Opinion Politics (warning, may contain political views you disagree with)

[Square Peg]

Such is the fear of being labelled a bigot for not accepting this view, that commonsense is overridden, in all levels of society. Minority opinions rule, in the name of “fairness”. Ask yourself how this has come about.

I don't think it's anything new, and to be fair it isn't restricted to the left either, blasphemy and treason laws were brought in to ban critics of the church and crown for this reason. When you suspect you can't win an argument on it's merits, you try and win by silencing your critics

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

I think transgender athletes not being allowed to compete against women is one of the topics that the majority of left-leaning / progressive people agree with. There might be a few vocal minority that say otherwise but they are definitely the minority.

Like the left does with some things, it's one of the things the right tries to beat-up to make the left looked stupid, because quite frankly, there is absolutely no sound reasoning behind allowing it. Competing against others in competitive sport (of any level) isnt really a right so missing out is just one of the shitty things transgender people have to deal with unfortunately.

I do remember some guy ringing up 6pr one time saying there is no proof men are better than women at sport and it's entirely cultural. Poor Karl had to do everything in his power not to call the guy a complete moron.

 

[Taylor]

I wish I could figure a way to implant an arrogant surety in the minds of all men because your potential is borderline superhero compared to mine.

It's like watching my mum drive a super car 5km/h under the speed limit.

I think everyone should hit their athletic peak at some point in their lives, be it running like mine, or lifting weights, or swimming or climbing mountains. Especially men.

I feel like everyone owes it to themselves to find out what their best physical self is.

 

[stax on the mull]

If you are coming from a POV based solely on emotion there's not much more to be said.

More that if it was a sporting issue about times and results then the appropriate place for it would be in the non-AFL discussion thread since the swimmer in question was abiding by the rules of the competition.

But it was posted here as a political issue with no context and I have already made my point about how outlier issues are used to dumb down politics - and Gaines's part in that.

Maybe its deluded of me to imagine that 99%+ of the worlds population goes about their day not even thinking about what times Lia Thomas is swimming in the pool.

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Maybe its deluded of me to imagine that 99%+ of the worlds population goes about their day not even thinking about what times Lia Thomas is swimming in the pool.

Indeed. And only a low percentage think about women's sport in general, sport being traditionally men's domain until relatively recently. Women's sport was established for the purpose of enabling women to compete against each other, fully aware that their achievements in speed, strength, and endurance won't generally be comparable to those of men. I'm sorry transwomen find themselves caught between two worlds but that shouldn't give them a free pass into women's spaces, including sport.

 

[poshman]

More that if it was a sporting issue about times and results then the appropriate place for it would be in the non-AFL discussion thread since the swimmer in question was abiding by the rules of the competition.

But it was posted here as a political issue with no context and I have already made my point about how outlier issues are used to dumb down politics - and Gaines's part in that.

Maybe its deluded of me to imagine that 99%+ of the worlds population goes about their day not even thinking about what times Lia Thomas is swimming in the pool.

Are you saying that because no many people think about it we shouldn’t care?

How does that principle work for other sports or issues?

 

[BanjoRules]

There might be a few vocal minority that say otherwise but they are definitely the minority.

Have you noticed how much disproportionate power minorities wield these days ?

Interested to hear your thoughts?

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

Have you noticed how much disproportionate power minorities wield these days ?

Interested to hear your thoughts?

I'm not going into a minorities versus others discussion because it would require too much thought in wording things correctly so I dont paint a picture I dont want to paint and it would be in posted / written form which is effectively permanent IMO.

As a side step to your question which is sort of linked, my biggest gripe with society is how people are encouraged to be a victim because being a victim gives you power and most importantly attention and in 2023, thanks to a decade plus of social media conditioning, attention is everything. And unfortunately, when everyone is a victim, the actual victims are the ones hurt the most because they are drowned out / made irrelevant. It's not a minorities vs others issue, its a "I need to be a victim issue"

 

[Episode IV]

Well said.
Although to clarify one thing, most of the time it isn't what one says that is the problem, but rather the misrepresentation of it.

Some of the replies around here remind one of the attempted restoration of Ecce Homo, with a decidedly more malicious intent than was evident in that specific instance.

 

[Kram]

Have a look at the SRP board some weirdo’s on there actually do think the feelings of one person is more important.

There's a guy going around on there repeatedly calling Lidia Thorpe and Jacinta Price "dogs" because they are against the voice. Oh yeah and 'Uncle Tom'.

 

[Square Peg]

There's a guy going around on there repeatedly calling Lidia Thorpe and Jacinta Price "dogs" because they are against the voice. Oh yeah and 'Uncle Tom'.

It's interesting, this stuff. Imagine the outcry if it was a Liberal premier this week that said the following about the indigenous youth currently on their antisocial criminal rampage through regional Australia

"Parents need to parent. The state is not a parent. Parents need to parent"

“And we can’t make excuses as to why people don’t parent. The more you make excuses, the more people won’t do it.”

“The idea that’s only ever the state’s responsibility self-perpetuates the problem”.

Old Tony Abbott must wonder where the Twitter outrage has disappeared to, years after he was castigated for his common sense observation that we'll never close the gap if people live in remote communities well away from schools, jobs and services because of their lifestyle choices. That comment seems pretty mild by comparison, yet are the shrill calling McGowan deeply disturbing and highly offensive for his comments this week, as Abbott was called?

 

[poshman]

It's interesting, this stuff. Imagine the outcry if it was a Liberal premier this week that said the following about the indigenous youth currently on their antisocial criminal rampage through regional Australia

"Parents need to parent. The state is not a parent. Parents need to parent"

“And we can’t make excuses as to why people don’t parent. The more you make excuses, the more people won’t do it.”

“The idea that’s only ever the state’s responsibility self-perpetuates the problem”.

Old Tony Abbott must wonder where the Twitter outrage has disappeared to, years after he was castigated for his common sense observation that we'll never close the gap if people live in remote communities well away from schools, jobs and services because of their lifestyle choices. That comment seems pretty mild by comparison, yet are the shrill calling McGowan deeply disturbing and highly offensive for his comments this week, as Abbott was called?

Surely he was labelled a bigoted, racist degenerate. Surely there have been calls for his resignation for his blatantly racist behaviour?

You just have to be on one side of politics and social media and the free to air media is more than fine with you.

Having said that. I agree with him and it shouldn't even be controversial, although if it was a liberal premier it would be the end of the world.

 

[Square Peg]

Surely he was labelled a bigoted, racist degenerate. Surely there have been calls for his resignation for his blatantly racist behaviour?

You just have to be on one side of politics and social media and the free to air media is more than fine with you.

Having said that. I agree with him and it shouldn't even be controversial, although if it was a liberal premier it would be the end of the world.

I agree with him too. I also agree that if a LNP premier had said it, all he'll would break loose.
We've had now about thirty years of destructive Aboriginal policy based on a cultivation of victimhood and, to borrow the famous line from US politics, the soft bigotry of low expectations. I think it's encouraging to hear McGowan say this,.
Although I don't agree with much of her extreme rhetoric or proposed solutions, I also think Thorpe is a breath of fresh air because at least she's talking about war and black empowerment and taking back the country, not sitting there talking about how us blacks are all victims that need the government to do more for us.

 

[Kram]

McGowan under fire for fierce attack on parents of regional towns

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

Regrettably all parents are under fire; youth crime is at an all-time high, especially here in Queensland. The juveniles are from all ethnic groups, although Aboriginal kids are over-represented in regions of high Aboriginal population. It's easy to criticise and true, there are many cases of neglect or dysfunctional families. But kids these days are faced with all sorts of pressures, distractions and influences that past generations didn't have to deal with. They want to fit in with their peers, be admired, and often the best way they find to gain acceptance and respect is to do something daring, outside the law - and of course, brag about it online. They have lost (or never had) the ability to motivate themselves to a personal achievement as this earns no kudos from the peer group. Schools are failing to engage them or provide for them. The workforce has no jobs for them. They are told Australia is a horrible place and the world is doomed anyway.

Building more and bigger jails seems like an ugly solution to me.

Of course, many, even most parents, do a great job in the face of all this, and many, most, kids get through, although we hear more about the miscreants who cause havoc.

 

[stax on the mull]

Are you saying that because no many people think about it we shouldn’t care?

How does that principle work for other sports or issues?

My comment was about how social media clips of minor events are propagated with the help of the news fodder that reports on it. Both the Gaines clip and the Thunberg clips a few pages back are examples of that - though the latter not as the poster would like to imagine it is.

Its the use of isolated incidents that are often falsely described and are sourced from a propagandist intent, aided by a steady stream of repetition and stitched together over time to create the illusion that there's some uncontrolled sinister force destroying people lives. The reality is most people go about their lives never encountering "transmania" or whatever other dumb-arse labels we are being told to be outraged about. I engage with some of these fearful people online and they tell me that its going to change the entire fabric of society.

Example: This Sky "News" story has to bingo card hits of "trans" and "lefties" based on a clip of a couple of horses that for whatever reason - maybe a reaction to the colours or the paint or chalk or somehing - walked around a rainbow flag. The reporter Rita Panahi posts hundreds of "trans" clips per week on her twitter feed and here bizarrely the quotation "transphobic horses" are actually her own words that she used when she posted the clip, though as it appears in the headline, Sky News wants to attribute it to others. What she calls "lefties losing it" is just people letting her know that she is a moron.



Its just the classic bigot politics of finding a new minority group to blame something on. Transphobia seems to have more traction in the US than Australia - but you can see the shift here. Local nutjob Kirralie Smith for instance now almost exclusively focuses her agenda on fear of trans people, whereas 5 years ago it was Halal certification.

 

[Taylor]

It's very dangerous being the latest group to get the special protection of one side of politics with the target on you from the other.

They'll both ignore you when they've used you up.

 

[Square Peg]

I've always suspected the horse community of being transphobic. They won't even let geldings run in the Oaks, when clearly a stallion that asks for his testicles to be cut off should be allowed to race against the fillies. I think this Rita might be on to something.

 

[Bicco]

Is there a better way to kill inflation than raising interest rates?

Instead of raising interest rates to kill spending, there are more creative ways to manage inflation, writes Gareth Hutchens.

www.abc.net.au

I find this really interesting. Especially considering that the current inflation in prices we are experiencing is mainly being driven by companies simply charging more. Oil companies being the obvious example.
The costs of reducing inflation is being borne by mortgage holders (generally speaking) when they are not the cause of the problem.

 

[Bicco]

I'm not going into a minorities versus others discussion because it would require too much thought in wording things correctly so I dont paint a picture I dont want to paint and it would be in posted / written form which is effectively permanent IMO.

As a side step to your question which is sort of linked, my biggest gripe with society is how people are encouraged to be a victim because being a victim gives you power and most importantly attention and in 2023, thanks to a decade plus of social media conditioning, attention is everything. And unfortunately, when everyone is a victim, the actual victims are the ones hurt the most because they are drowned out / made irrelevant. It's not a minorities vs others issue, its a "I need to be a victim issue"

While I partly agree with the final paragraph, I think what is happening with the advent of social media is that many groups who have lived in the shadows of society have now come out into the light. This is very uncomfortable and confronting for those who were quite happy to keep them there. I agree that media highlights 'outrage' as a selling point. But it has to be said that many of these groups are actually victims of different forms of abuse/discrimination by significant parts of the community. Same sex marriage as an example was illegal some states until recently. So the discrimination was enshrined in law. That has changed but many peoples attitudes haven't. Many who are claiming to be victims really are. Of course there are those who will abuse this sympathy, as no doubt the responders to this post will highlight.

 

[Snuffaluphagus]

While I partly agree with the final paragraph, I think what is happening with the advent of social media is that many groups who have lived in the shadows of society have now come out into the light. This is very uncomfortable and confronting for those who were quite happy to keep them there. I agree that media highlights 'outrage' as a selling point. But it has to be said that many of these groups are actually victims of different forms of abuse/discrimination by significant parts of the community. Same sex marriage as an example was illegal some states until recently. So the discrimination was enshrined in law. That has changed but many peoples attitudes haven't. Many who are claiming to be victims really are. Of course there are those who will abuse this sympathy, as no doubt the responders to this post will highlight.

Yes, I’d agree with that but I think that was a few years ago. We’ve reached the point now where people want to be a victim, want to look for a reason to be slighted because it’s an easy way for attention and sympathy and people are conditioned to be seeking it. It’s really damaging to the those groups because it gives an easy out for bigots and the whatnots to just ignore or discredit the actual victims. I don’t really think there’s any solution to that either unfortunately

 

[Square Peg]

Is there a better way to kill inflation than raising interest rates?

Instead of raising interest rates to kill spending, there are more creative ways to manage inflation, writes Gareth Hutchens.

www.abc.net.au

I find this really interesting. Especially considering that the current inflation in prices we are experiencing is mainly being driven by companies simply charging more. Oil companies being the obvious example.
The costs of reducing inflation is being borne by mortgage holders (generally speaking) when they are not the cause of the problem.

It is an interesting idea, but wouldn't he have more credibility if he was arguing for the government to use the tried and true effective tool it already has at it's disposal to fight inflation - fiscal restraint, aka stop spending so much effing money?

 

[poshman]

My comment was about how social media clips of minor events are propagated with the help of the news fodder that reports on it. Both the Gaines clip and the Thunberg clips a few pages back are examples of that - though the latter not as the poster would like to imagine it is.

Its the use of isolated incidents that are often falsely described and are sourced from a propagandist intent, aided by a steady stream of repetition and stitched together over time to create the illusion that there's some uncontrolled sinister force destroying people lives. The reality is most people go about their lives never encountering "transmania" or whatever other dumb-arse labels we are being told to be outraged about. I engage with some of these fearful people online and they tell me that its going to change the entire fabric of society.

Example: This Sky "News" story has to bingo card hits of "trans" and "lefties" based on a clip of a couple of horses that for whatever reason - maybe a reaction to the colours or the paint or chalk or somehing - walked around a rainbow flag. The reporter Rita Panahi posts hundreds of "trans" clips per week on her twitter feed and here bizarrely the quotation "transphobic horses" are actually her own words that she used when she posted the clip, though as it appears in the headline, Sky News wants to attribute it to others. What she calls "lefties losing it" is just people letting her know that she is a moron.

View attachment 1605005

Its just the classic bigot politics of finding a new minority group to blame something on. Transphobia seems to have more traction in the US than Australia - but you can see the shift here. Local nutjob Kirralie Smith for instance now almost exclusively focuses her agenda on fear of trans people, whereas 5 years ago it was Halal certification.

The image above is clearly satire aimed at people who think if you ask any questions or raise any concerns you must be transphobic. I have no idea about all the rest or how many she does a week. I would think it a mighty effort to do hundreds. I could check but I think you mean this is a regular tactic and I will believe you on that front.

I haven't made large claims only specific ones. You are making the logical mistake of not arguing the specifics but pointing to the large in what could be called the same manner that you are against above.

I have a niece who was forced to share a change room with a biological male who said they were a female and had a very real penis that was erect while in said change rooms (UK). When there was a complaint can you guess what happened? This is in no way claiming this would be representative of all Trans people. Principles have been thrown out the window in this debate.

My questions were about a biological male in swimming. And you reply with comments about caring so much. What is the principle there? If it doesn't affect me why should I care?

Let us take that principle and apply it elsewhere. What would that look like? If someone is homeless but I have a home should I not care? If someone is hungry and my family has plenty, should I not care? When I fundraise for shelters and hospitals in the third world, would you suggest that I tell people 'well if you don't think about it and it doesn't affect you, don't give?'

What exactly have I blamed on Trans people? I don't think a Biological male should play in female sports. Argue just that case. It is this type of strawman that both sides rely on to stop good conversation.

As to everything else, they should be looked after, cared for and people should be as caring and kind as possible to the extent it does not harm others. That is the same principle we apply to everyone else in society. In that way principles are safe as they care not for intersectionality or class or socio economic standing. I am convinced that is the way to care for all as well as possible.


So back to the original question - what logical argument is there to allow biological males into female sports?

I will ask another - what logical argument is there to allow biological males into female prisons?

 

[poshman]

Is there a better way to kill inflation than raising interest rates?

Instead of raising interest rates to kill spending, there are more creative ways to manage inflation, writes Gareth Hutchens.

www.abc.net.au

I find this really interesting. Especially considering that the current inflation in prices we are experiencing is mainly being driven by companies simply charging more. Oil companies being the obvious example.
The costs of reducing inflation is being borne by mortgage holders (generally speaking) when they are not the cause of the problem.

Some of the ideas are worth discussing but not many. Could the author of the article used more emotive, equity and other intersectional bingo terms?

If I was at a conference my bingo card would have been full in the first few paragraphs.

Look at the language and tell me if he is making good faith arguments or if he is appealing hard to emotions?

Let is look at the infantile first paragraph:


We have to stop this insanity.

The way we use interest rates to control inflation is socially destructive, unfair and inefficient.

Under our current system, when the Reserve Bank thinks there’s too much inflation in the economy, it lifts interest rates.

By lifting rates, it's forcing households with mortgages to hand over more of their money to their banks, via higher interest payments, so those households have less money to spend at the shops so inflation will hopefully fall.

But for households caught in that situation, it feels like a form of stealing. Why should banks get more of your money?

_______________________

Socially destructive, unfair and inefficient. This meant from an 'Analysis' piece, not an 'opinion' piece. Then followed by the inference that the RBA just thinks there is too much inflation so they then destroy unfairly society and of course this feels like a form of stealing.

I dislike the RBA and the whole process. But make a good argument. As soon as I saw the link was ABC I thought, 'would be surprising if with wasn't Keneysian and didn't encourage more gov control somehow'... Turns out I was not surprised.

Why should banks get more of your money... those evil evil banks. Should banks not give loans? Everyone who signs up to a loan knows about interest rates and that they may increase. But now the banks are stealing your money? Juvenile rubbish. And I dislike most banks.

______________________

Now for the authoritarian nonsense to get us hating the rich...

'And the saving effort could be spread more evenly across households (depending on each household's ability to save), rather than the saving burden falling disproportionately on households with mortgages'.

What do you think he means? I mean this all so unfair and those evil people who are richer than us should help us because it was their decision for us to have multiple streaming services and have credit cards and spend like our governments example, with a reckless indifference to future consequence. No thought to the economy or other problems with that idea. Can you think of any?

The middle class people I know who have paid off their mortgage, when they got Covid money, do you know what they did with it? Invested or saved. Do you know what most of my mates with mortgages and car loans did? Dipped into super and used the money to get swimming pools. This example is why the gov wanted people to spend money rather than save. To stimulate the economy.
______________________

I have been writing about interest rates here for months and months. I care, I have the track record to prove it. Go back through my posts. This article is garbage. There is no personal responsibility and there is no discussion of the excess spending from the government state and federal (both parties).

I know people who are mortgage free. Do you know what they didn't do that my family and mate I love did? They didn't do big holidays every year. They didn't get car loan after car loan. They didn't get new things all the time. They ate out far less, often didn't do presents for birthdays and spent about 100% less on presents than those with mortgages have.

Our family income is high. It hasn't always been and we suffered massive loss through Covid lock downs. Massive. Great friends of mine spend twice to three times my yearly spend. I sat with many of them and showed them what would happen when rates increased, offered encouragement and help. I have tried to encourage on here as well. 1 couple out of ten changed anything. My brother just says he 'isn't lucky like me' despite the fact he has been on 4x the amount of oversees trips I have in the last decade (not including business/work trips which suck balls generally), has had four new cars in that period. I drive a 2012 car and will drive my wife's car when it is time to get her a newer one. Obviously, I adore my brother. Should I have to have money withheld from me now when I have withheld it for the last decade? Should I have to limit my spending now because others preferred to party than save?

The other thing this article doesn't take into account, is human nature. And the history of governments world wide. The divisive rhetoric in this article points to it. If something or someone is stealing, what should be done?

There is a saying 'there is nothing so permanent as a temporary measure'. When the government takes more control for a season, they rarely give it back or give it back for long. People like the exercise of power far too much.

TLDR: guy is a socialist hack who is fear mongering rather than discussing what people need to think about in their daily life. This is authoritarian nonsense which is sadly fitting for the ABC. Personal responsibility is not mentioned. Not once. Just that this all feels like stealing. The moron has to say feels like because it isn't and he knows it. He is relying on the readers emotive victimhood to render them senseless.


The left or middle left is not included in that statement.

 

[poshman]

It is an interesting idea, but wouldn't he have more credibility if he was arguing for the government to use the tried and true effective tool it already has at it's disposal to fight inflation - fiscal restraint, aka stop spending so much effing money?

No, don't you see, fiscal restraint is not responsible and only someone invested in inequity and unfairness would suggest it.