Play Nice Referendum - Indigenous Voice in Parliament - Part 2

[Gethelred]

Link to the proposed Referendum, from the Referendum Working Group:

(Edited 6 April 2023)

These are the words that will be put to the Australian people in the upcoming referendum as agreed by the Referendum Working Group (made up of representatives of First Nations communities from around Australia):

"A Proposed Law: to alter the Constitution to recognise the First Peoples of Australia by establishing an Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice. Do you approve this proposed alteration?"

As well as that, it will be put to Australians that the constitution be amended to include a new chapter titled "Recognition of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Peoples".

The details would be:


View attachment 1636890

The Prime Minister has committed to the government introducing legislation with this wording to parliament on 30 March 2023 and to establishing a joint parliamentary committee to consider it and receive submissions on the wording, providing ALL members of Parliament with the opportunity to consider and debate the full details of the proposal.

Parliament will then vote on the wording in June in the lead up to a National Referendum.

The ANU has issued a paper responding to common public concerns expressed in relation to the proposed Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Voice here:

Indigenous Voice to Parliament | Australian National University

Responding to common concerns about an aboriginal and torres strait islander voice First Nations portfolio Background

www.anu.edu.au

Summary details of the key points from this paper may be found in Chief post here:

The Uluru Statement from the Heart:

Not specifically No. In any case it does not form part of the Referendum proposal.

View attachment 1769742

Seeing as things have gotten a bit toxic in here, let's try to return things to a more civil tone.

The following will result in warnings to begin with, and if said behaviour continues will be escalated:

• referring to another poster as racist without direct provocation.
• dismissing or deriding another poster's lived experience.
• personal attacks or one line posts designed solely to insult or deride.

You might notice that the final rule is from the board rules. Thought we should probably remember that this is against the rules in case it's been forgotten.

Let's play nicely from here, people.

 

[Sphynx]

Who? Which ones? Name them?

But everyone voted no is a racist? There’s never been any underlying problems in society that might have swayed opinion.

I’m not going to name them, but they are prominent ex-AFL indigenous footballers mainly based in Melbourne, some NRL players in NSW and QLD. Some of them are high profile indigenous ex-Olympians also.

Some of them are 51% owners in over 40 companies given priority access to major projects and funding under local content and social ingenious procurement quotas. A lot of these companies are shelf companies of larger organizations.

40 companies of different industries they have absolutely no involvement in on a day to day basis or have any experience in.

Catching up yet why some people might see red flags with the Voice?

 

[South of the Yarra]

They have tried to take my car and house previously.

Just your car and house? White people took my family and my mothers, sisters and brothers lives.

 

[MarcMaverick]

Why would I want to say that? It's meaningless drivel that makes zero sense. Yours to own all by yourself.

You need some copium stat.

 

[Freshwater]

That is a lot of words to say "our constitution isn't perfect and we shouldn't change it".

If you do a list of how wealthy countries around the world recognise and empower their Indigenous people, Australia would rank about dead last.

Countries with constitutional recognition (off the top of my head): New Zealand, USA, Canada, Finland, Denmark, Sweden, Norway.

Of ex British colonies, nearly all I think have some form of treaty with their Indigenous peoples - we couldn't even bring ourselves to give them a mention and a voice.

The labelling of the No campaign I think is warranted, because its proponents obviously have spent so little time looking in to what the Voice proposal actually meant both locally and in a global context.

I don’t think about differences like you do. I want one law for all. I don’t believe in ‘treaty’ or separatist parallel civilisations within the one country. Islamic law here, tribal law there, I don’t believe in apartheid or superior or inferior races. I couldn’t care whether you ancestors were from Ireland, Samoa, India, England, or were from Australia or most likely a mixture or everywhere, because we are one race, the human race, equal before the law. Equal rights and protections. We have what we have, it’s never perfect but we have been bequeathed some amazing opportunities.
The lot of aboriginals in aboriginal communities is distressing. I have worked in some of the most remote on the continent and love the inhabitants wholly and never ever talk them down. Beautiful souls. But their plight will never be solved by governments, ever. Paternalism (middleclass people treating them differently) will never solve it either, ever. They need examples to follow, by their peers of going to school and work. Not only their aboriginal peers, most love non aboriginals more the the inner city activist types would lead you to believe. They love their footy and all the great stars. When ideological ‘helpers’ come in and then tell them things like “that’s whites man work ethic, you don’t need to do that” “we’ll just give you some money anyway”. This is demotivating almost soul destroying. And sows such bad principles and low self esteem and morale. When I hear inner city types wanting governments to fix problems they know nothing about I wander how out of touch they are? Governments aren’t good at fixing things, their role is to protect their people and laws so those people learn how to fix things, which they will because we eventually work things out.

 

[SSwans2011]

But everyone voted no is a racist? There’s never been any underlying problems in society that might have swayed opinion.

I’m not going to name them, but they are prominent ex-AFL indigenous footballers mainly based in Melbourne m

Hahaha this is so pissweak. Have a spine, name them.

 

[Sphynx]

Hahaha this is so pissweak. Have a spine, name them.

Ever think I might be under a legal obligation not to?

There’s enough information out there on Black Cladding.

It’s a serious issue, especially in the construction sector.

 

[South of the Yarra]

Never was, and never will be Aboriginal land. How a minority group can lay claim to land that pre-existed them by 240 million years is absurd. In Europe there are white nationalists who claim they belong to their “homeland” because their ancestors were there for thousands of years before. They are considered racist, why isn’t the mirroring considered the same here?

And there is the classic lack of understanding of someone who has no idea. Absolutely moronic comment.

 

[Better Loosen Up]

Like the regressive no voters, they aren't likely to go looking for information on the referendum.

Most of them couldn't even point to us on a map for starters

 

[Jello_B]

Albanese should resign over this. Completely made a mess of it, has created more division and emboldened actual racists.
Got his messaging horribly wrong, awful execution.
Embarrassing that he couldn’t convince 50% of Australians that this change is a no brainer that is obviously positive.

 

[SSwans2011]

Ever think I might be under a legal obligation not to?

There’s enough information out there on Black Cladding.

It’s a serious issue, especially in the construction sector.

Genuine question - what legal obligation would prevent you from naming people that have stakes in a company?

 

[blueboy25]

The labelling of the No campaign as at best misninformed and at worst racist, is in my view warranted, because its proponents obviously have spent so little time looking in to what the Voice proposal actually meant both locally and in a global context.

Watching Bridget "Sports Rorts" Mckenzie go on TV during the week saying with a heavy heart she will be voting no but then posts on twitter a photo of herself smiling at the ballot box saying she voted no to the "Labor's divisive Voice".

 

[MarcMaverick]

Albanese should resign over this. Completely made a mess of it, has created more division and emboldened actual racists.
Got his messaging horribly wrong, awful execution.
Embarrassing that he couldn’t convince 50% of Australians that this change is a no brainer that is obviously positive.

Especially as Dutton was opposing it. He lost to one of the most despised POS and he couldn't get it through. Need some introspection.

 

[Chief]

Albanese should resign over this. Completely made a mess of it, has created more division and emboldened actual racists.
Got his messaging horribly wrong, awful execution.
Embarrassing that he couldn’t convince 50% of Australians that this change is a no brainer that is obviously positive.

Do you think the intense partisan, dishonest campaign from Dutton and crew had anything to do with it?

 

[Sphynx]

Genuine question - what legal obligation would prevent you from naming people that have stakes in a company?

NDA’s, particularly on sensitive projects, I.e defence, energy and major infrastructure.

Put this way, there’s currently a lot of similarities forming between how some of the Arab states (Qatar particularly) operate in terms of priority benefits for full blooded Qatari citizens and the requirements on industry for First Nations people in this country in the capital cities.

We absolutely need to do more for rural First Nations communities and the social issues out in the bush.

You are taking the piss if you think we need to do more for First Nations people in the major cities at the moment though.

 

[Chief]

NDA’s, particularly on sensitive projects, I.e defence, energy and major infrastructure.

Surely company ownership is public knowledge?

 

[blueboy25]

Albanese should resign over this. Completely made a mess of it, has created more division and emboldened actual racists.
Got his messaging horribly wrong, awful execution.
Embarrassing that he couldn’t convince 50% of Australians that this change is a no brainer that is obviously positive.

Were you calling for Howard to resign when the republic referendum went down?

 

[Mitchell Madness]

A lot of people trying to pass blame. Reality is this "voice" was proposed and backed by a bunch of rich, inner city lefties who have no idea what it is like to struggle in a remote indigenous community. That was the first thing that killed it.

Then when people dared to question how it would improve the issues indigenous people believe are unique to them, instead of actually answering the question, all anyone in favour of the voice could say was "you are racist"

 

[blueboy25]

Especially as Dutton was opposing it. He lost to one of the most despised POS and he couldn't get it through. Need some introspection.

Should Dutton resign? He destroyed a referendum and his approval rating is still falling.

 

[Jello_B]

Do you think the intense partisan, dishonest campaign from Dutton and crew had anything to do with it?

Of course. But it’s his job to cut through that and he has failed. How will young First Nations people feel after this. I wouldn’t blame them for giving up.
There was always going to be cretins taking a self-interest position.
This is a sad result.

 

[Ghost Patrol]

60% of people don't know the road rules either.

 

[Jimi]

I don’t think about differences like you do. I want one law for all. I don’t believe in ‘treaty’ or separatist parallel civilisations within the one country. Islamic law here, tribal law there, I don’t believe in apartheid or superior or inferior races. I couldn’t care whether you ancestors were from Ireland, Samoa, India, England, or were from Australia or most likely a mixture or everywhere, because we are one race, the human race, equal before the law. Equal rights and protections. We have what we have, it’s never perfect but we have been bequeathed some amazing opportunities.
The lot of aboriginals in aboriginal communities is distressing. I have worked in some of the most remote on the continent and love the inhabitants wholly and never ever talk them down. Beautiful souls. But their plight will never be solved by governments, ever. Paternalism (middleclass people treating them differently) will never solve it either, ever. They need examples to follow, by their peers of going to school and work. Not only their aboriginal peers, most love non aboriginals more the the inner city activist types would lead you to believe. They love their footy and all the great stars. When ideological ‘helpers’ come in and then tell them things like “that’s whites man work ethic, you don’t need to do that” “we’ll just give you some money anyway”. This is demotivating almost soul destroying. And sows such bad principles and low self esteem and morale. When I hear inner city types wanting governments to fix problems they know nothing about I wander how out of touch they are? Governments aren’t good at fixing things, their role is to protect their people and laws so those people learn how to fix things, which they will because we eventually work things out.

You must realise how incredibly privileged you sound. You are telling Indiginous people that "My way (the coloniser way) is the only way". Equality before the law means nothing when Indigenous kids are 26 times more likely to end up in prison than their white classmates. Like it or not, Indigenous Australians have different lived experiences, a different relationship with our systems, a different relationship to this land, a different view of English colonisation and different outcomes across the spectrum.

You decry paternalism when that is exactly what Australia has done by voting no and what you are espousing in your post. The Voice wasn't a politicians idea, it came directly from Indigenous people.

 

[blueboy25]

A lot of people trying to pass blame. Reality is this "voice" was proposed and backed by a bunch of rich, inner city lefties who have no idea what it is like to struggle in a remote indigenous community. That was the first thing that killed it.

Then when people dared to question how it would improve the issues indigenous people believe are unique to them, instead of actually answering the question, all anyone in favour of the voice could say was "you are racist"

Who funded the no campaign?

I see Gina was at the No campaign function celebrating last night, we know Clive Palmer put plenty of money into the No campaign.

No doubt they had our indigenous brothers and sisters in mind when they were sinking funds into the campaign.

 

[MarcMaverick]

Should Dutton resign? He destroyed a referendum and his approval rating is still falling.

Yes. He's not PM however. Albo is, after all we elected him. Both of them should fall on their swords.

 

[Sphynx]

Surely company ownership is public knowledge?

Yep, if you know the entity names.

 

[Roby]

The Age agrees with me

Booth by booth, Indigenous Australians backed the Voice

A central argument of the Voice referendum was the attitude of Indigenous Australians to the question. Voting booth data shows they backed Yes in large numbers.

www.theage.com.au

You missed the previous posts which says this is incorrect. Go back to school