Review Round 12 = Collingwood 82-100 Western Bulldogs

[Dead Eye Didak]

Feels a bit like shuffling deck chairs on the titanic atm until we get at least a handful of players back. Our depth players are depth players they are not all suppose to be in the team together, there is a breaking point and we probably hit it this week

Leppa said we get 3 back next week, 3 the following week and the rest after the bye

 

[loki04]

Let’s face it, Pendles is the only player we’ve got who can reliably do the job you’re suggesting others should have been assigned. Not one of the players you’ve suggested do it has shown it is a strong suit in their repertoire. Crisp is the closest that we had out there but it comes at a too big a cost to his overall midfield contribution. The issue wasn’t that Bont was working over Nick, it’s that nobody else stepped up to fill the void. Missing Pendles, DeGoey and Mitchell doesn’t help that.

Yes no one was filling the void so what do you do? stop the person stopping our 1 gun in there.
There is a reason Bontempelli said they had to physically focus on ND and freeze him out.

We did it in the first quarter before dogs conned on and flipped the script on our mids.
We held thier mids out and allowed Nick 1v1s.
Bont was also held out in Q1 by crisp, issue is when he went to ND he was too big, strong and clever for Nick to get free or he'll even compete. Umps let Nick down a bit too.

Anyone of those 3 I mentioned in previous posts physically could impede him, Nick doesn't need a whole lot of space to get off the leash. You wouldn't know with Beau as he's never been given that role, physically he would match up to Bont in strength.

I think doing nothing because you just think he's that good is an absurd way to go about things. Certainly turned out poorly didn't it.
Yes he's a big frame but he's not Alistair Lynch in muscle density and an immovable object.

 

[JLC]

Positives: Howe was good I thought
Quaynor played his best game of the season, still not the level I'd hope he could be at.
Nick Daicos was freakishly good
Cameron was very good early. I worry about how often he is getting kneed in the back of the head.
Schultz played his best game in the BnW
Josh Daicos was good but had a few shocking moments
Crisp was good all night, tried hard.

Bad:
Ash Johnson. You simply delist him at the end of the year and pay out his 2025 contract, better for both parties.
Bytel is not an AFL player.
Mcreery needs to offer a lot more to the team. Never offers leads or anything when we have the ball at half back.
Harrison had a shocker. Invisible all night and very fumbly.
Fin Macrae is not an AFL player
Charlie Dean leaks goals every game he plays. Not strong defensively and teams are starting to work that out.
Markov/Frampton the experiment didn't work, but I wont criticize them as they're played terribly out of position.

Agree with most of that - Crisp and Schultz with better goal kicking could and should have killed the game. We should have been 7 goals up at quarter time.

The Dogs nailed harder shots early along with the charity goal and the game is still a contest.

And it's gut wrenching to see their Macrae who this season has been out of favour kick 2 goals and our Macrae do nothing. Add to that Rory Lobb another player they don't give a **** about kick goals.

When Kreuger is fit, you just had to play him. He is so much better suited up forward than Frampton or Johnson. And our backline is better with Framps in it.

I reckon even if we just had WHE playing up forward we win that game. So frustrating.

And one last thing when Nick Daicos is frustrated with the umpires then you know they were absolute shyte.

 

[BEEG]

Once this team is close to full fitness I would be shocked if Sidebottom plays again.

He is so slow and an awful kick now, I can't believe we have him behind the ball and taking kick ins.

 

[loki04]

None of the he should have played forward and he should have played back mattered. We got carved up in the midfield after quarter time. Backs were excellent to keep our nose in front for so long.

Of course it matters as we had plenty of opportunity from defensive transition but often couldn't get it past the halfway point on the ground.

We had no targets forward of the footy.

Dogs locked us in thier front half.

You are looking at one aspect ie center stoppages and saying we could only win or lose it there.

What about all the times we defended (which you acknowledge they did manfully) and then transitioned only to fail at wing, HF or bombed long to Jones?

They are also opportunities to score.

No structure forward makes that transition fruitless as it was.

 

[Dead Eye Didak]

Positives: Howe was good I thought
Quaynor played his best game of the season, still not the level I'd hope he could be at.
Nick Daicos was freakishly good
Cameron was very good early. I worry about how often he is getting kneed in the back of the head.
Schultz played his best game in the BnW
Josh Daicos was good but had a few shocking moments
Crisp was good all night, tried hard.

Bad:
Ash Johnson. You simply delist him at the end of the year and pay out his 2025 contract, better for both parties.
Bytel is not an AFL player.
Mcreery needs to offer a lot more to the team. Never offers leads or anything when we have the ball at half back.
Harrison had a shocker. Invisible all night and very fumbly.
Fin Macrae is not an AFL player
Charlie Dean leaks goals every game he plays. Not strong defensively and teams are starting to work that out.
Markov/Frampton the experiment didn't work, but I wont criticize them as they're played terribly out of position.

Add Noble to the bad. Everything he touched turned to shite, lol. Even running into an open goal, and he got smothered. Couldn't get anything to come off.

 

[loki04]

They would have like Liberatore, Naughton, Richards, Weightman, Bailey Smith and not the 2 ingame injuries.

Agree that the coaching was underwhelming tonight.

Surely thier cap needs investigating with all those big dollar fwds they have. Most signed big contracts too.

 

[LuckyLee]

Howe can’t ruck.

If Frampton was playing back, where would Cameron rest when Frampton was rucking? Back?

Rotating a ruck through the D50 creates too much instability in D50. You want chaos in the forward line, not in the backline.



AJ was poor, no doubt. But how do we know Krueger would have been any better?

Krueger has played 9 games of senior footy in his career. He hasn’t played senior footy in over a year. He’s only played two games of VFL footy in 2024 - and in those two VFL games Krueger played, AJ played better.

And for all we know he may be way behind AJ fitness wise?



We don’t have a lot of choice at the moment?

Clearly we have players who wouldn’t be playing in the position (or at all) if our first, our second, or even our third choice players were available.

Kreuger should have been picked instead of Dean. Frampton to defence and Kreuger/AJ both forward and relief ruck. That’s not hindsight - several of us have been suggesting it all week. Dean was close to worst-on and Frampton’s game was no better than AJ’s.

When we’ve got this many players unavailable, we’ve got to maximise the impact of those that are available if we are to have a chance of winning. And that starts with playing as many as possible in their best positions.

Frampton is an excellent key defender, a serviceable relief ruck and an appallingly-bad forward. So where did we play him? Forward! Sam Darcy would not have dominated Frampton in the way he dominated Dean. That mismatch really cost us.

We’ll lose badly next week too but at least this block of games will reveal who has got genuine promise at AFL level (Harrison, Sullivan, Richards) and who’s really not up to it (Dean, Bytel, Macrae), which will help accelerate list management decisions in the off-season.


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[Drought Break]

Don’t have an opinion everyone because jmac might get his knickers in a knot.

Just reading these pages now after missing game Every second post is him potting others. Typical

 

[Drought Break]

Treloar is the one who dragged them back into it with his 2nd and 3rd quarters.

Is he still on our payroll?

 

[Dead Eye Didak]

Once this team is close to full fitness I would be shocked if Sidebottom plays again.

He is so slow and an awful kick now, I can't believe we have him behind the ball and taking kick ins.

I feel Sidey is playing HB like he did the wing position. His tendency to get the ball to boot quickly just to move the ball forward, practically a dump, choas kick forward is fine on the wing, as it will probably enter our F50 or HF territory, but to kick those from the back pocket or anywhere from D50, your basically just giving the opposition an opportunity to score. Not sure Sidey's in game thinking has switched to a defenders way of thinking.
Unfortunately for Sidey, the coaches won't play him anywhere else, which begs the question, why not play him inside F50, as a lead up forward? He certainly has the footy smarts and is usually good on both sides of the body, so he could use any angle or space of the F50 to have a shot on goal....

 

[Unknown Identity]

AJ is better than Krueger.
Dean was OK, looks a player.
We were just undermanned.

I'm not saying Dean isn't ok.
Why was he left on Darcy?

 

[loki04]

Stop with the Frampton down back. We have no rucks. Cameron and Frampton. That's it. You want Cameron to go with English and Lobb all game?

We were forced to have Frampton ruck and rest forward. There was no other option. Would it be good to have Frampton on Darcy? Yes but Dean, Moore and Howe had that job. We don't play one on one in backline. And none of them could ruck.

We win games because we play roles and are a structured team.

When you say Frampton needed to be back then tell me who replaces Cox as second ruck tonight????




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AJ.

He's done it before.

Only needs to make a contest and have our mids set up to defend the oppo tap.

 

[VinnieB]

Look at that team...
It is very low on talent the bottom 6-8 players ..
To get that close with that team was good coaching.
Make no mistake there was some terrible players tonight.
There was some great efforts.
Daicos.both.
Noble disgrace....always hugh turnovers.
Johnston. Actually feel sorry him.
There effort overall is good. The team that is.
The coaches are not to blame.
We lack talent depth.
The draft is a farce. Look at academies up north. Even competition???
Hypocrisy. The King with no clothes...
A joke.
Don't blame the coaches.
And by the way what other sport in the world changes its rules each week fortnight. The high flyers at AFL have everyone bluffed ..
They change this...
Then see that isn't right
Then change that
On and on.
Don't blame the coaches

How much depth of AFL ready can a club have. 16 players out with 14 of those being senior and the next level of players to come in.

But in both games (including travelling to Perth) we were leading going into the final 10 minutes of the game, against teams who expect to play finals.

Not sure what more we want and expect. We could be Richmond and get belted by 100 points.

 

[Captivating]

AJ.

He's done it before.

Only needs to make a contest and have our mids set up to defend the oppo tap.

hmmm....even the bolded bit might be out of reach for AJ

 

[loki04]

I personally would have played Kreuger over Johnson but to suggest with any degree of certainty that he’d have done better tonight is just purely speculative guesswork. Especially given Johnson’s record at senior level is superior to Kreuger’s.

We did see Howe move forward in the last and the footy never got there so it was clearly a poor move, and if you’re suggesting we should have done it all game in order to send Frampton back to defence then who gives Cameron a chopout?

Johnson record playing KPF target especially bang down the line is not superior to Kreugers.

Johnsons best games come next to Miho and Cox. Not as the kingpin.

Kreuger has presence and will split the packs. Does not die wondering.

 

[Unknown Identity]

One thing is for certain, years of neglecting KPP's is really biting us on the ass.

 

[loki04]

hmmm....even the bolded bit might be out of reach for AJ

He only needed to give Cameron a spell and get busy once the ball hits the deck defensively to help lock it in the stoppage.

This was in reply to who chops Cameron out question.
AJ only passage he played with real intent came in the last Q after coming from the bench.

 

[loki04]

How much depth of AFL ready can a club have. 16 players out with 14 of those being senior and the next level of players to come in.

But in both games (including travelling to Perth) we were leading going into the final 10 minutes of the game, against teams who expect to play finals.

Not sure what more we want and expect. We could be Richmond and get belted by 100 points.

Would be nice if we had some developing KPP in the VFL of genuine size and height.

Not undersized medium flankers.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

One thing is for certain, years of neglecting KPP's is really biting us on the ass.

I’ll happily take the premiership thanks.

Our kpps whilst not superstars are injured.

 

[loki04]

Is he still on our payroll?

Not 100% sure think it might be his last year on it.

 

[jmac70]

He only needed to give Cameron a spell and get busy once the ball hits the deck defensively to help lock it in the stoppage.

This was in reply to who chops Cameron out question.
AJ only passage he played with real intent came in the last Q after coming from the bench.

If it’s so easy, why didn’t the coaches do it?

 

[loki04]

If it’s so easy, why didn’t the coaches do it?

You will have to ask them.

Again likely they backed in the pre planned systems and structure hoping we would get out of jail in a tight one.

 

[jmac70]

You will have to ask them.

Again likely they backed in the pre planned systems and structure hoping we would get out of jail in a tight one.

Well, we almost did. In fact, we might of if we kick straight.

 

[jmac70]

I'm not saying Dean isn't ok.
Why was he left on Darcy?

Darcy on Darcy would be weird.