2nds Official Swans Academy Thread (Player News and Discussion)

[BloodySwan]

Then northern states are working harder at growing the game faster than the traditional AFL states, yet we get frowned upon for having first dibs on any rare talent that may come out of it. So after 10 years of funding & resources & perhaps 6000 kids trying out (guesstimate) in that time, we have Heeney, Mills & Blakey.

Meanwhile Geelong keep going after former Geelong boys like Ablett, Danger, Dalhaus, and the media think it's fantastic.

 

[Formguide]

How many former academy players are playing in the Afl at the moment not including Sydney. That shows changes need to be made to all aspects of the program.

 

[BloodySwan]

How many former academy players are playing in the Afl at the moment not including Sydney. That shows changes need to be made to all aspects of the program.

Not enough, AFL in Sydney has come a long way but there's a lot further still needed to go. Sydney have been pretty adamant about signing academy players and not letting them go

 

[SGBeach]

The nsw / qld teams and in particular the Swans are doing a fantastic job at expanding the game, making it a truly national game. The AFL is making truck loads of money partly due to our investment and hard / smart work. This work should be applauded and rewarded!

 

[Blood red]

Not enough, AFL in Sydney has come a long way but there's a lot further still needed to go. Sydney have been pretty adamant about signing academy players and not letting them go

Not enough, AFL in Sydney has come a long way but there's a lot further still needed to go. Sydney have been pretty adamant about signing academy players and not letting them go

The nsw / qld teams and in particular the Swans are doing a fantastic job at expanding the game, making it a truly national game. The AFL is making truck loads of money partly due to our investment and hard / smart work. This work should be applauded and rewarded!

But the fact is it is not.
Players are not viewed as their traditional afl state counterparts are.
They fly under the radar for old boys schools and TAC cup players.
Even the clubs overlook their own in the attempt to find players.
They have a breeding ground of players who are skilled and tough. Who play against men from 16 or 17, but who seem to be forgotten in the attempt to turn a Vic kid into something special in 3 years time.
It's crazy. But the best path to the AFL is to head south to be noticed, because the Northern academies seem more interested in what their southern talent scouts see then what is right under their own noses.
And if the Allies coaches and selectors keep picking teams of individuals rather then a team to win, you will continue to see kids slide off draft boards like this year because of the beatings they take.
Yes, the Northern academies are improving the quality of AFL in the local comps, but they are really not transferring that into players who play in The AFL.

 

[SGBeach]

But the fact is it is not.
Players are not viewed as their traditional afl state counterparts are.
They fly under the radar for old boys schools and TAC cup players.
Even the clubs overlook their own in the attempt to find players.
They have a breeding ground of players who are skilled and tough. Who play against men from 16 or 17, but who seem to be forgotten in the attempt to turn a Vic kid into something special in 3 years time.
It's crazy. But the best path to the AFL is to head south to be noticed, because the Northern academies seem more interested in what their southern talent scouts see then what is right under their own noses.
And if the Allies coaches and selectors keep picking teams of individuals rather then a team to win, you will continue to see kids slide off draft boards like this year because of the beatings they take.
Yes, the Northern academies are improving the quality of AFL in the local comps, but they are really not transferring that into players who play in The AFL.

I was commenting on the expansion of the game to a national level. The Academys a just a part of this. The AFL is making more money because of this, and so, should be rewarding and encouraging the success of teams that are working so hard for the benefit of the game and all involved.

On your point of young players in Sydney not getting the same recognition as their Melbourne counter parts, Things are better now than 10 or 5 years ago.

Also, an example of the work the Swans are doing which flys under the radar..
2000 kids turn up to an all schools carnival in Sydney. Rugby League, Rugby Union and Soccer send their stars to promote their code to these 7/8 yo kids. The Swans send Buddy. At the end of the Carnival, 2000 kids want to play Aussie Rules. Thanks Buddy, great job!

 

[melbournehammer]

But the fact is it is not.
Players are not viewed as their traditional afl state counterparts are.
They fly under the radar for old boys schools and TAC cup players.
Even the clubs overlook their own in the attempt to find players.
They have a breeding ground of players who are skilled and tough. Who play against men from 16 or 17, but who seem to be forgotten in the attempt to turn a Vic kid into something special in 3 years time.
It's crazy. But the best path to the AFL is to head south to be noticed, because the Northern academies seem more interested in what their southern talent scouts see then what is right under their own noses.
And if the Allies coaches and selectors keep picking teams of individuals rather then a team to win, you will continue to see kids slide off draft boards like this year because of the beatings they take.
Yes, the Northern academies are improving the quality of AFL in the local comps, but they are really not transferring that into players who play in The AFL.

This is true and it is something I've been pondering. And yet I do have a few questions. The under 16 programs here wouldn't be any better than the programs the academies would do - and when the academies play against the NAB sides they seem to do all right.

Yet equally from the NAB sides - I think there are 12 sides in Victoria - you rarely get more than 3-4 drafted per year. When you add the 20 or so from the SA and WA teams what we are really looking at is this question

is the academy kid better than the 5th best NAB listed victorian kid ?

I don't know the answer to it, but I am aware that for all the talent spotting and investment in NAB teams down here the return is equally anaemic - and these are the kids who have been in rep teams since 14, NAB clubs since 15, and school teams - doing 3-4 trainings per week and 2 games a week from 14-16 and then even more thereafter.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

For all the effort the Club puts in inc efforts to improve the quality of local junior coaching, Crouch says we are still behind the quality of programs in footy stronghold States. (Heard him on SEN a couple of months ago).

 

[SGBeach]

For all the effort the Club puts in inc efforts to improve the quality of local junior coaching, Crouch says we are still behind the quality of programs in footy stronghold States. (Heard him on SEN a couple of months ago).

Makes total sense.. Schools and clubs (and familys) in Vic have a long history and depth of knowledge / culture that we are building up here. But yes we are building.

 

[Blood red]

Makes total sense.. Schools and clubs (and familys) in Vic have a long history and depth of knowledge / culture that we are building up here. But yes we are building.

Jared Crouch?
If the head coach believes the swans academy is behind, would that not be an indictment on the coaching?
Maybe there in lies the issue?!
This years 18s group has been discribed as the greatest depth ever. So if so few are acknowledged at draft time, then maybe they need to review the program and all staff involved?
Some selections that are put fwd at all levels, TAC, NEAFL and Allies make people scratch their heads. But it seems that some opinions are placed higher then talent.

 

[Ralphyboy]

For all the effort the Club puts in inc efforts to improve the quality of local junior coaching, Crouch says we are still behind the quality of programs in footy stronghold States. (Heard him on SEN a couple of months ago).

I am pretty sure that Chris smith believes passionately that the academy is a better program than TAC


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[Blood red]

I am pretty sure that Chris smith believes passionately that the academy is a better program than TAC


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Hmmm.
Unfortunately he isnt the one picking players for AFL teams.
Recruiters seem more intent on the traditional states.
So as good as a kid is, unless Shehan decides you're a gun, players are seen as lessor.
So it matters not what Chris Smith thinks for the players, because unless they get a real crack at the best in the TAC cup and a fair shake at Allies selections, they will not be taken as seriously by Vic recruiters.
How many talent scouts come to NEAFL games?
Now compare that to how many go to Vic private school boys games.
There is no comparrison to the hardness and physicality of the games, but they sing the praises of the few dominating against skinny kids, and not even taking notice of those making their mark against men.
If the Swans were serious, they would take 1 draftee from interstate, and build a home grown team from their academy because they believe in their processes.
That won't happen, so is it better for the kids to go show their skills off down south? Because they are damned if they do and damned if they dont!

 

[Nool Carpenna]

If the Swans were serious, they would take 1 draftee from interstate, and build a home grown team from their academy because they believe in their processes.

100% with you on that!

 

[Blood red]

The Swan's academy must be happy with the whole Draft process.
Not ONE academy member invited to the Draft combine.
Allies selections, playing U17s or the game structure/coaching/management of such a talented squad to blame?
A total slap in the face for all involved!

 

[robbieando]

The Swan's academy must be happy with the whole Draft process.
Not ONE academy member invited to the Draft combine.
Allies selections, playing U17s or the game structure/coaching/management of such a talented squad to blame?
A total slap in the face for all involved!

4 clubs need to nominate a player so that they get an invite to the combine. There will be the state screening later on for the players each club wants tested.

The Swans have no control over this process and would've nominated academy players they're interested in. 3 (or less) clubs didn't follow suit to get that player the invite.

 

[Blood red]

4 clubs need to nominate a player so that they get an invite to the combine. There will be the state screening later on for the players each club wants tested.

The Swans have no control over this process and would've nominated academy players they're interested in. 3 (or less) clubs didn't follow suit to get that player the invite.

Yep I get that.
23 Vic Metro invited, 7 Allies.
Results of Nats were similar, but 3x the invites.
Swans are responsible for coaching and putting forth names for Allies.
Allies games lost invites for some.
Others played way out of depth.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

I find this mystifying.

 

[melbournehammer]

Jared Crouch?
If the head coach believes the swans academy is behind, would that not be an indictment on the coaching?
Maybe there in lies the issue?!
This years 18s group has been discribed as the greatest depth ever. So if so few are acknowledged at draft time, then maybe they need to review the program and all staff involved?
Some selections that are put fwd at all levels, TAC, NEAFL and Allies make people scratch their heads. But it seems that some opinions are placed higher then talent.

can you provide a bit more detail - i know that it can be difficult to properly describe things particularly if different kids futures are at stake - but I'm interested in what sorts of things appear to be holding back the squad from your perspective.

 

[Blood red]

can you provide a bit more detail - i know that it can be difficult to properly describe things particularly if different kids futures are at stake - but I'm interested in what sorts of things appear to be holding back the squad from your perspective.

No, wasn't suggesting that.
There was a comment the Crouchy made a comment on SEN about how the program is behind the traditional states (Bloodied 52).
My point is that if the progam is not as good, isn't it Crouchy who is responsible to fix it?
And if he isn't, then why isn't he?
No. Won't cast doubts over any individuals.

 

[swansfan51]

How is this a bad thing? If the players are great and not invited to the combine, it means other clubs aren't aware of them and we can pick up incredible bargains.

If they aren't good enough, then it doesn't matter that they weren't invited.

 

[Blood red]

How is this a bad thing? If the players are great and not invited to the combine, it means other clubs aren't aware of them and we can pick up incredible bargains.

If they aren't good enough, then it doesn't matter that they weren't invited.

That's all good for the club, but for players who have trained their dates off since u11s they too have career aspirations.
Swans are not the only club on their radar, but they can only take 3 or 4 at most and forget the rest?

 

[SGBeach]

That's all good for the club, but for players who have trained their dates off since u11s they too have career aspirations.
Swans are not the only club on their radar, but they can only take 3 or 4 at most and forget the rest?

I saw some of these kids play in the neafl on the weekend,, they went pretty good
So why don't we draft them with 5th round picks?

 

[Blood red]

I saw some of these kids play in the neafl on the weekend,, they went pretty good
So why don't we draft them with 5th round picks?

I hope they do.
This group goes about 10 deep of quality players.
So keeping them under the radar leaves several looking elsewhere, but never being looked at.

 

[DST]

The Swan's academy must be happy with the whole Draft process.
Not ONE academy member invited to the Draft combine.
Allies selections, playing U17s or the game structure/coaching/management of such a talented squad to blame?
A total slap in the face for all involved!

Not surprising, this years Sydney academy pool looks deeper than previous years but is not at the top line like a Heeney, Mills or Blakey.

But in the end we might end up taking up to 4 academy players for later picks or rookie selections that end up playing a lot of senior football and become solid footballers.

Oh and next year we will have at least two at the combine, both with top 20 pick aspirations.


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[DST]

I saw some of these kids play in the neafl on the weekend,, they went pretty good
So why don't we draft them with 5th round picks?

Personally not fussed with this crop not going to the national combine.

Along with a potential top 4 pick, this group of academy players are the kind of solid role players that you can build a successful top 4 side with.

Think of the great role players like Ben Matthews, Nick Smith, Nic Fosdike, LRT, Jared Crouch. These are the players that bring team success.


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