Toast Ross Lyon returns to St.Kilda #UnfinishedBusiness

Happy?

  • Yes

    Votes: 225 86.2%
  • No

    Votes: 36 13.8%

  • Total voters
    261

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Gallagher joined Sept 2018. Didn’t have much time before that year’s trade and draft period. Been pretty messy ever since with Covid etc. I’m still not sure why he gets the grief that he does.


Because even if that wasn't him, his job is to manage the list including profiles of ages and types. We look short on talls and have amassed too many third tall backs. Still haven't addressed a star midfielder from draft or trade, sold players cheap but paid high to bring them in, we have a few holes in the small forward, tall backs and have the least youth of any side in the comp.

I think he should be under pressure. I'm happy to see what Ross can do with the list that those guys built but from what I've heard he was identified in the Noble report as well. Anyway. I'd rather enjoy the positive forum than go over the issues. I'm confident that if anyone doesn't perform that Bassat and Walsh will make the hard calls and chase someone better.
 
Whose fault was it to top up?
Was it ratten, football manger, Gallagher, toce or others.


I suspect that it happened after Lethlean did his review so I probably blame Lethlean more than Gags who probably did what was asked of him.
 

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Wasn't a 'top up' we had gaping holes in defence (Howard), small forwards who could pressure (Butler), some help for Marshall (Paddy) some run in the middle (Jones) and some outside run (Hill).
All was desperately needed.


You can draft though. We probably weren't at the point to top up and would have been much better to draft them ourselves. Harrison Petty went a couple of picks after Clavarino. If we didn't have Howard perhaps we would have had to play Clav and he would have made it even. Butler was not a huge issue because he came for pocket change. Some topping up is low risk and necessary. You just want to balance it all so that it's a responsible and sustainable list build.

We didn't desperately need them right at that moment. To build a great list you have to do the bulk work through the draft, then ice the cake.
 
You can draft though. We probably weren't at the point to top up and would have been much better to draft them ourselves. Harrison Petty went a couple of picks after Clavarino. If we didn't have Howard perhaps we would have had to play Clav and he would have made it even. Butler was not a huge issue because he came for pocket change. Some topping up is low risk and necessary. You just want to balance it all so that it's a responsible and sustainable list build.

We didn't desperately need them right at that moment. To build a great list you have to do the bulk work through the draft, then ice the cake.
But Petty in a side not supported by Lever and May and you would find he is a ver average footballer.

Clavarino would look decent in the Dees back 6
 
Gallagher joined Sept 2018. Didn’t have much time before that year’s trade and draft period. Been pretty messy ever since with Covid etc. I’m still not sure why he gets the grief that he does.
He’s got us to competitive and that’s all he’s capable of. He filled the list with list cloggers and after four years we have one likely A grader in King who anybody could’ve picked. Four years is a big enough sample size to know he’s no good and instead of hoping he’ll get better we have to find somebody we know who is.
 
He’s got us to competitive and that’s all he’s capable of. He filled the list with list cloggers and after four years we have one likely A grader in King who anybody could’ve picked. Four years is a big enough sample size to know he’s no good and instead of hoping he’ll get better we have to find somebody we know who is.
Can’t call it for 12 months.

Partly the reason Ratten got the sack.
 
Because even if that wasn't him, his job is to manage the list including profiles of ages and types. We look short on talls and have amassed too many third tall backs. Still haven't addressed a star midfielder from draft or trade, sold players cheap but paid high to bring them in, we have a few holes in the small forward, tall backs and have the least youth of any side in the comp.

I think he should be under pressure. I'm happy to see what Ross can do with the list that those guys built but from what I've heard he was identified in the Noble report as well. Anyway. I'd rather enjoy the positive forum than go over the issues. I'm confident that if anyone doesn't perform that Bassat and Walsh will make the hard calls and chase someone better.
Jeez I'd hate to work for you.:)

Fix this!!!! - No fix that!!!! - NO NO NO when I said I wanted you to fix that, you should have known I really wanted you to fix something else!!!

I think he's done a pretty good job of restructuring our list given its state when he arrived (and the fact we aren't a destination club) so unless we pay significant overs we aren't attracting absolute guns. (Though getting Crouch for absolutely nothing was fantastic list management)

I'm predicting that after we get 4 more kids in the draft this year after losing Ryder, Hanneberry, Geary etc you'll be complaining about how young and inexperienced our list.:D
 
But Petty in a side not supported by Lever and May and you would find he is a ver average footballer.

Clavarino would look decent in the Dees back 6
Both Wilkie and Howard rated Clavarino and were surprised he got delisted
 
But Petty in a side not supported by Lever and May and you would find he is a ver average footballer.

Clavarino would look decent in the Dees back 6


So is Howard at the moment.
 

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Jeez I'd hate to work for you.:)

Fix this!!!! - No fix that!!!! - NO NO NO when I said I wanted you to fix that, you should have known I really wanted you to fix something else!!!

I think he's done a pretty good job of restructuring our list given its state when he arrived (and the fact we aren't a destination club) so unless we pay significant overs we aren't attracting absolute guns. (Though getting Crouch for absolutely nothing was fantastic list management)

I'm predicting that after we get 4 more kids in the draft this year after losing Ryder, Hanneberry, Geary etc you'll be complaining about how young and inexperienced our list.:D


I've been consistent all the way through. We are getting kids now which is arse ways about but at least we have worked it out. I'm happy to see what we are going to do under Ross and hopefully we are building to something in a couple of years. I'll be happy if we are a tough competitive outfit with systems and structure. At least the kids won't be learning bad habits.

We have to nail those draft picks and Chris Toce probably has the club and plenty of administrators careers in his hands this trade period. Especially if we are trading out of next year's draft to go all in on this one.

I'm just happy that the club has finally worked out that what they were doing wasn't the right path. They have pretty much done most of what I've been asking for so far. Pretty confident that they might finally have got themselves aimed in the right direction now.
 
So is Howard at the moment.
News flash. I don’t think Howard is the attacking key defender Ratten and co tried to make him be.

Shut down first. - which I think Ross will help with and he needs 2 ways mids to soak the ground between them and the ball carrier.
 
News flash. I don’t think Howard is the attacking key defender Ratten and co tried to make him be.

Shut down first. - which I think Ross will help with and he needs 2 ways mids to soak the ground between them and the ball carrier.
There was a period where Howard just did the simple things and looked a lot better player. But having said that, when he's trying things and getting them wrong, he's still not having bags of goals kicked on him.
Suffers in here from people only talking about what they don't like about his game rather than his core role which he performs pretty well every week.
 
There was a period where Howard just did the simple things and looked a lot better player. But having said that, when he's trying things and getting them wrong, he's still not having bags of goals kicked on him.
Suffers in here from people only talking about what they don't like about his game rather than his core role which he performs pretty well every week.
I like Howard.

My issue with him is that I think he is asked to do more then his capability.

He isn’t a. Elite shut down and INTERCEPTOR.

He should shut down first and foremost. Let the likes of Coffield take the intercepts.

More of a team response as opposed to individuals
 
I think he's done a pretty good job of restructuring our list given its state when he arrived (and the fact we aren't a destination club) so unless we pay significant overs we aren't attracting absolute guns. (Though getting Crouch for absolutely nothing was fantastic list management)

As with most list management calls, the obviously good ones like Crouch aren't the issue. Everyone here was in favour of getting him, and we were happy we held out and got him for free. Great work.

The only clear problem I can see with his list management was the Hill negotiation. (Maybe also picking up a bunch of older guys to fill gaps but that feels more like club strategy.)

Everyone on here wanted Hill but it was immediately really clear we overpaid. A first, a second, a fourth and Acres felt like a huge price to everyone, and it's proven to be the case. He needed Hill to turn out an absolute superstar to justify that and obviously that hasn't happened.

Paying that huge price hurt both our 2019 and 2020 drafts, and so the only draft-age players we got in two full years were Byrnes, Connolly, Jack Bell, Allison, Heath. If he goes, that will be why.
 
News flash. I don’t think Howard is the attacking key defender Ratten and co tried to make him be.

Shut down first. - which I think Ross will help with and he needs 2 ways mids to soak the ground between them and the ball carrier.


I'm not that down on our list don't get me wrong. A decent coach probably has them playing finals the last 2 years but I'm critical about the way we did it. We built for immediate impact and gave up the future to do it then skimped on the coaching and support crew. Howard's fine, I just wouldn't have traded for him and Ryder with a high pick at that point. It was the time to draft and now instead of having a bunch of kids that came through together we have a bit of a messy list that Ross is going to have to extract every drop from early and hope the new kids are better than most of what we have drafted in the last decade.

Crouch and Steele are two of the better 2 way mids so he should have that.
 
Agreed. I think the Guardian article is the best thing I've read on Rossy's return. I thought this was a good summary:

Ask football people about him and you’ll get 100 different answers. He’s pitiless; he’s caring. He’s hilarious; he’s boorish. He ruins football; he understands it better than anyone else. He builds lifelong relationships; he leaves his clubs in disarray. He’s too rigid; he’s five years ahead of the competition.

I guess I'll put my cards on the table. I absolutely loved Ross when he coached us - he turned a bunch of soft pretenders into a hardened, scary outfit. I didn't begrudge him leaving us at all. I really hoped he'd get that premiership at Freo. I was bemused at all the people on here who poured so much hate on him after he left.

But I wasn't blind to his faults. After he left, we fell in a hole, both emotionally and from a list point of view. The club was broken, and he has to wear some of the responsibility for that. I hated the way he spoke to journalists who were just doing their job. He sexually harrassed a pregnant employee at Freo.

IMO you can't claim (though many on here have) that this has been a proper process. Some have claimed that appointing Ross was our only option because it was too late to run a proper process, which really proves the point that this has been a debacle. Unlike most on here, I'm very skeptical of the people running the club.

I'm fearful that this is the wrong decision, but I'm also excited in spite of myself because he was an incredible coach in his heyday and he will at least bring the rigour and pursuit of excellence that we've so sorely lacked. We haven't run a proper process for the last three coaches now. but the last two times we ran a proper process, we got Scott Watters and Ross Lyon. So there are no certainties. I just really hope Ross can bring the magic back.
You're forgetting one thing though: Walsh. That appointment is the masterstroke. He'll be keeping an eye on Lyon.
 
Gags is the one who tried to ship off Clark, Ratts was the one who said what the feck are you doing trying to ship him out
Don't know if Gallagher was the one that did the exit interviews with Clark where he was told to pull his finger out.

The idea would come from the coach for him to explore his options. Doubt the list manager would have done that.
 
Because even if that wasn't him, his job is to manage the list including profiles of ages and types. We look short on talls and have amassed too many third tall backs. Still haven't addressed a star midfielder from draft or trade, sold players cheap but paid high to bring them in, we have a few holes in the small forward, tall backs and have the least youth of any side in the comp.

I think he should be under pressure. I'm happy to see what Ross can do with the list that those guys built but from what I've heard he was identified in the Noble report as well. Anyway. I'd rather enjoy the positive forum than go over the issues. I'm confident that if anyone doesn't perform that Bassat and Walsh will make the hard calls and chase someone better.

All much easier said than done. You can only recruit who is available, who wants to come to the club and if an oppo club is happy with what is being offered.

I've got no issue with upgrading Gags to Cripps or someone with more runs on the board but he does cop an unfair rap IMO.

It will be fascinating to see what influence Ross & the new set up has on attracting players to the club. We certainly seem to be in a much better shape to drag a few through the door.
 

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Toast Ross Lyon returns to St.Kilda #UnfinishedBusiness

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