News Review into racism at Collingwood

[No SPIN]

The Club is guilty - no question, and that will be the media narrative. Any change or progress over the last few years will be ignored.
Therefore the Club must double down, and moving forward needs to implement all recommendations and thereby ensure it is beyond reproach in all such matters.

I actually think Eddies feels personally affronted to the point that he is determined to fix the issue under his watch, as the prospect of leaving the issue to others would sit uncomfortably for him.
Is it a matter of personal pride or is he seeking redemption - frankly I don’t think it matters.
But I can’t think of a more motivated person to get this right.

 

[Doc1763]

The Club is guilty - no question, and that will be the media narrative. Any change or progress over the last few years will be ignored.
Therefore the Club must double down, and moving forward needs to implement all recommendations and thereby ensure it is beyond reproach in all such matters.

I actually think Eddies feels personally affronted to the point that he is determined to fix the issue under his watch, as the prospect of leaving the issue to others would sit uncomfortably for him.
Is it a matter of personal pride or is he seeking redemption - frankly I don’t think it matters.
But I can’t think of a more motivated person to get this right.

Yeah, lets give him another 23 years. Do you think that will be enough??

 

[cityslick1]

What evidence? It was all the old stories rehashed. Please tell me what the killer blow was in this startling review?

"Old stories"? Think you mean 'existing evidence that has been around for a while, but swept under the carpet, or hushed up, until a formal review meant that it couldnt be covered up or marginalised anymore'...

 

[wcv1475]

It appears the club needs a fresh start president through to coach, I saw this in an article today and it really stood out for me Lumumba commenting about Mick being at club when all this happened "
"Mick remains a legend in AFL. I continue to have the utmost respect for him. He had a very strict and professional attitude towards his role that meant he did not fraternise with players," Lumumba tweeted.

"I have always respected Mick, particularly because of his strong stance against racist behaviour. Once, a young new Aboriginal recruit was subjected to some really cruel racism (done in the spirit of 'good fun') by members of his team, including senior players.

"Mick called the players in along with management and tore everyone to shreds. I was impressed by his response, but I can also never forget that this incident was a young Aboriginal man's induction into the AFL." What i highlighted in the text is what seems to have been missing from the club in my opinion from president through to the coach.

 

[domus]

Is it painful?

For sheep like, mob followers it is unimaginably painful and rather terrifying.

 

[domus]

It appears the club needs a fresh start president through to coach, I saw this in an article today and it really stood out for me Lumumba commenting about Mick being at club when all this happened "
"Mick remains a legend in AFL. I continue to have the utmost respect for him. He had a very strict and professional attitude towards his role that meant he did not fraternise with players," Lumumba tweeted.

"I have always respected Mick, particularly because of his strong stance against racist behaviour. Once, a young new Aboriginal recruit was subjected to some really cruel racism (done in the spirit of 'good fun') by members of his team, including senior players.

"Mick called the players in along with management and tore everyone to shreds. I was impressed by his response, but I can also never forget that this incident was a young Aboriginal man's induction into the AFL." What i highlighted in the text is what seems to have been missing from the club in my opinion from president through to the coach.

Yet Mick got torn to shreds over his racist attitude to Robbie Muir 's story a few months ago. This racism thing is so confusing.

 

[Maggie5]

It appears the club needs a fresh start president through to coach, I saw this in an article today and it really stood out for me Lumumba commenting about Mick being at club when all this happened "
"Mick remains a legend in AFL. I continue to have the utmost respect for him. He had a very strict and professional attitude towards his role that meant he did not fraternise with players," Lumumba tweeted.

"I have always respected Mick, particularly because of his strong stance against racist behaviour. Once, a young new Aboriginal recruit was subjected to some really cruel racism (done in the spirit of 'good fun') by members of his team, including senior players.

"Mick called the players in along with management and tore everyone to shreds. I was impressed by his response, but I can also never forget that this incident was a young Aboriginal man's induction into the AFL." What i highlighted in the text is what seems to have been missing from the club in my opinion from president through to the coach.

Where did you read that?

 

[JB1975]

My brother has a high profile media role.
Can't speak highly enough of Ed.
Says he is a consummate pro.
Ed bleeds black and white for your club and deserves every respect in my own book for what it's worth.

A complete distraction from the issue at hand, but the thing in your profile says that you're a member of the Australian faction of the Proud Boys.

Is this true?

 

[RFCGloryJC]

It was satirical mate.
See my profile pic. Mad Magazine.
Made a general comment not a personal one.
A footy club is a complex organisation and will face challenges time to time.
Personally, I think Ed is one of the best officials and any club would be lucky to have him at its helm.

 

[Horaceg]

I think we need to see what this all looks like in 12 months, I get the anger people are venting (perfectly acceptable) but I also see this more of the Club’s acceptance and putting the framework in place to ensure things are right moving forward. Hopefully we can all come together and get behind a Club we All want to see succeed and be the best it can be.

I love my footy and the Club is a big part of that and I have to believe this will be fixed and this report whilst confronting is necessary in that journey.

Go Pies, get it right, more action.

 

[collingwoodmick]

Didn't Krakouer and Dawes agree with H's allegations?

If I recall correctly, Macaffer also corroborated, to some extent

Apples, they’ve shown an inability to address the issues handed down in the report, and have also been levelled with further incidents.

And you are telling people to move on and leave them at the helm...

How does that work? You are suggesting they stay on and fix something they’ve shown they are not only incapable of doing, but adding to. You think we should just burn a year of development and healing?

Based on what I’ve been reading, the events dealt with in the report are historic, and some have already been addressed in part since they’ve become known. Why not let the current board continue to implement what is already in motion.
Open to new leadership - depending on experience and capabilities - but I’d be happier with the devil I know, rather than to burn a year (possibly longer) with someone potentially out of their depth/with training wheels on.
Why not use the year to seek out/lobby for the best candidates for the next AGM?

Page 3

The continual failures in this regard speak to a systemic racism within the Collingwood Football Club that must be addressed if things are to change. To this end, this review is focused on the responses of the Collingwood Football Club to incidents of racism and cultural safety in the workplace and the adequacy of the processes for addressing it.”

If the bolded sentence doesn’t hit you right between the eyes, you are part of the problem.

How can I, a humble lifetime supporter, be part of the “systemic” problem and culture within the club?
Pre-commercialisation (ie. pre-AFL era), you’d potentially have a point, depending on my participation and access within the CFC/Vic Park.
Nowadays, all I do is cough up some dough to receive a scarf/hat and a few emails per year. If I coughed up some more, I’d have a reserved seat. My participation in the club itself, and my influence over its policies and procedures, is nothing more than a monetary exchange - absolutely zero more than somebody who pays their hard earned, starting today

We have a well respected and educated consultant do a report. But now we need another consultant to work out the specifics.

For example, the membership.....

"3. That the Collingwood Football Club Board undertake a Board audit to ensure its membership, through their behaviour and beliefs, reflects its goals of diversity and individually embrace the values of the Club, including the principles of anti-racism and inclusion.

I think we all know that parts of the membership are actively racist. Is the report recommending that the club surveys members and excludes those that dont meet a certain standard? And understanding that people will lie to gain a membership, do we encourage a culture of identification of members who are clearly racist so that they are excluded from membership?

Is there another way to do this? Requirement that all members attend an educational program?

Markfs i don’t think your contention is as remote a possibility as you suggest, however the recommendation is referring to the membership of the Board, and not of the paying public at large. At least, that’s my reading of it

Page 18

In conducting this review, it became apparent that when incidents of racism arose, the work fell to individuals to both raise it and resolve it. It appeared that there was no systemic process that could support individuals that were involved. Similarly, there is a culture of individuals, if not quite being bigger than the Club, then at least having an unhealthy degree of influence over Club culture. A more inclusive and collegiate leadership approach can better realise the potential of all and help live and implement values.

I wonder who they are talking about there..................

I think I’m reading between the lines in your post, Doc - I can be a bit thick at times - however my takeaway from your extract is that the very example of an inclusive and collegiate workplace would involve the individuals themselves raising and resolving issues between them.
I think this paragraph is conflating two issues to make a subtle dig at the (allegedly) centralised influential figures within the club.

Well I believe they interviewed 30 people connected with the club. Did those people make everything up?

jmac, I don’t have any reason to doubt the recollections/allegations of the 30 people.
It’s not clear to me whether this is 30 complainants, or 30 witnesses etc.
I’ve seen the number 30 a couple of times (I’m still digesting the report and can’t recall exactly where - whether on this forum, or in the report itself) however, a quick scroll of the staff listing on the club website indicates non-playing staff (at least those currently listed - several of these may remain furloughed) exceeds 100 (looks closer to 150, discounting any duplicate listings).
Considering playing list - maybe 45 (main) + maybe 50 across AFLW & netball (not sure on the accuracy there - but still illustrates my point) - then 30 people is a small sample (maybe 12.5%) of the current composition of the club - let alone any changes over the past - say ten years (30 statements could maybe be as low as 1 in 15 people involved in the club over a ten year period) .
A simple survey-monkey of the current staff and playing groups - and maybe through the past player associations and coteries - would’ve accessed a greater sample from which to praise/condemn the effectiveness of the club’s response to racism - and verify whether it is systemic or not.
Forgive me if I’ve gone off on a tangent as I’m still trying to read this report off my phone


Note that some of the quotes above have been shortened to allow my full comment to fit within the character limit. I have not edited any words, simply reduced the size. If you think I may have unreasonably changed the context in doing so, please click on the quote itself to read the original comments in their entirety

 

[JB1975]

It was satirical mate.
See my profile pic. Mad Magazine.
Made a general comment not a personal one.
A footy club is a complex organisation and will face challenges time to time.
Personally, I think Ed is one of the best officials and any club would be lucky to have him at its helm.

So does this mean that your supportive comment about Ed was satirical?

You have to help me out, mate, I'm easily confused.

 

[RFCGloryJC]

So does this mean that your supportive comment about Ed was satirical?

You have to help me out, mate, I'm easily confused.

Stop challenging my comments personally mate.
I don't challenge your right to free speech.
I was saying Ed is highly respected in the media and community.
Grass is greener if you think someone new takes over, waves a magic wand, and a club is automatically better.
Anyway take care.
If anything, I think it took guts to face the presser.
Just my take.

 

[jmac70]

If I recall correctly, Macaffer also corroborated, to some extent


Based on what I’ve been reading, the events dealt with in the report are historic, and some have already been addressed in part since they’ve become known. Why not let the current board continue to implement what is already in motion.
Open to new leadership - depending on experience and capabilities - but I’d be happier with the devil I know, rather than to burn a year (possibly longer) with someone potentially out of their depth/with training wheels on.
Why not use the year to seek out/lobby for the best candidates for the next AGM?



How can I, a humble lifetime supporter, be part of the “systemic” problem and culture within the club?
Pre-commercialisation (ie. pre-AFL era), you’d potentially have a point, depending on my participation and access within the CFC/Vic Park.
Nowadays, all I do is cough up some dough to receive a scarf/hat and a few emails per year. If I coughed up some more, I’d have a reserved seat. My participation in the club itself, and my influence over its policies and procedures, is nothing more than a monetary exchange - absolutely zero more than somebody who pays their hard earned, starting today


Markfs i don’t think your contention is as remote a possibility as you suggest, however the recommendation is referring to the membership of the Board, and not of the paying public at large. At least, that’s my reading of it


I think I’m reading between the lines in your post, Doc - I can be a bit thick at times - however my takeaway from your extract is that the very example of an inclusive and collegiate workplace would involve the individuals themselves raising and resolving issues between them.
I think this paragraph is conflating two issues to make a subtle dig at the (allegedly) centralised influential figures within the club.


jmac, I don’t have any reason to doubt the recollections/allegations of the 30 people.
It’s not clear to me whether this is 30 complainants, or 30 witnesses etc.
I’ve seen the number 30 a couple of times (I’m still digesting the report and can’t recall exactly where - whether on this forum, or in the report itself) however, a quick scroll of the staff listing on the club website indicates non-playing staff (at least those currently listed - several of these may remain furloughed) exceeds 100 (looks closer to 150, discounting any duplicate listings).
Considering playing list - maybe 45 (main) + maybe 50 across AFLW & netball (not sure on the accuracy there - but still illustrates my point) - then 30 people is a small sample (maybe 12.5%) of the current composition of the club - let alone any changes over the past - say ten years (30 statements could maybe be as low as 1 in 15 people involved in the club over a ten year period) .
A simple survey-monkey of the current staff and playing groups - and maybe through the past player associations and coteries - would’ve accessed a greater sample from which to praise/condemn the effectiveness of the club’s response to racism - and verify whether it is systemic or not.
Forgive me if I’ve gone off on a tangent as I’m still trying to read this report off my phone


Note that some of the quotes above have been shortened to allow my full comment to fit within the character limit. I have not edited any words, simply reduced the size. If you think I may have unreasonably changed the context in doing so, please click on the quote itself to read the original comments in their entirety

I don't know who the 30 are either. A few posters seem to want to discredit the report, even though the club has accepted the findings.

 

[Woody15]

My brother has a high profile media role.
Can't speak highly enough of Ed.
Says he is a consummate pro.
Ed bleeds black and white for your club and deserves every respect in my own book for what it's worth.

Lol. A pro..

Towards the end, a reporter asked McGuire whether it might have been helpful to acknowledge some of the “awful” incidents which had taken place under the Collingwood Football Club banner.

After reiterating his opening “day of pride” comment, Eddie responded: “I don’t know what you mean because we’re putting in place all the recommendations. We hear a lot of talk in this space; we’re doing something … yes, in a period there are mishaps along the journey, as there’s been in all walks of life and all organisations.”

Pulled up by the same reporter as to whether the word “mishap” threatened to trivialise what was actually acknowledged as racism, McGuire got a little annoyed.

“I’m sorry I haven’t brought my thesaurus with me. I don’t think anyone’s making light of or trying to diminish the message today,” he said. “There shouldn’t be anyone trying to have a ‘gotcha’ moment here.”

Eddie is a gaffe prone boob. He is no pro at all.

 

[jmac70]

Stop challenging my comments personally mate.
I don't challenge your right to free speech.
I was saying Ed is highly respected in the media and community.
Grass is greener if you think someone new takes over, waves a magic wand, and a club is automatically better.
Anyway take care.

I wouldn't say he's highly respected in the community.

 

[RFCGloryJC]

Everyone has a different opinion.
They're a public figure.
Some people like them, some people hate them.
But to denigrate Ed's contribution over the years is insane in my own book.
There's never going to be a single answer.

 

[Markfs]

Markfs i don’t think your contention is as remote a possibility as you suggest, however the recommendation is referring to the membership of the Board, and not of the paying public at large. At least, that’s my reading of it

No you're right. I misread it - probably because I was thinking that sections of the club's membership are a large part of the problem and I was hoping to see how the report would advise how to deal with it. At any rate, it seems that post was deleted for some reason. Maybe its a subtle hint to move along...

 

[Woody15]

Everyone has a different opinion.
They're a public figure.
Some people like them, some people hate them.
But to denigrate Ed's contribution over the years is insane in my own book.
There's never going to be a single answer.

Insane in my book is defending his approach and performance in the press conference today.

 

[RFCGloryJC]

Fair enough.
Each to their own.
I was speaking in general though, not just today.
Everyone has a different opinion.

 

[76woodenspooners]

The authors also make me skeptical. Both of them are academics with a preconceived worldview where everything is seen through a racial lens. The outcome of the report was only going to lead to one conclusion once I saw their credentials.

In a parallel universe a different report is released ...

... with exactly the same conclusions ...

... but with very different justifications.

“CFC should embrace diversity in all of its forms because that leads to diversity of opinion, innovation, and ability to adapt weLL to ever changing environments. This all leads to very strong competitive advantage ”

”CFC should take a holistic approach to organisational recruitment to create a vibrant and dynamic high performance environment.”

 

[jmac70]

Well, what a crap day. Good night.

 

[Cactus_]

Didn't Krakouer and Dawes agree with H's allegations?

I hope you don’t mind me intruding.

This is from an article on the ABC website (about Lumumba being called “chimp” during his time at Collingwood):

Lumumba's experiences have been corroborated by six of his teammates. Andrew Krakouer, Leon Davis, Chris Dawes, Chris Egan, Brent Macaffer and Shae McNamara have all registered public support. Others look on in silence.

"They bit their tongue and that's what they have to live with for the rest of their life," McNamara told Seven News in June.

 

[Bont2Bruce]

This was posted by Ron The Bear on the main board. Surprised me as I had led myself to believe that we would be at the bottom, so I don't believe we will do that. Further we have bid on players but not been successfull.

Interesting to look at the number of Aboriginal representatives for each club since McGuire took over (Collingwood had zero at the time, and only two prior):

31 Fremantle
28 Port Adelaide
22 West Coast
18 Adelaide, Essendon, Melbourne
17 Brisbane
16 North Melbourne, Richmond
15 Gold Coast, Hawthorn, St.Kilda
14 Collingwood, Western Bulldogs
13 Carlton, Geelong
11 Sydney
8 GWS

Don't worry, we're currently the only club that has zero indigenous players (and has had for at least a few years now) so as troubling as today's news would be for you folk they can't accuse you of being where my club is on this topic.

 

[HeathySure]

Don't worry, we're currently the only club that has zero indigenous players (and has had for at least a few years now) so as troubling as today's news would be for you folk they can't accuse you of being where my club is on this topic.

Isnt Ugle Hagen indigenous?