Autopsy Round 10, 2024: St.Kilda v Fremantle

[g_TRAIN]

Yep. Listen to Andy Brayshaw talk about how he wouldn't be the player he is today if Ross Lyon hadn't taught him how to play AFL. Ross instills the right kind of discipline, mindset and understanding of the game. Nearly all the young guys he had at the Dockers in his last 2 years have succeeded and they all pay credit to him when interviewed. Whether or not he stays with this group beyond the next 2 years, he's the right guy to ingrain the right habits and standards for elite performance, just as Paul Roos did at Melbourne.

The other stat (probably already mentioned) that was interesting was:

2021 (Ratten) – avg 75 points per game
2022 (Ratten) – avg 77 points per game
2023 (Lyon) – avg 77 points per game
2024 (Lyon) – avg 72 points per game to date (was 77 points per game after round 8)

We have not meaningfully changed our scoring since Lyon took over. Ratten was no better offensively, despite having a midfield in 2021 with a fit AA Steele, Ryder, Crouch, plus Jones and Billings playing at a higher level. It's all perception.

We have meaningfully improved our defence though. Ratten couldn't coach defence at the Blues or Saints.

Until our midfield improves, we will struggle to score heavily. Crouch and Clark fit will help but the real improvement comes via the young guys learning and continually hitting the draft.

Good post and I agree. We were piss poor in offence under Ratten and Richo as well with very minor exceptions. We need more people around here looking bigger picture and not just running with the weekly narrative whatever that is and their own un-tested half baked opinions.

The midfield is where it all starts. (You don't need to be the best but you need to have some quality there especially around clearance and ball use)

 

[Remboy]

Until our midfield improves, we will struggle to score heavily. Crouch and Clark fit will help but the real improvement comes via the young guys learning and continually hitting the draft.

I think that’s it in a nutshell. Improve the midfield and the forwards will look better. And that will probably come through the draft and guys like Windy,Wilson, Pou, Henry going to another level.

 

[phantom13]

Our midfield is properly shit but it is interesting to look at the last 2 premiers midfields.

Geelong and Collingwood didn’t have the best midfields by any stretch, probably somewhere between 5 and 10th if you ranked on pure talent. So you don’t need the BEST midfield.

You need to capitalize on your strengths. We’re not doing that at the moment.

I’m all for us bottoming out and getting some genuine A grade midfield talent but even when we do it probably won’t make us the best midfield in the comp, so we still need to use the pieces we’ve got and build a gameplan around that.

 

[Saintbloke]

Our midfield is properly s**t but it is interesting to look at the last 2 premiers midfields.

Geelong and Collingwood didn’t have the best midfields by any stretch, probably somewhere between 5 and 10th if you ranked on pure talent. So you don’t need the BEST midfield.

You need to capitalize on your strengths. We’re not doing that at the moment.

I’m all for us bottoming out and getting some genuine A grade midfield talent but even when we do it probably won’t make us the best midfield in the comp, so we still need to use the pieces we’ve got and build a gameplan around that.

Better off getting Banger and Goddard out of the line coaching roles in the forward and midfield, and getting someone in there who might make a difference

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Turnovers : Average 2024.
Bonner 5.1
Hill 4.8
Windhager 4.8
Sinclair 4.7
Marshall 4.6
Steel 4
W-M 4
Battle 3.6
Byrnes 3.3
Wilson 3.2
Owens 3.1

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Forward 50 Ground Ball Get's - average
Higgins 3.3
Garcia 2.2
Membrey 1.9
Caminiti 1.5
Paton 1.5
Wilson 1.5
Owens 1.3
King 1.1

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Hitouts to advantage %.
Hayes : 50
Membrey :33
Marshall : 24

 

[The Punter]

Hitouts to advantage %.
Hayes : 50
Membrey :33
Marshall : 24

For context, this season both Membrey and Hayes have two hit outs to advantage each.

 

[Dr Spaceman]

Hitouts to advantage %.
Hayes : 50
Membrey :33
Marshall : 24

For context, this season both Membrey and Hayes have two hit outs to advantage each.

For further context I doubt either, but Membrey in particular, won their hit outs against the likes of Gawn, English etc

 

[Remboy]

Better off getting Banger and Goddard out of the line coaching roles in the forward and midfield, and getting someone in there who might make a difference

Wed be better off playing Goddard and Harvey in the middle at the moment.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

For further context I doubt either, but Membrey in particular, won their hit outs against the likes of Gawn, English etc

OK you're correct.
But to put Marshall in context.

Hitouts to advantage.:
O'Brian. 11.4 28%
Meek 10.4 30%
Sweet 10.3 36%
Gawn 10.1 28.5%
Soldo 10 34.5%
English 9.3 34.2%
....
....
....
....
Marshall 6.7 24.4%

 

[Saint Watto]

Was the poster Ross Lyon?

Gold there E.

 

[Dr Spaceman]

OK you're correct.
But to put Marshall in context.

Hitouts to advantage.:
O'Brian. 11.4 28%
Meek 10.4 30%
Sweet 10.3 36%
Gawn 10.1 28.5%
Soldo 10 34.5%
English 9.3 34.2%
....
....
....
....
Marshall 6.7 24.4%

I'm not really into these stats.

Presumably if Marshall taps it perfectly and the opposition's Lamborghini mid sharks it from our Haval mid, then the big boy doesn't get a tick in the "Hitout to advantage" column.

If that's so it makes it pretty hard for Ro to improve that percentage with what we currently bring to the centre square.

 

[gringo2011]

Basset could have saved his money by keeping Ratts, if game plans don't make any difference. A bunch of talented players running around with no direction or plan wont go very far. The past is gone, and that's where Lyon's heyday of coaching was.

Lyon has built the football department to a higher standard and bought in better people. A big name coach brings his own orbit and attracts better operators. No offence to Richo but going to work under him wasn't a draw card.

He's also a standard resetter. I'm cool if he isn't the answer to our next flag but sets the organisation up for the next guy now.

 

[gringo2011]

Our midfield is properly s**t but it is interesting to look at the last 2 premiers midfields.

Geelong and Collingwood didn’t have the best midfields by any stretch, probably somewhere between 5 and 10th if you ranked on pure talent. So you don’t need the BEST midfield.

You need to capitalize on your strengths. We’re not doing that at the moment.

I’m all for us bottoming out and getting some genuine A grade midfield talent but even when we do it probably won’t make us the best midfield in the comp, so we still need to use the pieces we’ve got and build a gameplan around that.

I agree on that. We really need to see what we look like with our midfield and small forwards in. It looks like we are trying to mitigate loses rather than chasing wins at the moment. Once we have our insiders back everything should be a lot more stable. Watching Crouch on the weekend reminded me of how much we miss him. He's blue collar but exactly what has been missing. Throw some small forwards that convert and we probably win at least one or two more games so far.

If Lyon has a full compliment and can't play a more attractive brand then I'll be first to lay into him.

 

[Nutsngum]

Lyon has built the football department to a higher standard and bought in better people. A big name coach brings his own orbit and attracts better operators. No offence to Richo but going to work under him wasn't a draw card.

He's also a standard resetter. I'm cool if he isn't the answer to our next flag but sets the organisation up for the next guy now.

In turn, Enright will be more likely to stay on under a coach like Lyon and learn from him rather then finding better opportunity elsewhere.

 

[Ephemeral Hope]

Gold there E.

i try my best

 

[NoisyMinor]

Just wanted to make sure this was here for the true believers amongst us...

 

[SteeleSaints]

I just read that Collard only had 41% game time last week. Whats the point in playing the kid if the coaches are only prepared to give him such little time on the ground. With Phillipou and Sharman having such a poor games the coaches had an absolute shocker at the selection table last week. Previously he didnt have a lot to chose from but last week they did. Injuries have cruelled our year, but gees Lyon has been making some really poor selection decisions right throughout the year.

Its almost like Im playing my favourites regardless of their form all over again.

 

[Saintbloke]

In turn, Enright will be more likely to stay on under a coach like Lyon and learn from him rather then finding better opportunity elsewhere.

Enright doesn't need to learn anything from Lyon- he's a highly regarded premiership player who played under a premiership coaching regime at a highly successful club. My biggest disappointment was that Bassat and his mob didn't seriously put the coaching job to Enright, instead of getting an ex-coach out of retirement. I would say Geelong will come after him sooner than later.

 

[Oh When the Saints]

Enright doesn't need to learn anything from Lyon- he's a highly regarded premiership player who played under a premiership coaching regime at a highly successful club. My biggest disappointment was that Bassat and his mob didn't seriously put the coaching job to Enright, instead of getting an ex-coach out of retirement. I would say Geelong will come after him sooner than later.

Enright is signed for another 2 years. Chris Scott told him that working under Lyon would set him up to be a senior coach. Chris Scott rates Ross Lyon very highly and tried to get him to Cats in various roles since 2019.

 

[Saintbloke]

Enright is signed for another 2 years. Chris Scott told him that working under Lyon would set him up to be a senior coach. Chris Scott rates Ross Lyon very highly and tried to get him to Cats in various roles since 2019.

Enright needs to rip up whatever he signed, and go to Geelong and learn off an actual premiership coach and premiership player in Scott then. Lyon is past it.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Enright doesn't need to learn anything from Lyon- he's a highly regarded premiership player who played under a premiership coaching regime at a highly successful club. My biggest disappointment was that Bassat and his mob didn't seriously put the coaching job to Enright, instead of getting an ex-coach out of retirement. I would say Geelong will come after him sooner than later.

Plenty of premiership players are /would be poor coaches.
Plenty that a young coach can learn ( ask Voss ).
Your whole good player/nothing to learn is just wrong.

 

[Nutsngum]

Enright needs to rip up whatever he signed, and go to Geelong and learn off an actual premiership coach and premiership player in Scott then. Lyon is past it.

You mean the club/coach he was under previously to us? Do you even research an ounce of the drivel you go on about?

 

[pebblesofsand]

I just read that Collard only had 41% game time last week. Whats the point in playing the kid if the coaches are only prepared to give him such little time on the ground. With Phillipou and Sharman having such a poor games the coaches had an absolute shocker at the selection table last week. Previously he didnt have a lot to chose from but last week they did. Injuries have cruelled our year, but gees Lyon has been making some really poor selection decisions right throughout the year.

Its almost like Im playing my favourites regardless of their form all over again.

No - it's defintely "playing my favourites regardless of their form"