Autopsy Round 19 = Hawthorn 133-67 Collingwood

[danielnajdek]

Miers killed us last week and did nothing tonight. That’s all the proof you need to see how much we’ve fallen.

 

[sr36]

Probably because we have had a couple of one-in-a generation players, and despite our poor trading, we still have won a couple of GFs.
You pointed out Geelong have traded badly as well.
How many GF's have they been in, and how many have they won in the last 19 years? And how many finals they ave missed?
Why haven't we be as good as them recently, and have a mini dynasty?
How come Richmond and Hawthorn have been better recently?

No I didn't say Geelong have traded badly. I said they'd had some misses. All teams do, there's not enough spots in a team or dollars in your salary cap for all your bets to pay off.

Richmond were great because of their coaching. It's basically taken until this year for their game plan - our game plan - to be worked out.

 

[ottoman]

Am I allowed to be negative about the club after today or are am I going to be told to go back to my negative nancy group. But hey we only lost by 11 goals so it’s all butterflies and daises down at Collingwood.

Yeah go back to your negative nancy group.
We lost by 11 goals but did you see how wonderful the conditions were out there.
In such perfect conditions your are going to kick 20 or so goals.
Or 20 or so behinds if you're Collingwood.

 

[Bianconeri]

And Adams would have come in handy without Mitchell

We miss him more than Ginnivan

 

[slugger01]

No I didn't say Geelong have traded badly. I said they'd had some misses. All teams do, there's not enough spots in a team or dollars in your salary cap for all your bets to pay off.

Richmond were great because of their coaching. It's basically taken until this year for their game plan - our game plan - to be worked out.

Ok.

My opinion is that we have been well below a pass in our trading for players.
We are fortunate we have had Daicos x 2 and Moore as F/Sons recently, which we didn't have to trade for, as well as some once in a lifetime players like in Pendles and Sidey.
But we keep failing ourselves by overpaying when we buy, and selling cheap when we sell.
Imagine if we broke even. Imagine having pick 6 this year.
Imgine if we kept 2 first round picks instead of giving them to Brisbane (for a player we should have known about his issues) in 2018.
And so on..

 

[Bianconeri]

Our trades look bad if you only look at the bad ones. And exaggerate how bad some were. The Murray trade worked out as a 7 pick downgrade from pick 35 to 42 or something similar and is still regularly bemoaned as a disaster.

It wasn’t a disaster but it was still extremely poor value. We finished 13th in 2017 whilst Essendon 7th yet they were able to get an established gun in Adam Saad with their future second rounder.

 

[lethalburns]

One thing that has not been discussed much is the amount of elite contested ball winning grunt that we have lost compared to 2023.

Mitchell injured/out
Adams gone/out
Degoey playing injured/below best

It was really obvious against the Hawks. They monstered us and took a huge amount of territory.

Our ability to attract quality free agents this off season (in the right areas) will determine if we can have 1 more crack with the statesmen on our list. It needs to be the sort of free agency Sydney had last year where they managed to find 3 quality inclusions on the cheap.

Unpleasant to watch at the moment but I am so grateful that we banked one last year. Teams had figured us out by the end of 2023 and we managed to grind 3 gutsy wins to bring home our 16th. I'd much prefer to rebuild off a flag than rebuild off 2 years of 'great efforts' with no ultimate success.

 

[Brad Goodman]

Nick Daicos off HB line streaming forwards starting and then finishing the handball chain to deliver inside 50 got us out of jail so many times.

He connected the backline to the forward line and allowed those comebacks to happen when otherwise typically wouldn't.

He whilst is still having a great year as a mid is not as damaging by foot due to role.

I guess he’s been more centre square through necessity but I reckon we are so much better with him off half back as you say. It just makes us so much more dynamic. Come back soon Tom Mitchell!

 

[BEEG]

Well yeah that was an absolute disgrace

 

[BEEG]

That’s it for us until the 30’s. No way we rebuild quickly with so many old players and no young players coming up except Nick. No draft early draft picks because of moronic trades done by a guy who couldn’t pick an apple in an orchard. Comprising drafts coming in with Tassie so there’s zero chance we see finals for the rest of this decade.

Leppa needs to go back to backline coach, none of this rotation of coaches to let them grow. The hippy dippy bullshit didn’t work and screwed us.

Can’t do anything about injuries that happens.

Lastly ffs can we recruit key position players not crap like Begg and Steene who are not rucks or keys.

September 2032 could be big the Brisbane Olympics and our return to finals.

I think we have 1 more to contend then it's going be grim after that.

 

[Drought Break]

A bad day

But the sky isn’t falling in… just the end of the current cycle

2014-2017 the club was mediocre … but bought in the talent through draft and trade that set up 2018 and the core of the current list

Pies need to do the same now… look at how Geelong had a bad post flag year… then retired a few and drafted well and are now back in top 6 contention

We don’t get the “ generous “ trades that Geelong and Carlton seem to get gifted with. GWS and GC especially charitable but not with us. And we don’t have a high first round pick.

 

[Hairydawg]

I don’t think it’s right to celebrate Shultz trade at start of the year and then bag the trade now. If you were never a fan of the trade, fine, bag away. But I feel there’s a lot of Derek Hindsight Campaigners on this site.

 

[Drought Break]

We have our 2025 1st? Surely we weren’t silly enough to trade that

Probably trade that away for that “ gun” kpp forward we need. Our recruiting team probably looking at someone like Petty from Melbourne

 

[BuildEmUp]

All I want to know is when are we going to sack the imbeciles at the club who gave away a top 10 draft pick for Schultz and gave away Ginnivan to Hawthorn for nothing.

Why are you focussing on on e player ( andwe wasnt evenplaying!) ? there are 22 players out there and none accountable other than Naicos - FFS this landslide has ZERo to do with recruiting a player to replace Ginni

 

[Chrispiesssss]

We are underestimating the loss of Mitchell & Adams combined with a crap year for JDG & Pendles.

-50 disposals, -20 clearances, -15 tackles & -20 contested possessions.

Hence the consistent smashing in the midfield.

 

[BuildEmUp]

Probably trade that away for that “ gun” kpp forward we need. Our recruiting team probably looking at someone like Petty from Melbourne

We need more than a KPP , start with a midf

I agree, but where else does he play?

LRO

 

[BuildEmUp]

Keep side bottom pedalbury.
They are good
They try to kick to Collingwood players
Markov noble?????

huh?

 

[BuildEmUp]

That list you quoted is a testament to Hine’s incompetence,and why he needs to go now.

You know Hine is NOT the sole decision maker right?

 

[76woodenspooners]

That’s it for us until the 30’s. No way we rebuild quickly with so many old players and no young players coming up except Nick. No draft early draft picks because of moronic trades done by a guy who couldn’t pick an apple in an orchard. Comprising drafts coming in with Tassie so there’s zero chance we see finals for the rest of this decade.

The only thing that has been predictable under Fly is that our form has been so unpredictable.

Nobody expected a Prelim in his first year.
Nobody expected us to keep winning all those close games.
Nobody expected a Premiership in his second.
Nobody expected us to lose our first three games this season.
Then nobody expected us to win / draw 8 of our next 9. Back in June people were talking back-to-back.
Then nobody expected us to the drop four in a row.

The future is a blank canvas. We just need to strap ourselves in for the ride.

 

[Finnishpie]

One thing that has not been discussed much is the amount of elite contested ball winning grunt that we have lost compared to 2023.

Mitchell injured/out
Adams gone/out
Degoey playing injured/below best

It was really obvious against the Hawks. They monstered us and took a huge amount of territory.

Our ability to attract quality free agents this off season (in the right areas) will determine if we can have 1 more crack with the statesmen on our list. It needs to be the sort of free agency Sydney had last year where they managed to find 3 quality inclusions on the cheap.

Unpleasant to watch at the moment but I am so grateful that we banked one last year. Teams had figured us out by the end of 2023 and we managed to grind 3 gutsy wins to bring home our 16th. I'd much prefer to rebuild off a flag than rebuild off 2 years of 'great efforts' with no ultimate success.

I assumed, especially after the pre-season pronouncements , that Macrae was set for instant impact.

Development team clearly put him to work with Ash Johnson, who I thought would cover Ollie Henry’s loss when it happened.

 

[Captivating]

I assumed, especially after the pre-season pronouncements , that Macrae was set for instant impact.

Development team clearly put him to work with Ash Johnson, who I thought would cover Ollie Henry’s loss when it happened.

It appears the club mortgaged the future on Macrae and Ash.

I would Macrae in the middle for each of the remaining 5 games. Even if he stinks it up, it's wont be worse than what we are currently doing out of the middle.

Same with Ash - just play him now with McStay as the two KP forwards with Cox rotating through the forward 50.

 

[JLC]

Honestly who would you prefer next decade?
What off field behaviour? A snort in the lorne pub (99% off footballers) and going to the races? Was a case of the club not liking him and drinking their own bathwater which was shown in the first 3 rounds and today to be a bad call
Really think the club pulled the wrong reign.

I doubt we would know the full extent of the off field behaviour.

I don't think it's the club drinking the bathwater - that was Jack. He drank the tub dry.

Maybe the change of club made him pull his finger out and he is doing things that he wasn't prepared to do at Collingwood. Good on him.

 

[Chrispiesssss]

 

[Shade]

One of the most inept displays we have shown in years, a lot of our players need to have a look at themselves in the mirror and ask if they want to be here and put in the hard yards.

Just uncompetitive from the bounce struggling to find any positives whatsoever after that performance finals gone not much point paying the team any attention for the rest of the year.

 

[loki04]

One thing that has not been discussed much is the amount of elite contested ball winning grunt that we have lost compared to 2023.

Mitchell injured/out
Adams gone/out
Degoey playing injured/below best

It was really obvious against the Hawks. They monstered us and took a huge amount of territory.

Our ability to attract quality free agents this off season (in the right areas) will determine if we can have 1 more crack with the statesmen on our list. It needs to be the sort of free agency Sydney had last year where they managed to find 3 quality inclusions on the cheap.

Unpleasant to watch at the moment but I am so grateful that we banked one last year. Teams had figured us out by the end of 2023 and we managed to grind 3 gutsy wins to bring home our 16th. I'd much prefer to rebuild off a flag than rebuild off 2 years of 'great efforts' with no ultimate success.

If we are going to go balls again in it can not be at the cost of first rounders of any type.
It also can't be at the cost of sub 25 yo with talent read McCreery.

Has to be FA or cheap trades. Isaac Cummins etc
I'd also look at Charlie Dixon and/or Sam Day.

As long as we hold our draft hand it doesn't matter as we either succeed by winning or we get the result at the draft table that will help build the nucleus of the next team.