Autopsy Round 12, 2022: Hawks pipped by Magpies

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Roger Rogerson said:
To me it looked like they players had been given the instruction to give an extra handball. It was happening all over the ground and it was excruciating to watch. A number of them motioned to kick then would seem to remember and then give the handball to what was a wrong option.
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Mitchell addressed this post match. He said the coaches themselves were wondering why we were handballing so much it. He put it down to the pressure the pies brought to the game early. It wasn't a coaching tactic at all.

Not you Roger, but just in general I'm not sure why so many posters have thrown the toys out of the cot with yesterday? Opposition don't make it easy to play your one-wood, and the Pies' pressure early was off the charts. They're a team right in the finals hunt with some talent in that 25-28 year old bracket. We are a bottom six team showing plenty of promise, but lacking in that prime age bracket.

Yet again, far more positives than negatives yesterday. To think otherwise probably just misreads were we are at as a list.
 
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Mississippi said:
This all a bit hard to take.

We were crucified by the umpires yesterday, especially in the first half.
That deliberate out of bounds not paid to us near our goals in the 2nd quarter was just laughable. The Collingwood player when tackled ran straight for the boundary (holding the ball) and when he realized he couldn't reach the boundary, just threw the ball over the line from about 2 metres away. If an umpire can't fairly call a free as obvious as that, then he should simply not be umpiring AFL. And if that umpire ignores such an obvious free, there's a second umpire nearby who can step in and make the correct decision.

And the ridiculous in the back charity given to Ginnivan in the first quarter when he dove forward when tackled. A goal to Coll'wood.

Picking up on Clarkson's line a few years ago, yesterday we had close to 70 tackles (way more than Coll'wood) and yet hardly any holding the ball or illegal disposal. Just ridiculous.

And yet in the wash up today, the story is not the clear advantage Coll'wood got from the umpires yesterday, it's how badly the umpires treated the blond stager Ginnivan. This is the same Ginnivan who's kicked approx 50% of his goals this year from frees!!

Umpiring is becoming a real turn-off in watching AFL. Admittedly part of the problem is that we have rules which are so fine line - and open to a whole range of interpretation. Such as the prior opportunity / holding the ball rule. And the definition of "handball". In pack situations, I reckon 50 plus % of disposals are technically illegal. And then there's the fine distinction between a fair tackle from behind and in the back.

There's no doubt that our complexity of rules (including the new rules the AFL chooses to introduce every year, to complicate the rule book even further) is far more difficult to interpret, compared to any other world sport. I don't envy the job that umpires have to do, particularly when the AFL introduces (via the all time great umpire whinger Scott) 50 metre penalties for raising an eye brow at an umpire's decision or a 50 metre penalty for lifting your heel when standing on the mark or when the man on the mark takes a half step to the left when the player with the ball fakes a hand ball. But it's the complete inconsistently in rule interpretations that's really doing my head in.

For me it's getting to the stage where it's best to watch from home, because at least then you can walk out of the room or change channels.
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I am in my 50's and have never seen the umpiring this bad and inconsistent, the Mihocek V Bruest in the last few seconds is a classic example of the inconsistency us fans have to put up with week after week.

The game is getting closer to rugby in-regard to what is regarded as a disposal, players are tackled and either throw, shuffle or simple drop the ball out and it's called play on. There used to be nothing better than the crowd calling BALL and winning the free kick and the crowd would erupt with a YES, if there are 4 of these played a game its now called over umpiring. If the AFL was fair dinkum there should at least 20 of these paid per game, this would result in less ball up's and a quicker game and to be honest a better product to watch.

I used to watch 5 to 6 games a weekend, down to 3 at the moment and thinking about just limiting myself to the Hawks games.
 
Jazzfan said:
Mitchell addressed this post match. He said the coaches themselves were wondering why we were handballing so much it. He put it down to the pressure the pies brought to the game early. It wasn't a coaching tactic at all.

Not you Roger, but just in general I'm not sure why so many posters have thrown the toys out of the cot with yesterday? Opposition don't make it easy to play your one-wood, and the Pies' pressure early was off the charts. They're a team right in the finals hunt with some talent in that 25-28 year old bracket. We are a bottom six team showing plenty of promise, but lacking in that prime age bracket.

Yet again, far more positives than negatives yesterday. To think otherwise probably just misreads were we are at as a list.
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Well said. The Pies are a good team who came out with immense pressure early forcing us into some pretty awful passages of play.

I'm not sure if some supporters are expecting us to be competing for the 8, but we're still early days of a rebuild, and the fact we fought back to a winning position is way more impressive than what most rebuilding clubs put up every week.
 

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cryptor said:
Happy for the young guys to make these costly mistakes now in a season like this. As long as they learn from them.
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Good example of this is Scrim - maybe last season or the one before, we went down to Sydney in a close one and he had a couple of errors (from memory fumbles/bad decisions) late in the game


Then this season against the Cats he won a few huge contests in the middle of the ground and on our forward 50 which helped us get over the line

Close games either win or a loss are gonna be invaluable to our young side
 
TassieGrown said:
I am in my 50's and have never seen the umpiring this bad and inconsistent, the Mihocek V Bruest in the last few seconds is a classic example of the inconsistency us fans have to put up with week after week.

The game is getting closer to rugby in-regard to what is regarded as a disposal, players are tackled and either throw, shuffle or simple drop the ball out and it's called play on. There used to be nothing better than the crowd calling BALL and winning the free kick and the crowd would erupt with a YES, if there are 4 of these played a game its now called over umpiring. If the AFL was fair dinkum there should at least 20 of these paid per game, this would result in less ball up's and a quicker game and to be honest a better product to watch.

I used to watch 5 to 6 games a weekend, down to 3 at the moment and thinking about just limiting myself to the Hawks games.
Click to expand...
I can't understand why people wouldn't understand where our list is at and see that a game like yesterday is actually a real step forward on many levels. We are seeing guys taking the next step to being genuine stars of the comp on a nearly weekly basis. That's huge for this club who was stagnant at this time last year. Guys like Lewis, Jiath, Newcomb, McDonald, Reeves have been influential well beyond my expectations. If we can get Ward, DGB & say a Brockman to follow suit next year, we're building something. We're a bottom rung team that is playing with passion and it's good footy to watch which I love. It was the exact opposite towards the end of Clarkos time at the club so to see us do what we're doing with just one year under Mitch is beyond heartening. If we can grab a A grade prospective mid (Tsatas or Shezel) at the draft and inject some more class into the midfield, we're going to be a treat to watch in 2-3 years time.
 
danielG said:
I can't understand why people wouldn't understand where our list is at and see that a game like yesterday is actually a real step forward on many levels. We are seeing guys taking the next step to being genuine stars of the comp on a nearly weekly basis. That's huge for this club who was stagnant at this time last year. Guys like Lewis, Jiath, Newcomb, McDonald, Reeves have been influential well beyond my expectations. If we can get Ward, DGB & say a Brockman to follow suit next year, we're building something. We're a bottom rung team that is playing with passion and it's good footy to watch which I love. It was the exact opposite towards the end of Clarkos time at the club so to see us do what we're doing with just one year under Mitch is beyond heartening. If we can grab a A grade prospective mid (Tsatas or Shezel) at the draft and inject some more class into the midfield, we're going to be a treat to watch in 2-3 years time.
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Not sure what this has to do with my post :think:

I think we all know where the list is at we are missing the class you need to be a genuine finals contender
 
Roger Rogerson said:
To me it looked like they players had been given the instruction to give an extra handball. It was happening all over the ground and it was excruciating to watch. A number of them motioned to kick then would seem to remember and then give the handball to what was a wrong option.

What frustrated me the most was our dump kicks out of D50 but then also that we never adjusted our setup outside the D50 to account for them happening repeatedly. Mitchell would no doubt be filthy with our dump kicks, but at the same time he didn't make any adjustments to this pattern of play and even more disappointing is that none of the players on the ground took it upon themselves to address it with their teammates either. We did lack on field leadership in the backline in the last quarter in the mad scramble.
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I dont think the handballing was to instruction it was more out of panic because of the pressure. I suppose u could say the same about the kicks out of defence. We lacked composure in parts of the game but the conditions were horrible so if you could kick you would just to gain yardage our players didnt come further up the ground to compensate however if they did that would have really compressed the ground and we were also trying to score
 
TheFourPillars said:
I dont think the handballing was to instruction it was more out of panic because of the pressure. I suppose u could say the same about the kicks out of defence. We lacked composure in parts of the game but the conditions were horrible so if you could kick you would just to gain yardage our players didnt come further up the ground to compensate however if they that would have really compressed the ground and we were also trying to score
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May have been due to their team defence structures too.
Either way, we corrected it when the rain came.
 
Thought it showed a great sign that this group is evolving, learning and improving.

First time i've seen the group correct something in game that has really worked.
 
Think there is a lot to take from that game but also plenty to be annoyed about.

The first half was horrible. I think you could mostly put that down to pies pressure that made our game tough to execute. But it was also down to our perennial problem - winning the ball in clearances and in the contest. For the first part of the game we had very little of the ball - we couldn't win it at the source, couldn't force turn over and couldn't hang on to it when we had it. Post half time we squared the ledger a bit through the middle but we still struggled to force turnovers through the middle of the ground and in our forward half.

The inside 50s each week are telling. We don't win the ball back unless its from within our D50. Then we need to take it end to end to score. Its tough to do that enough over 4 quarters particularly against teams with a strong defensive system.

Still the turnaround was great. I don't reckon the pies dropped off much, we just got our act together and lifted in the middle. Lots to like but can't give up a start like that. Should have won in the end.

Also - I'm pretty philosophical about umps. We got some soft ones, they got some. They probably got more. What annoys me is the focus in the media on the ones we got or they didn't get. Its as if we got hte rub of the green which just isn't the case.
 
kirbatron said:
Best 4-8 season since ever.

Am relishing the journey even though I'd love a few more wins.
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I agree. I see people getting so frustrated over the losses and blow outs.
I've been loving every bit of this season.
Youngsters playing.
Mitch and implementing his new far more attacking game plan has been such a breath of fresh air for me.
Sure we have had some terrible patches.. But we are playing some kids and implementing a new game style, plus, Mitch would be learning so much every game he coaches.

I cant wait to see what the finished product looks like.
 
A couple of blowouts against, a couple of last quarter fades.
Two strong wins v bottom 4 teams at the time

The other six games close finishes 2 wins 4 losses

Not really bad, going slightly better than last time we switched coaches

Hoping for a good omen as 2 of the 3 wins in 2005 were brisbane and freo, as rank underdogs
 

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Coaches Votes
9 Darcy Cameron (COLL)
8 Nick Daicos (COLL)
6 Mitch Lewis (HAW)
5 Jai Newcombe (HAW)
2 Patrick Lipinski (COLL)


I think this is the only combination that works...

Coach A
5 Darcy Cameron
4 Mitch Lewis
3 Nick Daicos
2 Jai Newcombe
1 Patrick Lipinski

Coach B
5 Nick Daicos
4 Darcy Cameron
3 Jai Newcombe
2 Mitch Lewis
1 Patrick Lipinski
 
cryptor said:
Coaches Votes
9 Darcy Cameron (COLL) 5 4
8 Nick Daicos (COLL) 3 5
6 Mitch Lewis (HAW) 4 2
5 Jai Newcombe (HAW) 2 3
2 Patrick Lipinski (COLL) 1 1
Click to expand...

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Strapping Young Lad said:
Show me where it say anything about 'second to the ball' in the rules? It's not where the line is drawn at all.
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It doesn’t.

But the rule is for making forceful contact below the knees so given:

A. Butler ran into Moore (thus Butler made the contact not the other way round) and

B. Butler had already gone to ground (making it hard for Moore to make contact below the knees as Butler’s lower legs are basically already on the ground)

It is not a free kick. You are wrong and it is ok to admit as much.

Lewis should have been paid a free seconds earlier for the hold but this was blatantly incorrect.
 
Interesting to see the recent ladders showing how games v top 8 opponents each of the contenders have played.
Hawks 7 with a 2-5 record. Premiers, 3, with a 1-2 record!!
We round out the whole set with Freo this week…away of course.
Toughest draw by a mile.
It’s certainly a year of development with ladder position irrelevant.
 
cryptor said:
Coaches Votes
9 Darcy Cameron (COLL)
8 Nick Daicos (COLL)
6 Mitch Lewis (HAW)
5 Jai Newcombe (HAW)
2 Patrick Lipinski (COLL)


I think this is the only combination that works...

Coach A
5 Darcy Cameron
4 Mitch Lewis
3 Nick Daicos
2 Jai Newcombe
1 Patrick Lipinski

Coach B
5 Nick Daicos
4 Darcy Cameron
3 Jai Newcombe
2 Mitch Lewis
1 Patrick Lipinski
Click to expand...
Cameron deserved 10, but cant disagree to much with the voting

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk
 
Strapping Young Lad said:
Not good early, worked our way into it.

Newk, Sic and Lewis take a bow for your efforts.


Umpiring diabolical.


Go at it.
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Good game Hawks.
Diabolical conditions and umpiring, so a raffle really.
Looks like you have a beauty in Newcombe.
 

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Autopsy Round 12, 2022: Hawks pipped by Magpies

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