, I agree with him. Watch his left arm, he's clearly trying to pull Duggan closer but Duggan twisting and pulling away causes them both to go over.
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Ump should have blown whistle straight away imo once they were together and ball trapped in between.

The umps have a duty of care to all players, as they control the game that’s occurring. The AFL has failed the umps and players, with all the confusion of what’s right and wrong and then puts all the blame on the players.

Neither act was violent or out of the spirit of the game imo, and I think the punishment is way over the top, but maybe I’m too old school.

Accidents happen, AFL can’t control gravity. MRO/MRP should not be using slow-mo replay, life doesn’t work in slow-mo, especially this fast game. They should only be able to judge on the same speed as the player. This isn’t a punch or eye gouge or violent act.

Rant over.
 
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Reasons:



We find that in tackling his opponent in the way he did, Cameron engaged in rough conduct.



Almost immediately after Duggan picked up the ball, Cameron ran to Duggan and wrapped his arms around him in a tackle.



He had both of Duggan's arms pinned and the ball was locked in between them.



Contrary to Cameron's evidence, we consider the vision clearly captures Cameron taking Duggan to ground.



He used the right side of his body to forcefully drive Duggan backwards. Duggan managed to avoid being immediately driven to the ground by taking a few steps backwards and turning to the side. However, under the continued force being applied, Duggan then lost his feet and landed heavily on his back with his head hitting the ground.



It is the combination of the excessive force used in driving Duggan backwards with both of his arms pinned that makes the tackle unreasonable in the circumstances.



Those two features put Duggan in a highly vulnerable position. He had no opportunity to try to protect himself. If he wasn't driven backwards with such force, then there would have been opportunity for him to try to control the way he landed.



If his arms weren't held, then there would have been opportunity for him to try to use an arm or shoulder to cushion his landing.



For these reasons, we uphold the charge.
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greatwhiteshark said:
No it's not. The sheep will turn up in big numbers again this weekend. They don't care about the game. It could be round ball tomorrow and they will still show up.
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Yeah, the game is cooked, the AFL corporation isn’t.
 

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