Play Nice Referendum - Indigenous Voice in Parliament - Part 2

[Gethelred]

Link to the proposed Referendum, from the Referendum Working Group:

(Edited 6 April 2023)

These are the words that will be put to the Australian people in the upcoming referendum as agreed by the Referendum Working Group (made up of representatives of First Nations communities from around Australia):

"A Proposed Law: to alter the Constitution to recognise the First Peoples of Australia by establishing an Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice. Do you approve this proposed alteration?"

As well as that, it will be put to Australians that the constitution be amended to include a new chapter titled "Recognition of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Peoples".

The details would be:


View attachment 1636890

The Prime Minister has committed to the government introducing legislation with this wording to parliament on 30 March 2023 and to establishing a joint parliamentary committee to consider it and receive submissions on the wording, providing ALL members of Parliament with the opportunity to consider and debate the full details of the proposal.

Parliament will then vote on the wording in June in the lead up to a National Referendum.

The ANU has issued a paper responding to common public concerns expressed in relation to the proposed Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice here:

Indigenous Voice to Parliament | Australian National University

Responding to common concerns about an aboriginal and torres strait islander voice First Nations portfolio Background

www.anu.edu.au

Summary details of the key points from this paper may be found in Chief post here:

The Uluru Statement from the Heart:

Not specifically No. In any case it does not form part of the Referendum proposal.

View attachment 1769742

Seeing as things have gotten a bit toxic in here, let's try to return things to a more civil tone.

The following will result in warnings to begin with, and if said behaviour continues will be escalated:

• referring to another poster as racist without direct provocation.
• dismissing or deriding another poster's lived experience.
• personal attacks or one line posts designed solely to insult or deride.

You might notice that the final rule is from the board rules. Thought we should probably remember that this is against the rules in case it's been forgotten.

Let's play nicely from here, people.

 

[MrKK]

Feels like the point might be a little more that if someone as disconnected as MC Hammer can spend 3 minutes reading and go “oh that actually seems like a good thing" then pretty much everyone can.

As clever as the "if you dont know, vote no" slogan and marketing is its also pretty trashy.

I wouldn't think that, after spending 3 minutes reading an article from one side of a political issue in a foreign country, I was in any way informed enough to spout my opinion about it.

Angry Red Bull was an example of this as well.

On a technical question, do no shows count towards the “no vote” ie suppose a state has a 49% yes, 47% no and 4% informal/ did not show. Would that count as a yes (larger vote count than no/ > 50% eligible vote) or as a no for the state (did not make 50% of voters)

It's % of votes cast, so no shows don't count for either side. I expect that will favour Yes as those not interested enough to enrolled or vote would've been No voters if forced to choose.

 

[Sun Ra]

When first announced Yes was going to get up by a landslide. It has declined rapidly since.

Are the people that were Yes but have changed inheritently racist or have they just decided racism is the way to go and decided to change to no?

The increase in the No vote hasn't been due to a sudden increase in racism. It is due to a rejection of the Yes message.

This is like Brexit 2.0.

There has been a marked increase and amplification of racist views in public discourse and the media since the
referendum was announced - driven by the No camp - to deny this is living in fairyland.

 

[Stokey]

It's more to do with acceptance of the message from the No campaign, which has the luxury of just telling any old lie it wants to.

But the lie you just told is ok?

 

[HaroLad]

I am absolutely shocked that someone using a 4chan meme as an avatar would be spouting racist bullshit on big footy

SHOCKED



I am not at all shocked

Educate me, please.

What is ‘racist’ about being treated like someone who doesn’t belong (or doesn’t have a moral right to be) in their own country?

 

[TheEscapeClub]

The libs have never won office without substantial seats held in inner city areas - sure they'll sure up LNP seats in Queensland, but the seats they need to take from Labor are hardly going to look kindly towards the active no campaign,

Interesting.

For the No to get up it might be down to those who you say aren't going to look too kindly towards the Libs.

Qld and Tasmania are the only 2 states that have less than 50% of their total populations in the capital cities. Brisbane is 46% and Hobart is 45.77%

The rest are :

Sydney @ 61.35%
Melbourne @ 77.00%
Perth @ 73.57%
Adelaide @ 76.67%

ACT has 464,00 votes
NT has 254,000

So of the 6 states, for the No vote to get up, a hell of a lot of people from the respective capitals are going to have to vote No.

If Qld and WA both vote No, I can see the other 4 states voting in favour, it then comes down to the overall vote. If both NSW and Victoria are anywhere near strong Yes voting states then it might be enough to carry the Yes vote.

I get the feeling this may not be as clear cut as people currently think it is.

 

[Stokey]

There has been a marked increase and amplification of racist views since in public discourse and the media since the
referendum was announced - driven by the No camp - to deny this is living in fairyland.

So the No campaign mave nade non racist people inherently racist..

That's some feat.

 

[Mofra]

Interesting.

For the No to get up it might be down to those who you say aren't going to look too kindly towards the Libs.

Qld and Tasmania are the only 2 states that have less than 50% of their total populations in the capital cities. Brisbane is 46% and Hobart is 45.77%

The rest are :

Sydney @ 61.35%
Melbourne @ 77.00%
Perth @ 73.57%
Adelaide @ 76.67%

ACT has 464,00 votes
NT has 254,000

So of the 6 states, for the No vote to get up, a hell of a lot of people from the respective capitals are going to have to vote No.

If Qld and WA both vote No, I can see the other 4 states voting in favour, it then comes down to the overall vote. If both NSW and Victoria are anywhere near strong Yes voting states then it might be enough to carry the Yes vote.

I get the feeling this may not be as clear cut as people currently think it is.

All valid points, but the slow trend of a climbing No vote seems had to halt.
History is against a referendum yes vote too.

 

[Gralin]

Educate me, please.

What is ‘racist’ about being treated like someone who doesn’t belong (or doesn’t have a moral right to be) in their own country?

It's not your country mate, you don't own it

getting Pissy about an opening ceremony at a sporting even, do you crack the shits about advance australia fair being sung before finals?

do you get annoyed if a band at a concert says thanks for coming to see us

but also you're agreeing with Sam Newman and pretty much every other professional racist in the country

 

[Gralin]

So the No campaign mave nade non racist people inherently racist..

That's some feat.

I'd say they tapped into the existing racism and fear in people by lying their arses off with the help of a complicit media

a lot of people when asked what they wanted to do said yes

then the no campaign started saying to them well if you say yes all these bad things are going to happen to you

you're going to be discriminated against
why should someone else get something you wont
they're going to take away your holiday
they're going to charge you money
they're going to take your home

etc etc

and its pretty clear from the results that for a large enough percentage of the population that works

happy to do something they think is nice as long as it doesn't impact them

if they think it might impact them negatively then not interested

some of them would be racist, some just selfish and afraid

but the people pushing the message are racists

 

[Sun Ra]

So the No campaign mave nade non racist people inherently racist..

That's some feat.

That's not what I said and you know it.

 

[Angry Red Bull]

Worth a try but unfortunately it seems like the power of lies spread through slick TikTok and Facebook ads and bots is greater than that of rational thought.

Hopefully the lies peter out as they are debunked one by one, but I'm not holding my breath.

#VoteYES23

I'm not hopeful now either. One thing does give me heart and that was MLs answer to the question .....what happens if we get a no vote

She said her joint report is still there and the initiatives are still available so you have to hope we will get indigenous consultation/ involvement and workable strategies to turn this whole predicament around either way. Mind you Albanese isn't travelling too well in the polls himself either so the prospect of Dutton isn't very appealing for anything helping indigenous peoples. It pains me to say that a major party has the agenda it has knowing what it must.

 

[phantom13]

I wouldn't think that, after spending 3 minutes reading an article from one side of a political issue in a foreign country, I was in any way informed enough to spout my opinion about it.

It's % of votes cast, so no shows don't count for either side. I expect that will favour Yes as those not interested enough to enrolled or vote would've been No voters if forced to choose.

Have you spent 3 minutes reading about the voice to parliament? Cause truthfully if you have doubts, thats about how long it takes to dispell the misinformation being spouted.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Angry Red Bull was an example of this as well.

On a technical question, do no shows count towards the “no vote” ie suppose a state has a 49% yes, 47% no and 4% informal/ did not show. Would that count as a yes (larger vote count than no/ > 50% eligible vote) or as a no for the state (did not make 50% of voters)

Thinking yes voters should get to the booths early, fill up all the car parks and leave their cars parked for the day.

 

[Chief]

I wouldn't think that, after spending 3 minutes reading an article from one side of a political issue in a foreign country, I was in any way informed enough to spout my opinion about it.

It's % of votes cast, so no shows don't count for either side. I expect that will favour Yes as those not interested enough to enrolled or vote would've been No voters if forced to choose.

Right now, what are your worries about the Voice? I guarantee they will be answered with facts and evidence. Even examples from the past where your fears did not come to pass.

Give us a go at responding.

 

[Stokey]

That's not what I said and you know it.

So what is the reason for the turn in the polls.

According to you

 

[phantom13]

So the No campaign mave nade non racist people inherently racist..

That's some feat.

You know that you can be a person who is not "racist" but still hold some racist thoughts and beliefs.

Not every person who tells a racist joke or tips into racial stereotypes is a swastika tattooed skin head.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

So what is the reason for the turn in the polls.

According to you

Phone rings. “This is newspoll. Would you like to take part in a survey?”

NO. Hangs up phone.

 

[HaroLad]

It's not your country mate, you don't own it

Do Aboriginal people own it? If so, why do they and not me? What about people of mixed ancestry?

 

[Stokey]

You know that you can be a person who is not "racist" but still hold some racist thoughts and beliefs.

Not every person who tells a racist joke or tips into racial stereotypes is a swastika tattooed skin head.

Does it include rolling your eyes when someone stops you on the way to get your oat milk low steam extra hot small black?

 

[Sun Ra]

So what is the reason for the turn in the polls.

According to you

Mostly ignorance, selfishness, irrational fear and indifference with a bit of racism in the mix as well.

 

[phantom13]

Does it include rolling your eyes when someone stops you on the way to get your oat milk low steam extra hot small black?

I suppose at least you know what a stereotype is. Well done to you.

 

[Stokey]

Phone rings. “This is newspoll. Would you like to take part in a survey?”

NO. Hangs up phone.

Hope they used the <44 before my number.

 

[Stokey]

Mostly ignorance, selfishness, irrational fear and indifference with a bit of racism in the mix as well.

Sold me. I'm going to switch back to Yes

 

[Blue Arrow]

Spends 500 million on this but chucks a fraction for an inquiry about the pandemic.
Typical Labor, corrupt to the core.

 

[tandino]

Phone rings. “This is newspoll. Would you like to take part in a survey?”

NO. Hangs up phone.

Thats not how polls work.