Review Round 12, 2019 - Carlton vs. Brisbane Lions

[Nunez]

Yeah I do; but it was pointless attending something when I was livid at what had occurred earlier in the day on the back of the players disgracing the jumper. It wouldn’t have been fair on those around me to pretend or feign happiness. I can appreciate our history for what it is over feigning happinesses and pretending that what I witnessed earlier in the day was acceptable particularly in that jumper.

I appreciate your passion for the club mate, but if footy is effecting you to that extent have you ever seriously considered taking a break? Being genuine Here, but putting myself in your shoes I think I'd want a break if I felt so bad I couldn't go to the HOF celebrating absolute legends of our clubs combined history.

 

[Dylan12]

You guys are gonna SMOKE the saints at Marvel. The scary thing atm (for other supporters) is watching you guys when you play at home. It’s got shades of 2000 onwards about it. You guys are bloody close.

Appreciate the vote of confidence.

Get your second win of the season and now you’re the ones with a voice of reason trying to pump us up. Give it a rest and stop trying to make yourself feel better.

 

[Dylan12]

Incredible that you can make this judgement after 11 NEAFL games.

Is it really unreasonable to say based on seeing every minute of the NEAfL that Berry, Joyce, McFadyen and Answerth have shown significantly more?

I’d argue that each has shown considerably more than Smith and look more of a chance than making it than Smith.

I’ll be happy to be proven wrong but nothing Smith has shown says to me that he’ll be an elite midfielder which is what the comment was that I responded to.

 

[Nunez]

Is it really unreasonable to say based on seeing every minute of the NEAfL that Berry, Joyce, McFadyen and Answerth have shown significantly more?

I’d argue that each has shown considerably more than Smith and look more of a chance than making it than Smith.

I’ll be happy to be proven wrong but nothing Smith has shown says to me that he’ll be an elite midfielder which is what the comment was that I responded to.

I think he's shown more than Joyce and McFadyen but is behind Berry and Answorth. He hadn't quite hit four quarters of consistent footy but was very close to doing so before he got injured. One thing in particular that stands out about Ely is his ability as a forward. His conversion hasn't been great, but he reads the play very well and reckon he'll have every chance to become best 22 in a few years. Imo he'll be a better version than Matho. Wouldn't expect him to be an A grader, but best 22. Although, my opinion like yours is based off 11 weeks of NEAFL and draft year viewing (assuming you watched him play last year?) And the reality is it is way too early to say how any of the above will go next year let alone a few years time when they have had the chance to develop across a few preseasons.

 

[BRAB]

I appreciate your passion for the club mate, but if footy is effecting you to that extent have you ever seriously considered taking a break? Being genuine Here, but putting myself in your shoes I think I'd want a break if I felt so bad I couldn't go to the HOF celebrating absolute legends of our clubs combined history.

I can see Dylan's side of not wanting to attend a club event just after the team put forward their worst performance in three years though.

It's actually pretty healthy to recognise that you shouldn't expose yourself to more of a bad thing and choose a healthier outlet.

 

[BRAB]

I think smith has shown some pretty good glimpses in the NEAFL and expect him to be a good player for us. Still has some really good tools to be a good player.

A huge shame he's been injured.

 

[Dylan12]

I think he's shown more than Joyce and McFadyen but is behind Berry and Answorth. He hadn't quite hit four quarters of consistent footy but was very close to doing so before he got injured. One thing in particular that stands out about Ely is his ability as a forward. His conversion hasn't been great, but he reads the play very well and reckon he'll have every chance to become best 22 in a few years. Imo he'll be a better version than Matho. Wouldn't expect him to be an A grader, but best 22. Although, my opinion like yours is based off 11 weeks of NEAFL and draft year viewing (assuming you watched him play last year?) And the reality is it is way too early to say how any of the above will go next year let alone a few years time when they have had the chance to develop across a few preseasons.

Fair enough, my response was in regards to him becoming an elite midfielder and I then backed it up that I thought the other four draftees had shown more, which I believe they have. All subjective though.

 

[Dylan12]

I can see Dylan's side of not wanting to attend a club event just after the team put forward their worst performance in three years though.

It's actually pretty healthy to recognise that you shouldn't expose yourself to more of a bad thing and choose a healthier outlet.

Correct and the best thing for me was coming down to Portsea for the remainder of the weekend and not enduring something that I wouldn’t have enjoyed. I’m more than happy to admit that and not pretend otherwise.

 

[BRAB]

Correct and the best thing for me was coming down to Portsea for the remainder of the weekend and not enduring something that I wouldn’t have enjoyed. I’m more than happy to admit that and not pretend otherwise.

I just went to Coles and splurged on some comfort food so I think your outlet to deal with it was much healthier.

 

[luthor]

Correct and the best thing for me was coming down to Portsea for the remainder of the weekend and not enduring something that I wouldn’t have enjoyed. I’m more than happy to admit that and not pretend otherwise.

Respect your passion Dyl but if I'd had the chance to go to that HOF event, I would have done it come hell or high water.

I felt pain at travelling 2000 km to a game I expected us to win comfortably but I reckon special events transcend short term personal grief.

Hope you don't regret that decision in the coming years

 

[Elixuh]

It's actually pretty healthy to recognise that you shouldn't expose yourself to more of a bad thing and choose a healthier outlet.

But I've been reading match day threads for years. What does that make me??

 

[BRAB]

But I've been reading match day threads for years. What does that make me??

A lions fan. So a bit damaged

 

[Dylan12]

Respect your passion Dyl but if I'd had the chance to go to that HOF event, I would have done it come hell or high water.

I felt pain at travelling 2000 km to a game I expected us to win comfortably but I reckon special events transcend short term personal grief.

Hope you don't resent that decision in the coming years

I should’ve given you my ticket as a gift given you obviously would’ve really enjoyed and savoured the night. I’ll be honest, I threw the toys out of the cot and retreated not appreciating at the time that I could and should have paid it forward to someone else. A lesson hopefully learned for me.

 

[Clarkythelion]

I think smith has shown some pretty good glimpses in the NEAFL and expect him to be a good player for us. Still has some really good tools to be a good player.

A huge shame he's been injured.

Your right, it's just too early to tell. An inside mid like him takes some time and then he has been injured as well. Training and learning from Neale and Lyons will bring him on nicely. He just needs to be playing to learn. Payne sat a whole year out and he is looking a great prospect so if Smith spend his time with his foot up and pumping iron in the gym no reason to be positive he won't come back better.

 

[Hollow Knight]

What is with people being utterly rude to the Carlton posters posting magnanimously here?

Embarrassing.

 

[trikster]

Incredible that you can make this judgement after 11 NEAFL games.

He has only played 6 actually due to injury.

 

[M Malice]

What is with people being utterly rude to the Carlton posters posting magnanimously here?

Embarrassing.

It doesn't worry me, I usually give the opposition supporters a like although I can see how some of our more sensitive/blunt posters would have a problem with it. Very difficult to ascertain online if posts come from a sanctimonious and/or spurious position, some I'm sure would come to our board fishing for a bite, not all would be altruistic in nature as I'm also sure some are... IMO.

Best to just ignore and skim over the post if you have a dislike of opposition posters on the board particularly after a hard to take loss.

 

[jumpstart]

I have a feeling by the end of August this game will be very telling. It certainly was not a loss that you can justify without saying extremely disappointing. You should never lose in a position like that at quarter time against the bottom team. That one stings. And the bite will be possibly out of the eight by the end of the season.

 

[Lions Flag 2020]

I think he's shown more than Joyce and McFadyen but is behind Berry and Answorth. He hadn't quite hit four quarters of consistent footy but was very close to doing so before he got injured. One thing in particular that stands out about Ely is his ability as a forward. His conversion hasn't been great, but he reads the play very well and reckon he'll have every chance to become best 22 in a few years. Imo he'll be a better version than Matho. Wouldn't expect him to be an A grader, but best 22. Although, my opinion like yours is based off 11 weeks of NEAFL and draft year viewing (assuming you watched him play last year?) And the reality is it is way too early to say how any of the above will go next year let alone a few years time when they have had the chance to develop across a few preseasons.

I think Joyce is going to be a gun. A year out of footy takes a bit of catching up. Two more full preseasons and he will be entrenched in our midfield. I also really like Connor M. Over the years I have found elite cricket players seem to have more time than other players when playing other sports such as rugby, afl, ....

 

[lioninthesand]

I can see Dylan's side of not wanting to attend a club event just after the team put forward their worst performance in three years though.

It's actually pretty healthy to recognise that you shouldn't expose yourself to more of a bad thing and choose a healthier outlet.

It waa incredibly therapeutic actually. We were saluting several Fitzroy greats, the room was full of history.. Kevin Murray and Browny did great speeches. Each to their own but seems a tad extreme if you ask me.

 

[rusty08]

I can see Dylan's side of not wanting to attend a club event just after the team put forward their worst performance in three years though.

It's actually pretty healthy to recognise that you shouldn't expose yourself to more of a bad thing and choose a healthier outlet.

I went along, but happy to admit I was a tad reluctant after the game.
Made a weekend of it, staying in city etc, so made it difficult to pull the pin considering I had dragged the wife and 2 boys in with me.
Glad I went in the end though, came away with the memorial guernsey, which I'm pretty chuffed with.

 

[Strato]

The angst & disagreement on this board all stems from people's varying expectations, both of individuals and the team as a whole.
Before the season started, most would would have agreed that climbing from the bottom of the ladder to somewhere in the middle would be a great result.
We started the year well and suddenly a whole bunch of folk expect us to feature in September. The possibility is still there, that we might finish in the top 8, but what are people's realistic expectation if we do. If we get to September, we were only ever going to be making up the numbers.

Forget about results and ladder position for a minute. If anyone thinks we're playing great footy most weeks, you need to take your rose coloured glasses off. The footy media has made a lot of comment this year about how even or close the competition is, particularly across the teams between 2 and 13th on the ladder. From a pure footballing perspective, there are a lot more teams playing very ordinary footy this year. That's the difference so far. More teams are playing worse and the overall standard is poor. Only Geelong stands out as a consistently good side.

By round 22, I would expect the whole ladder to have settled right down with a clearer pecking order. Teams will be winning and losing the games they should. So, on form so far exposed this year, I wouldn't expect to see the Lions playing football. If we do, then it's an indictment on the game and the standard in September is going to be horribly ordinary. Teams in the 8 shouldn't be missing kicks, tackles, targets and making errors the way we do. And that goes for a great number of teams around us on the ladder. As I said, the standard across the board is terrible, but by September, 8 teams should have that sorted out.

So where do we fit in? We beat a heap of teams early and people's expectations are through the roof. What were your expectations before round 1?
For me, this was always to be another year of development. We got some great talent coming in, but the likes of Neale, Cameron, McCarthy, Lyons hadn't played footy together, and hadn't played with the Lions (Charlie the exception, but with just a handful of games). At the same time we have new young players, in the same boat. It takes time for a team to come together, and learn to function as a well oiled machine. That to me was what this year would be about. Forget finals. We were never supposed to be good enough, and that is still on track to be the case.

The possibility is there, and for other reasons it would be great to make the 8. It's good for the players to taste that level of success. It's good for membership and media exposure, resulting in revenue. It's good for the soul, both for fans and the club. From a purely footballing perspective though, finals are neither here nor there if there is no realistic chance of going all the way. If you think there is that chance, the way we've played so far this year, then no wonder you're angry, and good luck with that.

Comments like "We should be 9-3" are so far off reality. We are lucky to be 7-5. Watch how the game is played, not the results. Coaches have always said, just play the game as it needs to be played, and results will take care of themselves. Right now, we don't play well enough to be 9-3. We are in the top 8 because a heap of other teams have been terrible as well, not because we've been awesome. We're working on it, and some weeks we've been good to very good, but winning games doesn't always mean you've played good footy, just less **** than the other team.

We're developing still.
Yesterday was very disappointing and we should have won, but it was another of those games where the team didn't function as it should. It wasn't lost at the selection table or through poor coaching. A lot of individuals let themselves and their mates down. Even Harris Andrews was ordinary in my opinion. Not terrible, just not his usual greatness. Daniel Rich let through a few players through half arsed efforts or lack of second efforts. These guys polled well on your bests, yet both were down on form. I assumed Oscar was left out to further rest his shoulder. He could have played in an emergency, but was probably considered not worth the risk against Carlton. Good decision in the end, because he wouldn't have been the difference we needed. Should we play the best 22 every week? Do we have a best 22? I don't think so, and it's still important for us to be trying and developing different players in different rolls. Our team isn't settled and we're not playing to win a premiership this year. The time will come to go into a season with that mindset, but this year isn't that time.

You are absolutely correct. Well done "Skoob" and this is by far the best posting since I have been on this site. I don't take notice of stats, I look at the player and how he reads and plays the game. What he does on the field and how he handles pressure, etc. I am not interested in finals because we are not playing the football that can win finals and to be really honest I have not been really confident of winning any game this season so far. I admit in the 2nd quarter Saturday when 37 points up I said to my son this is going to be % for us. Five minutes later I said we are going to lose this. Disappointing but we will have a few of these games before we are good enough to perform in finals. When we do make finals we want everything going right for us so we make a big impression. This season - definitely not. We need improvement in all aspects of our game and that entails full confidence in all our senior players. Go back to our premiership teams in 2001,2002,2003 and include 2004(even though we had a lot of players that were sore), we had full confidence that we had a good chance of winning and that's where we need to get to.

 

[spotthedog1]

I think the ire for guys like Nick Robbo comes from the same place as the praise for Josh Walker - it's far easier to notice what players do offensively than defensively. Unless the player has a standout intercepting game like Harris does every other week, it can be tough to notice, and I often go to the stats to see how the defenders looked.

My notes from the game:

Ruck combo is a big problem. Archie's still new at the level, but we can not play Martin and Smith in the same team. Both are first ruckman or bust. OMac is necessary because he can play ruck/fwd, or fwd/ruck. As for their performance, both Martin and Smith got embarrassed. I would drop one of them for Omac next week. I'm not set on it being Smith though. Happy to give Smith/Omac a couple of weeks to see an actual 1st ruck, ruck/fwd combo.

Cripps is a beast, and the umpires really helped him in the first quarter. 3 frees to him for people breathing in his vicinity. This made our stoppers cautious, and they didn't put the bodywork into him. He gets a whiff of freedom, and he tore us a new one.

Umpiring in general was very patchy. Not necessarily favouring either team, but they were really quite poor. Really hurt our momentum a few times. Eleni's free to Fisher is absolutely bamboozling. I still can't figure out what she even called. Nevertheless, they gifted us a couple of cheap ones as well, and we can't exactly blame the umpires for the loss - that was all on us.

Neale huge. Answerth really coming along. McStay really had a few nice takes. Couldn't find anyone else for votes.

I think from here though, Fages really has to show that he means business, and I recommend dropping about 15 players for next week (symbolically). Highlight the players who played their role, and have a whiteboard up there, and move most of them off the field. Tell the rest of them that that performance isn't tolerable. Obviously most of them will retain their spot for the St Kilda match after the bye, but put some pressure down that this isn't the week to slacken off at training.

 

[LongLion]

Tinker?
We've been embarrassed now at least twice too often. A Coach with an admitted philosophy of allowing out of form players to somehow find form in the Seniors. WTF? It's a ridiculous philosophy & has failed miserably. Teams can't afford passengers. The competition is too close. IMO its time to change the Coach. I still live in hope for finals this year, yet have now lost all confidence in the Coaching Dept. Lets get real, we're lucky we're not 4/8 and around 13th on the ladder. The Eagles had us on toast, Port looked to have us beaten deep in the last & we got out of jail against North. Love to be wrong but for mine the Coach needs a kick up the backside & a radical change of this insipid philosophy of not dropping certain players no matter how poor their form is. If he doesn't improve sack him in September & bring Scott or Voss in. Couldn't see either of them molly coddling out of form players & allowing them in the Seniors as passengers.

I think you have just had what is commonly called a MELT. I'ts a good one so well done but back to sanity tomorrow for you hopefully.

 

[DERRINALPHIL]

I was so flat after yesterday’s game. Maybe I take footy too seriously, but usually something like this would ruin my weekend. Was feeling bitter, angry and disappointed. Walked into the Hall of Fame with shoulders slumped and couldn’t even force myself to crack half a smile. That is, until I ran into Kevin Murray.

As soon as I saw the great mans smile, the loss was put to the back of my mind and I couldn’t wipe the smile off my face. We chatted for a good 5 mins about the game and he believes that this is a loss we will look back on in 2 years time and say “We needed to lose that to become the team we are today.” As many people did on the night, he reminded me about where we were sitting last year and how far we have really come this year. He said that the reality is that we are not a superstar team YET and made a great analogy...

Our current team is half way through Year 9 at High School. The Pies, Cats, Eagles, Tigers and the Giants are in Year 12 completing their VCE. We wouldn’t have the knowledge or experience to sit those final VCE exams, so it’s hard to expect a really good end of year result. We have some smart kids in Year 9 and they could do well in the VCE exam as individuals. But as a cohort, we wouldn’t do that great.

In Year 9, we are learning, studying and growing in maturity to get ready for when our VCE exams come. In Kevin’s words, we have a number of A+ students in our cohort at the moment. With great teachers like Fages, hopefully some of our B and C grade players can also push to become A graders.

We both talked about how off the rails we both were in Year 9 and that many mistakes were made. The key is to learn from them and try not to make the same mistakes again. Yes, a terrible loss on the day, but the future is bright.

We finished off with Kevin signing my commemorative jumper and a warm handshake and hug. An absolute gentleman and the word legend doesn’t even do him justice. He is more than a legend.


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I met him in the loos where he had just spilt water on his shoes and was worried that people would get the wrong idea.