Autopsy Round 19 = Hawthorn 133-67 Collingwood

[ElliottsMaggies]

Except Brodie Grundy

Errol, Chad & Isaac could make any ruck look like a star. I'd take one of those over Grundy.

 

[ZEV]

Errol, Chad & Isaac could make any ruck look like a star. I'd take one of those over Grundy.

Didn't seem to work for Hickey, Ladhams and McClean

 

[ElliottsMaggies]

Didn't seem to work for Hickey, Ladhams and McClean

I reckon even they'd look pretty good this year with the form those 3 are in.

 

[anshell]

yeah, that’s nonesense.

I know we all tend to slip into black/white thinking, so it’s no big deal.

But they both would have made a difference. How big is a legitimate question. But not the “slightest bit” is just the slightest bit silly.

Well,we did lose the game by 66 points,so I doubt either would have made much of a difference to the final score.Ginnivan had 31 possessions for Hawthorn,but that’s only because he played for a side that totally dominated possessions.Had he played for us yesterday,I have a feeling he would have played very much like the rest of the team,badly,He probably would have played like he did in the Grand final(7 possessions) and made no impact at all.So yes,i don’t think either player would have made much of a difference to a side that was beaten badly right across the field.

 

[Captivating]

Well,we did lose the game by 66 points,so I doubt either would have made much of a difference to the final score.Ginnivan had 31 possessions for Hawthorn,but that’s only because he played for a side that totally dominated possessions.Had he played for us yesterday,I have a feeling he would have played very much like the rest of the team,badly,He probably would have played like he did in the Grand final(7 possessions) and made no impact at all.So yes,i don’t think either player would have made much of a difference to a side that was beaten badly right across the field.

Yeah, but Ginnivan didn't get 31 easy disposals. He worked his arse off getting linking possessions on the wing and worked hard in F50. He also provided all of the forward pressure that Shultz provides. That's what hurts. We had a good young player and decided to replace him with a downgrade.

 

[sr36]

Except Brodie Grundy

It's funny how quickly things turn. When we were the transition kings, a ruck like Cameron who could get back to stiffen the defence and help us intercept was the way to go, but now that we can't move the footy and are also getting bullied around stoppage Grundys grunt would be excellent.

 

[manicpie]

It's funny how quickly things turn. When we were the transition kings, a ruck like Cameron who could get back to stiffen the defence and help us intercept was the way to go, but now that we can't move the footy and are also getting bullied around stoppage Grundys grunt would be excellent.

I think the biggest problem with our ruckman is that the modern day ruckman are becoming much more athletic and have good follow-up work. Cameron is very flat footed and is being found out a bit. At least Smit looks a more modern style ruck.

 

[BuildEmUp]

Reef appears to be too slow from what I have seen and has a turning circle akin to a truck. Not sure this will work to be fair. However, he has a great kick and good at kicking goals on set shots. He would be a perfect Mihocek replacement

Slow? https://www.afl.com.au/news/526340/...timer-checking-his-clock-but-will-he-be-a-pie

 

[BuildEmUp]

I'm not sure we'd get a first round pick for any of the 4 mentioned players. Unless we get a first round pick, then we are better off keeping them for one more year

I dont think we would even get a second rounder , maybe Mitchell as is the youngest .. no one is gunna want the others

 

[sr36]

I think the biggest problem with our ruckman is that the modern day ruckman are becoming much more athletic and have good follow-up work. Cameron is very flat footed and is being found out a bit. At least Smit looks a more modern style ruck.

I'm a Cameron fan, but the game seems to shift so quickly. The tigers model made intercept and manic transition king, but the game seems to have shifted back towards stoppage and then control. Back to Grundy.

No idea what it will be come finals. The most open year ever, I think.

 

[FromTheBoundaryLine]

This morning’s Google search tying to resolve my team’s form issues: spontaneous rebalancing in systems theory. lol.

 

[Kes1984]

Just watched Fly’s presser and holy shit that was embarrassing

To have the gall to use the words “we’re still getting better every day” after what we’ve dished up in the last month and ultimately today, is unacceptable

Agree - sounded absolutely ridiculous!

The same recycled lip service - words without action mean nothing.

But after that performance, he also now sounds utterly delusional. We are not getting better - we in fact, are getting worse by the week.

 

[Mollythedolly]

None of us aren’t celebrating our premiership win. But don’t you think it was folly to trade for a player who doesn’t suit our needs while giving away a top 10 draft pick, and trading away a 21 yo premiership player for peanuts?

People keep banging on about the Schultz - Ginnivan trade but they were separate deals. Schultz was locked in BEFORE Ginnivan requested a trade. Ginnivan was contracted so his request was unexpected.

 

[cfc19902010]

People keep banging on about the Schultz - Ginnivan trade but they were separate deals. Schultz was locked in BEFORE Ginnivan requested a trade. Ginnivan was contracted so his request was unexpected.

Yes

They individually were both bad

 

[Mollythedolly]

The VFL team is near bottom of the ladder because of the injuries at AFL level. We have had to use something like 37 players on our list this season. In turn the VFL side has struggled.
The only thing with Fly, and he's had a fantastic 2 season's, this season will be an average one for him, is our game plan hasn't really evolved from the last 2 years. It looks like we don't have another option we can go to in terms of a game plan, whether that's complacency that we thought teams wouldn't work out how to basically blow up our game plan or we could continue to do what we have been the past 2 seasons, l'm not sure.
And with Moore, l don't think the coaching staff did the best they could do for him. I didn't understand yesterday when we were 10 goals down, the game and season were over, that we decide to move him forward and pinch hit in the ruck. To me continually playing Moore in the same position, in the same role and expecting a different result was just wishful thinking.
Moore should have been moved 4 weeks ago forward. I thought Frampton was playing well as a defender, before he was moved forward. Frampton then lost form and confidence and eventually we saw him dropped.
I would have kept Frampton back, with Howe and moved Moore forward to relieve him of the pressure he was under. Our captain is a shell of the defender he was in 2022/23, and each week it has been getting worse. I really expect to see Moore named full forward against Richmond. If not, then why??
In saying that l have faith in Fly, he has got us a premiership, and deserves the utmost respect, but unfortunately this season l feel the players have had average seasons and l don't think Fly has had his best year as coach. That can happen, we have had two prior huge years. Maybe fatigue has set in this year for everyone?
I believe we can bounce back next year. We have the talent, we have the coaches, we will add some players to our list, that hopefully can help in areas on the ground we need. I'm excited by some of the youth on the list. I think DeMattia, Jiath and Eyre will be very good players, and l hope they get a senior game or two before our season ends.

Hard to know if the game plan has evolved when we’ve struggled to apply it consistently over the last 6-7 games. That’s more about cattle than the game plan. The game plan was good enough to get us to only lose 1 game in 8 earlier in the season when there was more consistent application of it.

 

[cakewalk_1]

Reef appears to be too slow from what I have seen and has a turning circle akin to a truck. Not sure this will work to be fair. However, he has a great kick and good at kicking goals on set shots. He would be a perfect Mihocek replacement

Not having Murphy, Mihocek and McStay for most of this year has hurt our structure.
Reef is not a key position player and doesn't possess the strength of Brody who has a massive torso with shorter legs. Liken to the strong men seen in those circus movies of the the 1950's in the Hollywood golden era.

 

[Mollythedolly]

Ok let’s look at it another way. We both agree that Jack Ginnivan isn’t the nicest prospective son-in-law for the daughter to bring home to meet her parents. However, he knows how to play football and he’s 5 years younger and more mobile than Schultz. We also have Richards and Harrison to play the forward role. So what logical sense did it make to trade away Ginnivan for nothing and give away a top 10 draft pick for someone who’s essentially a role player, other than Schultz decided to want to come and play for Collingwood?

I think a quick comparison of their respective GPS data would show Schultz to be way more mobile than Ginnivan. Let’s not pretend this 1 game is reflective of Ginnivan’s output. Good for him if it sets him a new standard going forward that we start to see with some consistency, I hope it does, but to date, it’s an outlier.

 

[Kirby]

Agree - sounded absolutely ridiculous!

The same recycled lip service - words without action mean nothing.

But after that performance, he also now sounds utterly delusional. We are not getting better - we in fact, are getting worse by the week.

He should yell more and tell them all that they're useless.

That'll get em going!

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

Agree - sounded absolutely ridiculous!

The same recycled lip service - words without action mean nothing.

But after that performance, he also now sounds utterly delusional. We are not getting better - we in fact, are getting worse by the week.

Yeah insane stuff

"we're getting better every day"

Uh...is that just Monday to Thursday?

Gold Coast = 11 point loss
Essendon = 12 point loss
Geelong = 20 point loss
Hawthorn = 66 point loss


Don't know what to tell you Fly, but we are in fact getting worse every day

 

[Mollythedolly]

To be fair Ginnivan was never given the opportunity other than starvation corner

On SM-N975F using BigFooty.com mobile app

He was given midfield and HHF opportunity at VFL level to stake a claim. Never grabbed it over team mates given the same opportunities.

 

[ElliottsMaggies]

Hard to know if the game plan has evolved when we’ve struggled to apply it consistently over the last 6-7 games. That’s more about cattle than the game plan. The game plan was good enough to get us to only lose 1 game in 8 earlier in the season when there was more consistent application of it.

Exactly. I'm sick of people saying the oppo teams have worked out our game plan. We're currently not even attempting our game plan. Even if we were to apply more pressure & some of our infamous gang tackling, we'd be in a lot more games.

To me, it looks like the non stop injuries have finally caught up with us, any tweaks we were making to our game plan have been made more difficult to execute with different personnel every single week. They look mentally & physically exhausted.

 

[No SPIN]

Agree - sounded absolutely ridiculous!

The same recycled lip service - words without action mean nothing.

But after that performance, he also now sounds utterly delusional. We are not getting better - we in fact, are getting worse by the week.

Only fools take a single line from a presser to hang a Coach while ignoring the clear subtext that he’s frustrated and disappointed in the group.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

Only fools take a single line from a presser to hang a Coach while ignoring the clear subtext that he’s frustrated and disappointed in the group.

No one is saying he's not disappointed or frustrated.

We're specifically referring to the repeated platitudes which sounded great when we were winning, but sound unhinged when you're the worst you've been in his entire time coaching.

He's perfectly free to say it how it is

The majority of adults appreciate honesty and transparency

"We're getting better every day" fresh off our worst loss under Fly and 4th loss in a row- another first under Fly, is not honestly and transparency.

It's actually insulting to the fans

 

[No SPIN]

No one is saying he's not disappointed or frustrated.

We're specifically referring to the repeated platitudes which sounded great when we were winning, but sound unhinged when you're the worst you've been in his entire time coaching.

He's perfectly free to say it how it is

The majority of adults appreciate honesty and transparency

"We're getting better every day" fresh off our worst loss under Fly and 4th loss in a row- another first under Fly, is not honestly and transparency.

It's actually insulting to the fans

Like I said only fools focus on a single line to flog a Coach - if you don’t get he miss spoke then I can’t help you.

 

[cfc19902010]

I have complete confidence that fly will rise to the challenge
I’m sure behind closed doors there will be home truths
The press conferences are like feeding the chooks