Autopsy Roast & Toast vs Port Adelaide, Rd 4 2019, & changes for Sydney

[THE_GUN]

higgins, bolton, rioli, edwards, balta, stack, baker, dusty, caddy, jack, lynch...

remember when we had no x factor?

I was on of the people 'Screaming' that we were only drafting Vanilla players and the players that we were bringing to the club were only selected due to 'Good Character' and not top end talent.

Conca , B. Ellis , Lemon , Vlastuin , C.Ellis i hated all these selections and still do to be honest and only 1 from that lot i rate higher now than i did at the time of them being drafted and thats Vlastuin who has become a sensation player and leader. But in my defence i wanted us to draft Brodie Grundy who goes ok as well.

 

[tropicaltiger]

The old George baker selection,,, little green bag

 

[Rich o man]

The 2009 draft is probably Melbourne's biggest nightmare.

Not only did they miss Dusty with Picks 1 & 2, but they had first pick in the pre-season draft. They had Jack Grimes (drafted 2007) who to be fair, at that stage was looking like a future gun (they eventually made him Captain). And look! His brother's in the pre-season draft! We've got Pick! I mean, surely........

Poor old Richmond missed out on future-millionaire-but-decidedly-average-footballer Joel McDonald, and were left with Jack's obviously not-very-good younger brother, Dylan. Thanks Dees!

(Still, Melbourne did eventually do one thing right - the Grimes' boys have good family genes, so when Jack was playing out his last year in the magoos at Melbourne, he suddenly got a call-up for two late-season senior games - and finished his career on 100.)

Tanking?

 

[Willo_23]

View attachment 656041

What an image! Why do I get the feeling we're going to look back on this photo in the same vein that Cats fans look at the below:

 

[mad_tiggy911]

Then they pumped them with drugs. Shouldn't count.

 

[Bazzar]

Maybe we can all agree that none of us actually have any clue about who will come out for Dusty, only that Dusty will definitely play?

Think you might have overlooked the point

 

[RFCGloryJC]

Have always liked Ling.
I remember the match, in 2015, when we scored eight goals in one quarter against Collingwood and he said Richmond could go all the way, at least top four.
No one else said it.
That was the round seven match too, not the latter one when we annihilated them.

 

[joelsyt]

Think you might have overlooked the point

I think it may have been a joke that went over my head.

Sorry!

 

[Grrr]

I am not exaggerating . Your words"Also Martin is no half forward" so you are saying Martin is limited in what he can do!!!

Half forwards do not have to chase half backs if there are other defensive mechanisms. There are different ways to skin a cat and nothing is black and white!!! If we are kicking more goals less need to defend points that do not occur from better accuracy. Dusty might play a higher half forward anyway and we might be stronger in the defensive set-up through the midfield. Rioli and others like Castagna can still do their thing with Dusty loitering outside the forward 50 metre being a offensive and contested threat!! If Gary Ablett senior is kicking 14 goals from the wing/half forward I am inclined to think your less worried about the defensive mechanism!! Now Dusty is not as good as Gary Ablett senior was but the point is you do not waste Gary Ablett senior in the guts!!!

Now lets look at your stats. Correlation does not mean causation and are you comparing apples to oranges??


Ranking number 1 for inside 50 metres has little to do with clearances. Sure there is some but a lot of that would be to do with ground positioning and his heat map would suggest he is in the forward half a lot which is fine but not necessarily to do with inside clearances!!

score assists ranking no.1. So what??? Again in fact probably even less to do with clearances. See last paragraph. However, just if Martin is on a wing or half forward that does not mean he cannot participate in a clearance in the forward 50 metre or a wing unlike a animal that is corralled!! In fact like a rotating ruck surely it would make sense for Dusty to take the clearance in the forward half in certain situations and save the legs of a Ross and/or Graham up the ground so our team has more energy to do more across the ground in terms of our offensive and defensive mechanisms!

Now your last stat. centre bounce clearances 3.4. This stat is a lot more relevant except for few limiters. This stat is a quantity stat that is no measure on the quality of the clearance and the opportunity cost of Martin having an even better effect elsewhere. Can you break it down???? What where the centre bounce clearances, handballs, hack kicks and how many resulted in acute strategic advantage for our team?? How many of those stats could have reasonably been achieved by an effective substitute like Ross and/or Graham in the same set of circumstances?? How was the stat measured??? Do they include handball receives from Prestia, etc...???

These stats, of themselves, does not mean Dusty is the leagues best centre clearance player!! IMO they are more likely to place credence to Dusty being effective in the forward half!

Dusty won a Brownlow playing midfield in the main, resting usually deep forward. Yet you say we should play him as a half forward so Graham can play midfield. I'll back Dusty to get back into the groove. He may never hit the heights of 2017, but he may reach 2018, which still makes him a gun.

And as far as best centre clearance player, they are all measured the same. Dusty was top in 2018 and miles in front in 2017. Martin's centre clearance I can almost guarantee would be one of the leagues most effective also due to his ability to muscle space and his booming kick, especially in comparison to second place Mitchell for example. Of course I am not able to break down where and how, but it is pretty obvious that he is one of the most effective mids in the comp.

 

[Schlurp]

The old George baker selection,,, little green bag

With a little Stealers Wheel added to the mix. Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, here I am stuck in the midfield with you.

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

With a little Stealers Wheel added to the mix. Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, here I am stuck in the midfield with you.

 

[Grrr]

Ok so seems like Graham is the new whipping boy.

Poor kid.

What do you mean poor kid. He is in the bottom 6 of our side, those spots are always up for grabs. Ellis, MacIntosh, Butler have all be dropped at some stage and usually come back better players. He is not my whipping boy, but he is in the bottom 6, especially in a full strength side and with the emergence of some cracking kids who you can bet will go on to be very good players. If Graham was quicker he would be an automatic selection, but like a lot of slowish players (relative to where he plays) they struggle a bit.

 

[Mr Magic]

Dusty won a Brownlow playing midfield in the main, resting usually deep forward. Yet you say we should play him as a half forward so Graham can play midfield. I'll back Dusty to get back into the groove. He may never hit the heights of 2017, but he may reach 2018, which still makes him a gun.

And as far as best centre clearance player, they are all measured the same. Dusty was top in 2018 and miles in front in 2017. Martin's centre clearance I can almost guarantee would be one of the leagues most effective also due to his ability to muscle space and his booming kick, especially in comparison to second place Mitchell for example. Of course I am not able to break down where and how, but it is pretty obvious that he is one of the most effective mids in the comp.

What makes you think Dusty is out of his groove??? I never said Dusty should just play half forward either. I simply prefer him in more space so the team including Dusty can exploit his talents better!!

Dusty did not win the Brownlow necessarily because of his exclusive clearance work as I stated before.

The best players do not necessarily operate as extractors but extractors are needed in the game!!!

Centre clearance players are not measured the same, you need to ask how each person measures them and forms their own opinion!!! The game is measured on success, not who counts what stats but how they win the ball, how they dispose of the ball and how they defend the opposition!!!

Martin has more ability to muscle space and use his booming kick if in more space instead of in a confined space. It obviously is easier for Dusty to more frequently push away from one or two of the opposition than three or four in a more confined space making Dusty more effective and the team more imposing!!

Why do you want to limit Dusty to an extractor???

It sounds to me like you are protecting the prospects of others at half forward in my opinion especially defensive ones where defence is of greater relevance defending opposition scoring especially with the new rule changes meaning their is more defensive mechanisms beyond the 50 metre arcs creating lower scoring !!

I am not going to argue with you anymore given the lack of substantiation to your argument.

The facts are Dusty's pace, strength and power and booming kicks are better utilised in more space because their is less resistance and he can create greater inertia and time to execute the delivery. This is a scientific fact one cannot dispute. It little difference who kicks it if it is bombed in from a clearance with a lack of penetration!!!

The fact is at the absolute coal face the best extractors have the quickest minds, can handball quickly, have the reach and make quick decisions with awareness of teammates around them. The fact is it may be Jack Ross is simply a better extractor than Dusty because lets face it, Tom Mitchell is not lightening fast, nor does he have power personified. Sam Mitchell was great due to his step and clean disposal and his ability to create space. It could well be Dusty is far more effective on the end of a Jack Ross handball in more space, than providing the handball himself from less space, such as coming in from a wing position!!! Clearance work is not just about getting the ball, it is also about stopping the opposition getting the ball as well and going again yet you think defence is more important in the oppositions forward fifty(try explain that when Dangerfield is running out from a centre bounce clearance kicking a goal recently, something Rory Laird is limited in doing from the half back line)!!!

 

[Grrr]

What makes you think Dusty is out of his groove??? I never said Dusty should just play half forward either. I simply prefer him in more space so the team including Dusty can exploit his talents better!!

Dusty did not win the Brownlow necessarily because of his exclusive clearance work as I said before.

The best players do not necessarily operate as extractors but extractors are needed in the game!!!

Centre clearance players are not measured the same, you need to ask how each person measures them and forms their own opinion!!! The game is measured on success not who counts what stats!!!

Martin has more ability to muscle space and use his booming kick if in more space instead of in a confined space.

Why do you want to limit Dusty to an extractor???

It sounds to me like you are protecting the prospects of others at half forward in my opinion especially defensive ones where defence is of greater relevance defending opposition scoring especially with the new rule changes meaning their is more defensive mechanisms beyond the 50 metre arcs creating lower scoring !!

I am not going to argue with you anymore given the lack of substantiation to your argument.

The facts are Dusty's pace, strength and power and booming kicks are better utilised in more space because their is less resistance and he can create greater inertia and time to execute the delivery. This is a scientific fact one cannot dispute. It does not matter who kicks it if it is bombed in from a clearance!!!

The fact is at the absolute coal face the best extractors have the quickest minds, can handball quickly, have the reach and make quick decisions with awareness of teammates around them. The fact is it may be Jack Ross is simply a better extractor than Dusty because lets face it, Tom Mitchell is not lightening fast, nor does he have power personified. Sam Mitchell was great due to his step and clean disposal and his ability to create space. It could well be Dusty is far more effective on the end of a Jack Ross handball in more space than providing the handball himself from less space such as coming in from a wing position!!! Clearance work is not just about getting the ball, it is also about stopping the opposition getting the ball as well and going again!!!

No, best we put this argument to bed. One thing we do agree on, Richmond will be a better side with Ross in the middle.

 

[Mr Magic]

No, best we put this argument to bed. One thing we do agree on, Richmond will be a better side with Ross in the middle.

That all depends on how Ross applies himself, stays healthy, and how the team plays around him, nothing is a given! Most of the development and improvement occurs organically over time with experience and opportunity.

We have seen a very small sample size which is why a bit of trial and error is not a bad thing to give our team the opportunity, to potentially play better in a different way and to allow us to potentially be more competitive!!

 

[SA_Tiger11]

To be fair to Graham I watched the replay last night and he wasn’t that bad. I think we will require his solid frame against Sydney. Thing is with Jack he plays some pretty average games where he barely touches it (but still applys great pressure) and then plays very good games (round 1). I think he will play a very good game this weekend.

 

[UpTheTigs]

why would you drop balta

wtf

Assuming Riewoldt comes back in, having Balta + Lynch + Riewoldt + Caddy up forward is far too tall.

Swans only have Sinclair to ruck, which Nankervis can handle with no problems. Riewoldt can chop out.

Can't see what Balta adds at this stage other than cover for talls and ruck chop-outs for Nank. Will be a star one day, but not yet.

Pressure won us a flag and the game Vs Port.

 

[Hank Heavenly]

Assuming Riewoldt comes back in, having Balta + Lynch + Riewoldt + Caddy up forward is far too tall.

Swans only have Sinclair to ruck, which Nankervis can handle with no problems. Riewoldt can chop out.

Can't see what Balta adds at this stage other than cover for talls and ruck chop-outs for Nank. Will be a star one day, but not yet.

Pressure won us a flag and the game Vs Port.

Won't play, and he was TERRIBLE in the ruck... Should never see it again.

What I think will happen will be that only one of Caddy and Balta will be in the forward line at any one time...

Rk: Nank
Fd: Caddy
Bn: Balta
Probably 50% game time

Rk: Nank
Fd: Balta
Bn: Caddy
Probably 15% game time

Rk: Balta
Fd: Caddy
Bn: Nank
Probably 15% game time

Rk: Balta
Fd: Nank
Bn: Caddy
Probably 10% game time

Something like this worked for WCE last year with Kennedy, Darling, Vardy, Lycett

 

[guruisatiger]

With a little Stealers Wheel added to the mix. Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, here I am stuck in the midfield with you.

Love your work, how about- baker street- with Gerry Rafferty

 

[joelsyt]

No, best we put this argument to bed. One thing we do agree on, Richmond will be a better side with Ross in the middle.

I agree with you with this.

We need Ross in the middle. I’ll be pretty upset if he gets dropped for dusty. The kid well and truely deserves a second call-up this week.

Thankfully I don’t think he’ll be dropped.

 

[DickieKnee]

Bottom line is whoever gets dropped this week for Dusty and the other senior players coming back will be unlucky.

 

[Grrr]

I agree with you with this.

We need Ross in the middle. I’ll be pretty upset if he gets dropped for dusty. The kid well and truely deserves a second call-up this week.

Thankfully I don’t think he’ll be dropped.

Ross has no chance of being dropped.

 

[JAKLAUGHING]

Bottom line is whoever gets dropped this week for Dusty and the other senior players coming back will be unlucky.

Unlucky for the oppo!!!

 

[Wooden Robot]

Would those "aforementioned" players be playing if Rance, Dusty, Cotch, Jack, Houli, Caddy first 3 weeks, and Short, were playing? No. So its a bit rich pumping up Mopsy and yourself as some great visionarys. Fact is , they were always going to be first picked depth players.

And out of curiosity, did either of you pick the emergence of Stack so early?

Of course I'd play those you mentioned first, but Ross, Balta and Stack ahead of the likes of BEllis, Castagna, Butler who are dining out on two years ago and of course ahead of the St Kilda bloke Mav and the bloke called Markov.
But glad that BEllis played his one in 10 game to ensure his spot on the side til his next good game in round 15.
Still props to mopsy for identifying a bloke like Ross and Stack could thrive from day one.

 

[Bazzar]

Of course I'd play those you mentioned first, but Ross, Balta and Stack ahead of the likes of BEllis, Castagna, Butler who are dining out on two years ago and of course ahead of the St Kilda bloke Mav and the bloke called Markov.
But glad that BEllis played his one in 10 game to ensure his spot on the side til his next good game in round 15.
Still props to mopsy for identifying a bloke like Ross and Stack could thrive from day one.

How long have you been one of Santa's alt accounts?