Training Preseason 22-23

[Mofra]

If we do find our midfield lacking this year at least it’s the easiest line in footy to stock up with mature talent from other clubs. The extra early picks we have secured for 2023 will be handy to go shopping for mature bodies.

I think we're ok as long as we find a more defensively minded option, which apart from Libba we should get from Garcia and McLean.

If we're set on a mid, 2x firsts for Finn Callaghan....

 

[Norm De Guerre]

TBH I don't think it will be one player - a combination of McLean, Garcia and CD will make up any difference

I know it's fashionable to take a giant runny shit on what Dunkley brought to our side in recent years. However I think it's under appreciated how much his ability to mark and goal was instrumental to our sides recent relative success. The only player who has been better in this regard is the best player in the side and the difference between the two in this regard is statistically insignificant. We really need to find a way to wring more goals out of our at times reluctant midfield to score. Jack Macrae Im talking about you!

I suspect this is why we have doubled down on tall forwards with the recruitment of Lobb. And why we will see Weightman rotating through the middle more than any of the aforementioned players. He and to a lesser extent Toby McLean are best suited to play the role of being that marking, goal kicking mid.

It's going to be interesting to see whether we have the balls to risk the unpredictability and energy that Weightman has brought to the forward line by throwing him into the midfield. I can't recall us doing it with him to any extent thus far during a season proper. If it does end up being Mclean. I look forward to the football loving public of Bigfooty collectively losing their minds every time he gets a free kick in the middle of the ground.

 

[ossie_21]

I think we're ok as long as we find a more defensively minded option, which apart from Libba we should get from Garcia and McLean.

If we're set on a mid, 2x firsts for Finn Callaghan....

A first and a sweetener at best, unless he’s playing some serious games and performing well

 

[Libbaaaa]

You would think the Tanner Bruhn deal set the market for someone like Callaghan, keeping in mind he has barely played.

 

[doggies ftw]

You would think the Tanner Bruhn deal set the market for someone like Callaghan, keeping in mind he has barely played.

bruhn was a pick 12 though whilst Finn was pick 3. Pick 3 with only two years under his belt should still take a significant deal to part ways with - but yeah I’d like to see a bit more from him this year before the talk of 2x first rounders come up. He is out of contract and GWS have Jmac at the helm, don’t think they’ve ever got market value for a player (neither did we under Jmac)

To be fair though our first rounders could both be late teens so it will change dramatically from this point depending on where they end up and how his year goes IMO

 

[dogwatch]

I know it's fashionable to take a giant runny s**t on what Dunkley brought to our side in recent years. However I think it's under appreciated how much his ability to mark and goal was instrumental to our sides recent relative success. The only player who has been better in this regard is the best player in the side and the difference between the two in this regard is statistically insignificant. We really need to find a way to wring more goals out of our at times reluctant midfield to score. Jack Macrae Im talking about you!

I suspect this is why we have doubled down on tall forwards with the recruitment of Lobb. And why we will see Weightman rotating through the middle more than any of the aforementioned players. He and to a lesser extent Toby McLean are best suited to play the role of being that marking, goal kicking mid.

It's going to be interesting to see whether we have the balls to risk the unpredictability and energy that Weightman has brought to the forward line by throwing him into the midfield. I can't recall us doing it with him to any extent thus far during a season proper. If it does end up being Mclean. I look forward to the football loving public of Bigfooty collectively losing their minds every time he gets a free kick in the middle of the ground.

It's a valid point, although Dunkley only kicked 11 goals from 27 games in 2020 and 2021. He did however kick 18 from 23 games in 2022, his B&F year. Across their careers our designated midfielders (incl recent departures, Dunkley & the also-much-maligned Hunter) have the following goals per game averages:

0.94 Bontempelli​

0.59 Treloar​

0.56 Dunkley (--> Bris)​

0.48 B Smith​

0.42 Hunter (--> Melb)​

0.37 Liberatore​

0.23 Macrae​

Not too many people would have guessed Hunter kicks more goals per game than Libba.

The Weightman experiment will be interesting to watch, if it happens. Not against it but would assume it's only for about one in 5 or 10 CBAs. Unless he unexpectedly tears it apart I expect he would still be primarily a forward.

The player I am keen to watch if he gets an extended run in the middle is Daniel. I've been happy enough with him in defence but agree that some opposition sides have worked out how to play through him and exploit his lack of height and kicking penetration. I reckon he could be a real chance for the B&F if played in the guts consistently this year and (don't laugh) even an outside chance for the Brownlow because he quickly catches the eye with his headgear and his lack of stature. So no need to dye his hair blond to get votes.

Interestingly for all his time deep in defence he still has a higher goals/game average than Jack Macrae (0.24 to 0.23) so he could easily be the one to take over Dunkley's share of the goals.

Whether he can take over Dunkley's share of tackles and 1%ers is another matter. He is undoubtedly stronger now than he was 5 years ago when he was easily brushed aside. Libba Sr was shorter than Daniel yet for years was one of the most prolific tacklers in the league. So height is no obstacle. In fact it may be an asset when playing "in and under".

As for the spread of goals I think it's important that the midfield makes a solid contribution and does so on a regular basis. Having 2 or 3 powerful KPFs can work wonderfully against a cellar dweller but if it's a monoculture it also carries a risk, for instance if the midfield supply is strangled or we come up against a well-disciplined and talented tall defence. This is also why it's important to have a Weightman, a McLean or a Clarke at the fall of the ball, chipping in regularly with goals. And a midfield contribution of course. Ten different goal scoring threats are much harder to counter than just 4 or 5.

 

[JJHunter]

C: Williams, Libba, Baker
F: English, Bont, Macrae
Int: BSmith, McLean

West named on a HFF and Garcia sub

Baker ? He is far from a walk up start.
Sorry but theres many reasons why he hasnt been able to secure a reguara spot.

Everyone also assumes that we will have all these guys at full fitness and health.
Any time genrally at least one or two of them will be injured.
And these guys are aging and wont be as regular as they have been in years past.

So to the original question yes - Im concerned about out midfield.
You dont just replace a best and fairest winner and hard ball beast that dunkley was.
Need only look closely at all he offered in the back half of last year.
Thats in and around the ball and even out on the wings.

 

[The Slitherin' Snake]

It's a valid point, although Dunkley only kicked 11 goals from 27 games in 2020 and 2021. He did however kick 18 from 23 games in 2022, his B&F year. Across their careers our designated midfielders (incl recent departures, Dunkley & the also-much-maligned Hunter) have the following goals per game averages:

0.94 Bontempelli​

0.59 Treloar​

0.56 Dunkley (--> Bris)​

0.48 B Smith​

0.42 Hunter (--> Melb)​

0.37 Liberatore​

0.23 Macrae​

Not too many people would have guessed Hunter kicks more goals per game than Libba.

The Weightman experiment will be interesting to watch, if it happens. Not against it but would assume it's only for about one in 5 or 10 CBAs. Unless he unexpectedly tears it apart I expect he would still be primarily a forward.

The player I am keen to watch if he gets an extended run in the middle is Daniel. I've been happy enough with him in defence but agree that some opposition sides have worked out how to play through him and exploit his lack of height and kicking penetration. I reckon he could be a real chance for the B&F if played in the guts consistently this year and (don't laugh) even an outside chance for the Brownlow because he quickly catches the eye with his headgear and his lack of stature. So no need to dye his hair blond to get votes.

Interestingly for all his time deep in defence he still has a higher goals/game average than Jack Macrae (0.24 to 0.23) so he could easily be the one to take over Dunkley's share of the goals.

Whether he can take over Dunkley's share of tackles and 1%ers is another matter. He is undoubtedly stronger now than he was 5 years ago when he was easily brushed aside. Libba Sr was shorter than Daniel yet for years was one of the most prolific tacklers in the league. So height is no obstacle. In fact it may be an asset when playing "in and under".

As for the spread of goals I think it's important that the midfield makes a solid contribution and does so on a regular basis. Having 2 or 3 powerful KPFs can work wonderfully against a cellar dweller but if it's a monoculture it also carries a risk, for instance if the midfield supply is strangled or we come up against a well-disciplined and talented tall defence. This is also why it's important to have a Weightman, a McLean or a Clarke at the fall of the ball, chipping in regularly with goals. And a midfield contribution of course. Ten different goal scoring threats are much harder to counter than just 4 or 5.

Daniel's tackling technique has been pretty poor his entire career, which is a bit strange because in all other aspects of the game he goes when its his turn to go. If he fixes up his technique (more body, less arms) we might see that improve

 

[Dogs_R_Us]

For our sake I hope you're right.

It just seems like a marriage of convenience at the moment. Treloar hasn't endeared himself to the club and vice versa.

Yes, I've been concerned about that ever since the talk of Dunkley leaving got real. It's not even as if he's gone to another Melbourne club where they could still keep in touch (as Adz does, still, with Collingwood players). Obviously you can't be mates with everyone, but friendship is a two-way thing, though. Others might view him a bit differently due to the previous couple of years where they seemed to spend time exclusively with each other.

 

[doggies ftw]

It's a valid point, although Dunkley only kicked 11 goals from 27 games in 2020 and 2021. He did however kick 18 from 23 games in 2022, his B&F year. Across their careers our designated midfielders (incl recent departures, Dunkley & the also-much-maligned Hunter) have the following goals per game averages:

0.94 Bontempelli​

0.59 Treloar​

0.56 Dunkley (--> Bris)​

0.48 B Smith​

0.42 Hunter (--> Melb)​

0.37 Liberatore​

0.23 Macrae​

Not too many people would have guessed Hunter kicks more goals per game than Libba.

The Weightman experiment will be interesting to watch, if it happens. Not against it but would assume it's only for about one in 5 or 10 CBAs. Unless he unexpectedly tears it apart I expect he would still be primarily a forward.

The player I am keen to watch if he gets an extended run in the middle is Daniel. I've been happy enough with him in defence but agree that some opposition sides have worked out how to play through him and exploit his lack of height and kicking penetration. I reckon he could be a real chance for the B&F if played in the guts consistently this year and (don't laugh) even an outside chance for the Brownlow because he quickly catches the eye with his headgear and his lack of stature. So no need to dye his hair blond to get votes.

Interestingly for all his time deep in defence he still has a higher goals/game average than Jack Macrae (0.24 to 0.23) so he could easily be the one to take over Dunkley's share of the goals.

Whether he can take over Dunkley's share of tackles and 1%ers is another matter. He is undoubtedly stronger now than he was 5 years ago when he was easily brushed aside. Libba Sr was shorter than Daniel yet for years was one of the most prolific tacklers in the league. So height is no obstacle. In fact it may be an asset when playing "in and under".

As for the spread of goals I think it's important that the midfield makes a solid contribution and does so on a regular basis. Having 2 or 3 powerful KPFs can work wonderfully against a cellar dweller but if it's a monoculture it also carries a risk, for instance if the midfield supply is strangled or we come up against a well-disciplined and talented tall defence. This is also why it's important to have a Weightman, a McLean or a Clarke at the fall of the ball, chipping in regularly with goals. And a midfield contribution of course. Ten different goal scoring threats are much harder to counter than just 4 or 5.

Would be interested to see what Hunter and Libbas avgs are over the past couple of years compared to careers as maybe I’m wrong but feel like Hunters avg would be dropping whilst Libbas improving.

To be fair Libba is a bonafide centre square inside mid so I’d expect our wings and a player like Dunkley who spends genuine minutes forward to outshine him there. Dunks would be even higher if he could kick.

Bont & Treloar are gun goal kicking mids. Baz can be as we know but hasn’t found the consistency there yet, hopefully this is the year and between the 3 of them I think you could easily be looking at 50-60+ goals which is a great return. I don’t think many teams would have 3 genuine goal kicking mids tbh.

I’d say we need more firepower from our wings more importantly. As McLean, Garcia, West rotate through they should all kick goals too but do they really count as midfield goals, considering they’ll spend more than half the game at half forward I wouldn’t think so.

Macraes just not a goal kicker which isn’t the end of the world, I’d guess he leads the team or goes close to it in score assists across his career so whilst he doesn’t kick them himself he’s still having an obvious impact on the scoreboard. And let’s not forget our number #1 ruckmen who can be a goal scorer too.

I just don’t think midfield goals is an area of concern, and can become a genuine strength if Baz finds consistency there. Dunks or no Dunks.

 

[Mofra]

I couldn't care less about Dunkley's scoring ability.
He's the only mid we had rated as elite for defensive ability.
That's what we need to replace, not his half a goal per game. Can Macrae, Treloar, Baz focus more on their defensive side? It's a big question

 

[Deadly Darcy]

It's a valid point, although Dunkley only kicked 11 goals from 27 games in 2020 and 2021. He did however kick 18 from 23 games in 2022, his B&F year. Across their careers our designated midfielders (incl recent departures, Dunkley & the also-much-maligned Hunter) have the following goals per game averages:

0.94 Bontempelli​

0.59 Treloar​

0.56 Dunkley (--> Bris)​

0.48 B Smith​

0.42 Hunter (--> Melb)​

0.37 Liberatore​

0.23 Macrae​

Not too many people would have guessed Hunter kicks more goals per game than Libba.

The Weightman experiment will be interesting to watch, if it happens. Not against it but would assume it's only for about one in 5 or 10 CBAs. Unless he unexpectedly tears it apart I expect he would still be primarily a forward.

The player I am keen to watch if he gets an extended run in the middle is Daniel. I've been happy enough with him in defence but agree that some opposition sides have worked out how to play through him and exploit his lack of height and kicking penetration. I reckon he could be a real chance for the B&F if played in the guts consistently this year and (don't laugh) even an outside chance for the Brownlow because he quickly catches the eye with his headgear and his lack of stature. So no need to dye his hair blond to get votes.

Interestingly for all his time deep in defence he still has a higher goals/game average than Jack Macrae (0.24 to 0.23) so he could easily be the one to take over Dunkley's share of the goals.

Whether he can take over Dunkley's share of tackles and 1%ers is another matter. He is undoubtedly stronger now than he was 5 years ago when he was easily brushed aside. Libba Sr was shorter than Daniel yet for years was one of the most prolific tacklers in the league. So height is no obstacle. In fact it may be an asset when playing "in and under".

As for the spread of goals I think it's important that the midfield makes a solid contribution and does so on a regular basis. Having 2 or 3 powerful KPFs can work wonderfully against a cellar dweller but if it's a monoculture it also carries a risk, for instance if the midfield supply is strangled or we come up against a well-disciplined and talented tall defence. This is also why it's important to have a Weightman, a McLean or a Clarke at the fall of the ball, chipping in regularly with goals. And a midfield contribution of course. Ten different goal scoring threats are much harder to counter than just 4 or 5.

Hunter played a lot of HFF in his early years. He was terrific up forward for the seagulls and really started to show his wears of Half forward early on. Then he got better on the wing and then it all went to a place no one really wants to post about……. Hope he gets it together at Melbourne.

 

[Dazb86]

We need more goals from our wingmen whoever they are

 

[Tommycash]

Keath, Daniel and Ed Richards all were over in the UK for Keath's wedding and took some time to train at Aston Villa. Were there with Adelaides' O'Brien and also Jake Kelly and Luke Lowden - Per O’Brien trains at Aston Villa

 

[synchrodogcal]

The player I am keen to watch if he gets an extended run in the middle is Daniel. I've been happy enough with him in defence but agree that some opposition sides have worked out how to play through him and exploit his lack of height and kicking penetration. I reckon he could be a real chance for the B&F if played in the guts consistently this year and (don't laugh) even an outside chance for the Brownlow because he quickly catches the eye with his headgear and his lack of stature. So no need to dye his hair blond to get votes.

have always thought caleb could be a bit sam mitchell-ish as a mid, so i'm on board with that

 

[VitalDread]

NGA Prospect Luamon Lual is training with the club for the next week

 

[dogwatch]

Would be interested to see what Hunter and Libbas avgs are over the past couple of years compared to careers as maybe I’m wrong but feel like Hunters avg would be dropping whilst Libbas improving.

To be fair Libba is a bonafide centre square inside mid so I’d expect our wings and a player like Dunkley who spends genuine minutes forward to outshine him there. Dunks would be even higher if he could kick.

Bont & Treloar are gun goal kicking mids. Baz can be as we know but hasn’t found the consistency there yet, hopefully this is the year and between the 3 of them I think you could easily be looking at 50-60+ goals which is a great return. I don’t think many teams would have 3 genuine goal kicking mids tbh.

I’d say we need more firepower from our wings more importantly. As McLean, Garcia, West rotate through they should all kick goals too but do they really count as midfield goals, considering they’ll spend more than half the game at half forward I wouldn’t think so.

Macraes just not a goal kicker which isn’t the end of the world, I’d guess he leads the team or goes close to it in score assists across his career so whilst he doesn’t kick them himself he’s still having an obvious impact on the scoreboard. And let’s not forget our number #1 ruckmen who can be a goal scorer too.

I just don’t think midfield goals is an area of concern, and can become a genuine strength if Baz finds consistency there. Dunks or no Dunks.

Hunter played a lot of HFF in his early years. He was terrific up forward for the seagulls and really started to show his wears of Half forward early on. Then he got better on the wing and then it all went to a place no one really wants to post about……. Hope he gets it together at Melbourne.

Hunter averaged 0.40 goals a game in 2020 and 2021 so that's very close to his career average. He only averaged 0.20 last year but he was crap for the whole year and pretty well washed up with us by then. (Which raises the question do we even need to replace his goalkicking ability? Perhaps not. Almost any other player would average 0.20 or better.)

Yes Hunter kicked slightly more goals in his early career but not a big difference. His best year was 2017 (0.82) and I think he was pretty well locked into the wing role by then.

Libba's last three years have been 0.31 (2020) 0.56 (2021) and 0.41 (2022) so that's 0.44 - only slightly higher than earlier in his career, and his career average.

 

[Maverick Dog]

Am a little concerned that we and GWS are the only 2 clubs who have not scheduled a scratch match with another AFL club.Hopefully we get our act together and schedule one with the easybeats

 

[Bulldogs85]

Am a little concerned that we and GWS are the only 2 clubs who have not scheduled a scratch match with another AFL club.Hopefully we get our act together and schedule one with the easybeats

This was on the AFL site club has got other plans.

The Western Bulldogs are on a community camp during this window and are only believed to be exploring an intraclub at this stage, ahead of the practice match the following week.

 

[ScragCity]

Just bought myself an 800 dollar pair of boots to wear to the GF when we win the flag this year

 

[bresker]

Just bought myself an 800 dollar pair of boots to wear to the GF when we win the flag this year

If we dont win the boots will provide solace

 

[Northern Dogs]

Just bought myself an 800 dollar pair of boots to wear to the GF when we win the flag this year

I hope they are made of Green's approved material!

 

[TiAn_]

Yeah I’m confident that Dunkley’s offensive output will be more than replaced by Lobb and others with a better structure to boot, but replacing his tackling and pressure output I50 and in the midfield will be the challenge.

 

[X_box_X]

Wow, Bruce looks fantastic.

I thought he was gone when he did his knee in 2021. It didn't surprise me that he struggled last year but I'm not confident he's gone anymore. Good on him for working hard to get himself in career best shape.

 

[Shacf501]

I've been banished to the couch tonight.

20th wedding anniversary and I bought Mrs Shacf a bulldogs membership. She wasn't impressed!