Society/Culture Reproductive Rights: Roe vs Wade, abortion, etc

[sherb]

Geezus.

Alito cites judge who executed women for witchcraft and legalized spousal rape in Supreme Court draft ruling

The draft of an opinion by Justice Samuel Alito was leaked Monday night, showing the legal justifications the Supreme Court intends to use to block abortion in half of the United States. Columbia Journalism School professor Emily Bell cited an excerpt from the opinion in which Alito mentions...

www.rawstory.com

 

[ferball]

Geezus.

Alito cites judge who executed women for witchcraft and legalized spousal rape in Supreme Court draft ruling

The draft of an opinion by Justice Samuel Alito was leaked Monday night, showing the legal justifications the Supreme Court intends to use to block abortion in half of the United States. Columbia Journalism School professor Emily Bell cited an excerpt from the opinion in which Alito mentions...

www.rawstory.com

The guy he is citing lived in 16th century England. What else would you expect from such a barbaric society?

But that guy is considered one of the greatest, most impartial, fairest and most reasonable British legal minds up until the last few decades. His decisions about executing women for witchcraft, executing kids and spousal rape ... well like I just said. What do you expect from barbarians?

 

[Big_Birdy]

Geezus.

Alito cites judge who executed women for witchcraft and legalized spousal rape in Supreme Court draft ruling

The draft of an opinion by Justice Samuel Alito was leaked Monday night, showing the legal justifications the Supreme Court intends to use to block abortion in half of the United States. Columbia Journalism School professor Emily Bell cited an excerpt from the opinion in which Alito mentions...

www.rawstory.com

Hale was quoted as evidence that abortion had a long history of being a criminal act in English Law, or at the very least, was not at all expressly permitted. Alito stated Roe got their history wrong . It was a rebuttal to the historical context used in Roe. Nothing more. Hale was not cited in a case as any ratio.

Even if he was, the guy was from the 17th century FFS. There isn't a judge around back then who didn't judge on laws which now seem evil/ridiculous. It doesn't mean citing them for areas of law that have been around for centuries (e.g. Tort) isn't correct or is immoral.

That article is ridiculous.

 

[Gralin]

 

[EFL Boy]

Conservatives in regards to vaccines: "my body, my choice".

Also conservatives: Let's ban abortions.

 

[sherb]

Conservatives in regards to vaccines: "my body, my choice".

Also conservatives: Let's ban abortions.

Conservatives - we are pro life.
Also (many) conservatives - we support the death penalty.

 

[sherb]

Hale was quoted as evidence that abortion had a long history of being a criminal act in English Law, or at the very least, was not at all expressly permitted. Alito stated Roe got their history wrong . It was a rebuttal to the historical context used in Roe. Nothing more. Hale was not cited in a case as any ratio.

Even if he was, the guy was from the 17th century FFS. There isn't a judge around back then who didn't judge on laws which now seem evil/ridiculous. It doesn't mean citing them for areas of law that have been around for centuries (e.g. Tort) isn't correct or is immoral.

That article is ridiculous.

Well of course you can help justify the banning of abortion if you go back to the 17th century. That's the point.

 

[sherb]

View attachment 1392355

You can't get anything past her.

 

[Gralin]

This is roughly where most people stand.

At either end of the scale about 15% support abortion right up to birth and at the other end around 15% oppose abortion under any circumstance. Everyone else sits somewhere in the middle. Personally I reckon it should be legal up to the first trimester, then only for medical grounds thereafter.

As for the other point of course an unborn child is human life. Its obviously disingenuous to argue otherwise. What else could it be? You can be pro abortion, that is fine because its a complicated situation, however you don't get to change that fact. The debate is literally around the morality of taking the life of an unborn human being.

Where is your 15% of people support abortion up to birth coming from?
Same for the other extreme.

 

[Forward Press]

With all due respect to precedent from the 17th century...actually, wait, why are we respecting 17th century decisions when it comes to modern issues?

There were laws back then on witchcraft, miscegenation, apostasy, trepanning and all other ridiculous notions and the rulings on them should not and cannot be used as precedent or a basis for legal decisions. Even if you do go back that far - Roe v Wade was decided only 50 years ago but somehow this far more recent case should now be thrown out because of Justice Hale from 400 years ago?

 

[BruceFromBalnarring]

Conservatives in regards to vaccines: "my body, my choice".

Also conservatives: Let's ban abortions.

I think you are confusing conservatives with libertarians.

They're not the same thing.

 

[Gralin]

I think you are confusing conservatives with libertarians.

They're not the same thing.

lol

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

Fake Christian.

Fake human.

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

I think you are confusing conservatives with libertarians.

They're not the same thing.

Better that than confusing pedo’s with non-pedo’s I guess.

 

[Mofra]

Better that than confusing pedo’s with non-pedo’s I guess.

Don't ask, don't Pell

 

[Big_Birdy]

Well of course you can help justify the banning of abortion if you go back to the 17th century. That's the point.

No it isn't. The citing had nothing to do with justifying banning abortion.

Regardless, if Roe is overturned that doesn't even ban abortion. Is abortion banned in Australia? Overturning Roe would just put the US in the same position as Australia. That abortion laws are the purview of the states.

Now there is a practical effect in where it most likely be banned in most circumstances in some US states. But there is a reason consequential-ism judgments are controversial. It is possible to wish the outcome of a judgement was different but still accept that the reasoning is correct. You can also be happy with the consequences of a judgement and think the reasoning was flawed/downright wrong (a not wildly uncommon opinion in regard to Roe).

 

[Gralin]

This ****er

Victorian Liberal MP says he is 'praying' for abortion to be banned in wake of concern about US law change

Bernie Finn, who has a reputation for expressing controversial views, says he doesn't support women's right to abortion even if they are pregnant as a result of sexual assault.

www.abc.net.au

 

[Big_Birdy]

With all due respect to precedent from the 17th century...actually, wait, why are we respecting 17th century decisions when it comes to modern issues?

There were laws back then on witchcraft, miscegenation, apostasy, trepanning and all other ridiculous notions and the rulings on them should not and cannot be used as precedent or a basis for legal decisions. Even if you do go back that far - Roe v Wade was decided only 50 years ago but somehow this far more recent case should now be thrown out because of Justice Hale from 400 years ago?

Amazon product ASIN 0198761635


Great entry level book to answer your questions. Currently running about $77 on Amazon.

Great section on the differences between Civil Law and Common Law countries too for someone just beginning to learn about legal concepts.

 

[Big_Birdy]

This f***er

Victorian Liberal MP says he is 'praying' for abortion to be banned in wake of concern about US law change

Bernie Finn, who has a reputation for expressing controversial views, says he doesn't support women's right to abortion even if they are pregnant as a result of sexual assault.

www.abc.net.au

View attachment 1392428

Maybe he should pray harder.

Or better yet ask God to stop unwanted pregnancies?

 

[sherb]

No it isn't. The citing had nothing to do with justifying banning abortion.

Regardless, if Roe is overturned that doesn't even ban abortion. Is abortion banned in Australia? Overturning Roe would just put the US in the same position as Australia. That abortion laws are the purview of the states.

Now there is a practical effect in where it most likely be banned in most circumstances in some US states. But there is a reason consequential-ism judgments are controversial. It is possible to wish the outcome of a judgement was different but still accept that the reasoning is correct. You can also be happy with the consequences of a judgement and think the reasoning was flawed/downright wrong (a not wildly uncommon opinion in regard to Roe).

If your argument against abortion takes you back to the 1700s, with the societal views of the times, you don't have much of an argument. You don't seem to grasp that for some reason.

It rightfully opens you up to derision.

 

[Gralin]

Maybe he should pray harder.

Or better yet ask God to stop unwanted pregnancies?

they don't believe there are unwanted pregnancies given god decides

 

[Chief]

This f***er

Victorian Liberal MP says he is 'praying' for abortion to be banned in wake of concern about US law change

Bernie Finn, who has a reputation for expressing controversial views, says he doesn't support women's right to abortion even if they are pregnant as a result of sexual assault.

www.abc.net.au

View attachment 1392428

Wasn't he in Star Wars?

 

[BruceFromBalnarring]

If your argument against abortion takes you back to the 1700s, with the societal views of the times, you don't have much of an argument. You don't seem to grasp that for some reason.

It rightfully opens you up to derision.

Tell that to the writers of Roe v Wade. If you are going to overturn a decision, you need to address the arguments in that decision (Roe) one of which was an ancient historical argument.

 

[BruceFromBalnarring]

Don't ask, don't Pell

Nice to see moderators joining in the off topic pile on.

 

[sherb]

Tell that to the writers of Roe v Wade. If you are going to overturn a decision, you need to address the arguments in that decision (Roe) one of which was an ancient historical argument.

How do I communicate with deceased judges?