Play Nice Referendum - Indigenous Voice in Parliament - Part 2

[Gethelred]

Link to the proposed Referendum, from the Referendum Working Group:

(Edited 6 April 2023)

These are the words that will be put to the Australian people in the upcoming referendum as agreed by the Referendum Working Group (made up of representatives of First Nations communities from around Australia):

"A Proposed Law: to alter the Constitution to recognise the First Peoples of Australia by establishing an Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice. Do you approve this proposed alteration?"

As well as that, it will be put to Australians that the constitution be amended to include a new chapter titled "Recognition of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Peoples".

The details would be:


View attachment 1636890

The Prime Minister has committed to the government introducing legislation with this wording to parliament on 30 March 2023 and to establishing a joint parliamentary committee to consider it and receive submissions on the wording, providing ALL members of Parliament with the opportunity to consider and debate the full details of the proposal.

Parliament will then vote on the wording in June in the lead up to a National Referendum.

The ANU has issued a paper responding to common public concerns expressed in relation to the proposed Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice here:

Indigenous Voice to Parliament | Australian National University

Responding to common concerns about an aboriginal and torres strait islander voice First Nations portfolio Background

www.anu.edu.au

Summary details of the key points from this paper may be found in Chief post here:

The Uluru Statement from the Heart:

Not specifically No. In any case it does not form part of the Referendum proposal.

View attachment 1769742

Seeing as things have gotten a bit toxic in here, let's try to return things to a more civil tone.

The following will result in warnings to begin with, and if said behaviour continues will be escalated:

• referring to another poster as racist without direct provocation.
• dismissing or deriding another poster's lived experience.
• personal attacks or one line posts designed solely to insult or deride.

You might notice that the final rule is from the board rules. Thought we should probably remember that this is against the rules in case it's been forgotten.

Let's play nicely from here, people.

 

[winty]

Who's the one in the green shirt to Sam's left?

Former wedding photographer Rukshan Fernando.

 

[Gralin]

Do Aboriginal people own it? If so, why do they and not me? What about people of mixed ancestry?

All I said was it's not your country and that you don't own it.

Point me to the legislation or bill of rights that has property of HAROLAD written on it.

This idea of ownership like its your house and everywhere you go should cater to you is just entitlement of the worst sort

 

[Crankyhawk]

Personally i think the age demographic of poll votes is the answer. The younger generation haven't been down the road on multiple attempts at fixing indigenous disadvantage so they will vote yes thinking they've invented the wheel. And have high yes %. The older generation have mixture of racists yes but many like me who have been down this road multiple times (I'm 66) and just want a solution and are very sceptical of new suggestions because of the past failure rate. That leaves the whole strategy open to being manipulated by no campaign to reasons why a constitutional change is involved. "Is there an agenda?" "Why do constitutional change on a whim?" "If it doesn't work it will be permanent?" "Is this a lead into treaties?"These sorts of questions. And to be perfectly honest the disaster which was ATSIC was constantly in the back of my mind the whole time. I worked for a firm which audited these organizations so i know how bad it was

There would be very small % who would vote no if there was a clear path demonstrated to be a success. Why would you? No one wants to see anyone disadvantaged. It is a blight on our country that it is like this but i definitely want a solution to disadvantage as essential priority. Sadly the no campaign have been very adept at using smoke and mirrors to distract on the sort of questions i posed.

To me this thing goes crazy for yes IF the yes campaign starts focusing on specific examples of HOW indigenous disadvantage may be fixed in a voice. That's how ML sold it for me. She has the whole thing totally sorted in my mind.

Why not just try it? Has to be better than status quo? Sure it does BUT those questions and Albanese's failure to say HOW things correct with ML left open this whole sad predicament imo which may convert to a massive lost opportunity.

They did give examples of how listening to the local communities led to benefits in the yes pamphlet - agree though that such examples have not been front and center of the yes campaign.

 

[Crankyhawk]

Thinking yes voters should get to the booths early, fill up all the car parks and leave their cars parked for the day.

I am more thinking a (misinformation) type campaign along the lines of "if you don't know stay home, the AEC wont have the resources to fine everyone who fails to cast a vote/ get a sick certificate off your GP etc" this could crash the no vote IF it is just based on votes cast.

 

[Ice-Wolf]

That's not what I said and you know it.

Seems to be the 'No' campaign primary tactic.

 

[Ice-Wolf]

I am more thinking a (misinformation) type campaign along the lines of "if you don't know stay home, the AEC wont have the resources to fine everyone who fails to cast a vote/ get a sick certificate off your GP etc" this could crash the no vote IF it is just based on votes cast.

"If you don't know, leave it blank".

See even less you have to do and you don't have to worry about the AEC.

 

[Gough]

Seems to be the 'No' campaign primary tactic.

Don't forget playing the victim, per The Graund blog.

The No campaign has disavowed planned no rallies around the country this weekend, saying, without evidence, they’ve been “hi-jacked” by left-wing activists.

The Fair Australia campaign, run by conservative lobby group Advance Australia, has tweeted it has received “feedback” indicating “left-wing” activists had planned events to undermine its campaign:

 

[Crankyhawk]

"If you don't know, leave it blank".

See even less you have to do and you don't have to worry about the AEC.

True, but perhaps cost of petrol exceeds the cost of fine for some in the regions (who may have forgotten to apply for a postal)

Edit can also return a blank postal too…

 

[MrKK]

Phone rings. “This is newspoll. Would you like to take part in a survey?”

NO. Hangs up phone.

Seriously? I can't believe this was posted by a Mod and liked by another one. Perhaps this article should be stickied so this misinformation about phone polls can stop being repeated.

Yes voters need to snap out of polling denial — the numbers are real

There are a lot of false claims on social media about the accuracy of polls. Here's a rundown of just how wrong some of those claims are.

www.crikey.com.au

 

[Stokey]

You know that you can be a person who is not "racist" but still hold some racist thoughts and beliefs.

Not every person who tells a racist joke or tips into racial stereotypes is a swastika tattooed skin head.

Do you hold 'racist thoughts'?

Are you saying you judge everyone equally regardless of skin colour?

 

[Ghost Patrol]

Seriously? I can't believe this was posted by a Mod and liked by another one. Perhaps this article should be stickied so this misinformation about phone polls can stop being repeated.

Yes voters need to snap out of polling denial — the numbers are real

There are a lot of false claims on social media about the accuracy of polls. Here's a rundown of just how wrong some of those claims are.

www.crikey.com.au

If you don't know, tell newspoll no.

 

[HurleyHepsHird]

The astonishing lies of the no campaign burn like lurid rockets in our sky. We must not go saying no | Thomas Keneally

Only a yes vote opens the gate that has been closed for 250 years

www.theguardian.com

 

[jpmelb7]

As I said I am not sure you have any understanding of Aboriginal people, Aboriginal history and Aboriginal inter mob/clan relations. You make sweeping statements without any research or grounding. You might want to focus on the strong inter mob connections through marriage, trade, ceremony, hunting etc.

That's fine but most people don't want to focus at all on the fact they are all from different tribal lands that continuously fought each other. They were never one unified people.

 

[HurleyHepsHird]

Spends 500 million on this but chucks a fraction for an inquiry about the pandemic.
Typical Labor, corrupt to the core.

I think the Libs would be the ones most pleased not to be subject to a federal Royal Commission?

 

[South of the Yarra]

That's fine but most people don't want to focus at all on the fact they are all from different tribal lands that continuously fought each other. They were never one unified people.

Continuously fought each other is simply not true.

 

[phantom13]

Do you hold 'racist thoughts'?

Are you saying you judge everyone equally regardless of skin colour?

I think everyone has some general racial bias and stereotypes, absolutely. I think its incredibly naive to think you wouldnt.

I think i try to understand peoples situation from a whole bunch of angles including what they may have had to deal with in the past (read, if an Indigenous person is a bit defensive over something like this, ill give them alot of rope because i understand that ill never understand what theyve probably dealt with). I wouldnt "judge" someone on skin color but ill try to understand how that (or many other variables) may have made them the way they are.

 

[HurleyHepsHird]

If the No campaign wasn't racist and dishonest, why do they keep lying and saying/doing racist things?

Linda Burney calls for Gary Johns to be sacked from no campaign after fresh barrage of offensive comments unearthed

Johns accused Indigenous leaders of a ‘grab for power’ and proposed a ‘very heavy cultural intervention’ for Aboriginal children

www.theguardian.com

The integrity of the constitution my arse.

 

[HurleyHepsHird]

More news from the rational and not at all divisive No campaign.

AEC says staff threatened online amid ‘bonkers’ criticism over voice referendum ticks and crosses

Commissioner Tom Rogers says staff have borne the brunt of wild claims ahead of the biggest electoral event in Australia’s history

www.theguardian.com

I thought they believed in conserving the integrity of our institutions? Such good faith to wind up a bunch of cookers with mistruths who then threaten and harrass AEC staff.

 

[Stokey]

I think everyone has some general racial bias and stereotypes, absolutely. I think its incredibly naive to think you wouldnt.

I think i try to understand peoples situation from a whole bunch of angles including what they may have had to deal with in the past (read, if an Indigenous person is a bit defensive over something like this, ill give them alot of rope because i understand that ill never understand what theyve probably dealt with). I wouldnt "judge" someone on skin color but ill try to understand how that (or many other variables) may have made them the way they are.

I'm guessing most people think this. It sounds like you are in fact judging people by their skin colour. It's just all about convincing people you aren't.

 

[QuietB]

Spends 500 million on this but chucks a fraction for an inquiry about the pandemic.
Typical Labor, corrupt to the core.

This and Duttons tantrums this week highlight everything that is wrong with conservative politics.

If it were Dutton the entire Royal Commission would be framed to bash state Labor governments- mainly Victoria as usual. That would be its only purpose.

The point of any enquiry should of course be to help Australia prepare better for the next pandemic.

But obviously that is not enough for Dutton when there is a rolled gold chance to kick Victorian heads again. The man is an idiot.

 

[QuietB]

That's fine but most people don't want to focus at all on the fact they are all from different tribal lands that continuously fought each other. They were never one unified people.

What is the relevance of focusing on that?

 

[Gough]

What is the relevance of focusing on that?

Particularly when the Uluru Statement from the Heart is a unified voice

 

[Stokey]

What is the relevance of focusing on that?

Are you of the opinion that if they look the same they must think the same?

 

[phantom13]

I'm guessing most people think this. It sounds like you are in fact judging people by their skin colour. It's just all about convincing people you aren't.

I have no idea what relevance this has to the indigenous voice vote but thats fine, you can think whatever you like.

 

[HaroLad]

All I said was it's not your country and that you don't own it.

Point me to the legislation or bill of rights that has property of HAROLAD written on it.

This idea of ownership like its your house and everywhere you go should cater to you is just entitlement of the worst sort

I’m asking you to explain how you think.

It being ‘my’ country doesn’t equate to me having proprietary interests in the land - you know that I’m not saying that.

It means I have a moral right - within the confides of ‘Australia’ - to live, to participate in public/civic life etc. It’s where I’m from, and my parents, and their parents before them. It’s where my national identity is from.

So, again, if it’s not my country, is it Aboriginal people’s country?