Autopsy Round 19 = Hawthorn 133-67 Collingwood

[Mollythedolly]

No one is saying he's not disappointed or frustrated.

We're specifically referring to the repeated platitudes which sounded great when we were winning, but sound unhinged when you're the worst you've been in his entire time coaching.

He's perfectly free to say it how it is

The majority of adults appreciate honesty and transparency

"We're getting better every day" fresh off our worst loss under Fly and 4th loss in a row- another first under Fly, is not honestly and transparency.

It's actually insulting to the fans

I’m not insulted by them, but I’m not focused entirely on recent results as the metric. In my view, we are getting better. As an example, we’ve recently seen the return of McStay, Elliott, Cox, Pendles, JDG, and Parker from injury. That has to make us better even if it’s not reflected in an immediate change of fortunes.

 

[The Magnificent Seven]

Actions >>> Words in any case. I'm surprised Fly could actually string any words together after Saturday because I sure as hell was speechless.

 

[Mollythedolly]

Ginnivan has some talent but his attitude was poor and obviously thought not to be redeemable. I’d take the certainty of Schultz who’ll offer application and effort rather than the flaky Ginnivan.
Schultz definitely fitted, given our poor opinion of Ginnivan whose cards were stamped.
No one had a crystal ball so this absurd narrative about the pick is just hindsight and a waste of time.

The determinant of the trade was nothing more than Ginnivan requesting it. Our history is that if a player doesn’t want to be at Collingwood, we do what we can to make that happen rather than retain them.

 

[Mitchell Madness]

I have no issue with Ginnivan leaving the pies, He wanted to leave and play for the Hawks. I have no issue trading for Shultz.
My issue is we got a mars bar for the Ginni trade and gave up the farm for Shultz.

Welcome to the world of Graham Wright...

 

[Gone Critical]

He clocked 2.78 seconds in a 20 meter sprint. Usain Bolt's 20 meter time was 2.87 when he set the world record time of 9.69

Those times are done in a different way. Bolt from a standing start. Reef is no faster than Bolt over 20m.

 

[upnsmoke]

I'm a Cameron fan, but the game seems to shift so quickly. The tigers model made intercept and manic transition king, but the game seems to have shifted back towards stoppage and then control. Back to Grundy.

No idea what it will be come finals. The most open year ever, I think.

Only open for the non top 2 teams.

Swans and Lions are head and shoulders above.... considering Lions lost their first 5 games. GWS and then Carlton follow up, with Carlton's best chance is MCG factor.

 

[Nebula1971]

Watch us beat Carlton!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Big Bryza]

Look at all the premierships won in the last 20 years. The reality is unless you nail a first round draft pick, you’re never going to win a premiership (role players don’t win premierships). The last first round draft pick Hine nailed (if you rule out father - sons) is Scott Pendlebury. That was almost 20 years ago. We pay these guys a huge amount of money to pick the best players in the draft and if they fail year after year, how do they keep their jobs?

We've given away 6 first round picks in the past decade. We lost Freeman because he was made of tissue paper and Shaz had dodgy knees.

 

[Big Bryza]

Done diddly done. Ah well, it's been a fantastic couple of years. Something most other clubs could only dream of.
Let's hope we can at least watch Essendon and the scum crash and burn over the rest of the season.

100% this.

We've had 2 years that only dreams are made of. This year was always going to be a battle and it's proved the case.

Let's go Freo and the Giants. Fcuk the rest of those campaigners.

 

[Big Bryza]

9 games in a row with under 50 inside 50’s.

The ball movement and game plan has been blown apart.

You can't move the aggot when you barely get your hands on it!

 

[Big Bryza]

Except they shit the bed with the Nick Daicos pick 2 by not waiting for his draft year to know the pick they hold (again burnt by a future pick trade).

Similar to trading for Schultz last year looking top 5.

Also traded top 5 pick for McMahon/Poulter picks in 2020.


Treloar 2 x pick 7. Then trade him to Dogs for peanuts and pay him to bury us like last game where he was BoG imo. Still a very quality mid and would make us instantly better.

Lose top 5 ruck in Grundy for a pack of twisties and pay him to play against us.

Lost one of our gut running hard nosed passionate inside mids in Adams for crap.

Gave Ginnivan away.

Lost pick 6 Stephenson for a dogs breakfast.
Lost first rounder O.Henry to a competitor for an extra bread roll for Scotty Cummings.


So much young talent missed out on its crazy.

Where does the 2023 premiership fit in to all this chat?

 

[MagpieJo]

full album:

2024.07.20 loss to dawks

Explore this photo album by joanne carol on Flickr!

www.flickr.com

stuck on level 4 for the first 1/4


2024-07-20 loss to dawks (3 of 131) by joanne carol, on Flickr


2024-07-20 loss to dawks (6 of 131) by joanne carol, on Flickr



2024-07-20 loss to dawks (11 of 131) by joanne carol, on Flickr

2024-07-20 loss to dawks (12 of 131) by joanne carol, on Flickr

2024-07-20 loss to dawks (13 of 131) by joanne carol, on Flickr

you cant touch him pretender!!

2024-07-20 loss to dawks (14 of 131) by joanne carol, on Flickr


2024-07-20 loss to dawks (23 of 131) by joanne carol, on Flickr

Billy can dance!

2024-07-20 loss to dawks (24 of 131) by joanne carol, on Flickr

2024-07-20 loss to dawks (27 of 131) by joanne carol, on Flickr

fitting knickers

2024-07-20 loss to dawks (28 of 131) by joanne carol, on Flickr

2024-07-20 loss to dawks (35 of 131) by joanne carol, on Flickr

just a light shower!
2024-07-20 loss to dawks (37 of 131) by joanne carol, on Flickr



De Go Go!

2024-07-20 loss to dawks (67 of 131) by joanne carol, on Flickr

2024-07-20 loss to dawks (68 of 131) by joanne carol, on Flickr


2024-07-20 loss to dawks (72 of 131) by joanne carol, on Flickr


2024-07-20 loss to dawks (73 of 131) by joanne carol, on Flickr

go Howe!

2024-07-20 loss to dawks (78 of 131) by joanne carol, on Flickr

2024-07-20 loss to dawks (79 of 131) by joanne carol, on Flickr

sideys face!

2024-07-20 loss to dawks (82 of 131) by joanne carol, on Flickr

bobby doesnt get enough credit

2024-07-20 loss to dawks (87 of 131) by joanne carol, on Flickr


2024-07-20 loss to dawks (92 of 131) by joanne carol, on Flickr

2024-07-20 loss to dawks (95 of 131) by joanne carol, on Flickr


last 1/4, these guys were still singing and giving us a laugh!!

2024-07-20 loss to dawks (101 of 131) by joanne carol, on Flickr

2024-07-20 loss to dawks (102 of 131) by joanne carol, on Flickr

2024-07-20 loss to dawks (105 of 131) by joanne carol, on Flickr

2024-07-20 loss to dawks (106 of 131) by joanne carol, on Flickr

2024-07-20 loss to dawks (109 of 131) by joanne carol, on Flickr

2024-07-20 loss to dawks (111 of 131) by joanne carol, on Flickr

2024-07-20 loss to dawks (114 of 131) by joanne carol, on Flickr

 

[loki04]

Where does the 2023 premiership fit in to all this chat?

Do you think not maximising all of that played a part in that?

It's a stupid argument to even try link a lack of compensation and overpaying for players who weren't part of the flag as the reason we won one.

The coaching group maximised the playing list with a gameplan that was hard to counter at the time. A bit of fortune along the way didn't hurt either.

 

[Kes1984]

Watch us beat Carlton!!!


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just the sort of thing we'd be likely to do I reckon!

 

[Finnishpie]

Well,we did lose the game by 66 points,so I doubt either would have made much of a difference to the final score.Ginnivan had 31 possessions for Hawthorn,but that’s only because he played for a side that totally dominated possessions.Had he played for us yesterday,I have a feeling he would have played very much like the rest of the team,badly,He probably would have played like he did in the Grand final(7 possessions) and made no impact at all.So yes,i don’t think either player would have made much of a difference to a side that was beaten badly right across the field.

Okay, that's all fair enough. I can totally see that argument. Though I think he's improved this year, as you would expect a 22 year old to do.

 

[Finnishpie]

Trade Howe, Elliott, Pendles or Checkers?

I know, I know, I hate the idea. But we need to get back into the draft -- imho. Though I could see us going for one last run next year but the risk? The cliff. Think Richmond, North when they toppled, etc.

 

[Finnishpie]

I'm not sure we'd get a first round pick for any of the 4 mentioned players. Unless we get a first round pick, then we are better off keeping them for one more year

Yeah, you're probably right. How do we get back into the draft then? Shultz back to Freeo for number 7 and then Ginnivan back for the bag of chips?

I jest. But we need to get back into the first round of the draft I reckon, or we'll turn into the 90s version with Bucks, Burns, a few more and 6-7 C-minus battlers.

 

[Finnishpie]

Errol, Chad & Isaac could make any ruck look like a star. I'd take one of those over Grundy.

I think most would. But Grundy will be All Australian this year won't he? He's a clearance beast, and around the ground a midfielder. Would make us so much better.

The others are just superstars.

 

[No SPIN]

Where does the 2023 premiership fit in to all this chat?

Irrelevant apparently - so many have no sense of perspective.
I don’t recall this angst directed at Hine and Co. when we won the flag in September.

 

[No SPIN]

Do you think not maximising all of that played a part in that?

It's a stupid argument to even try link a lack of compensation and overpaying for players who weren't part of the flag as the reason we won one.

The coaching group maximised the playing list with a gameplan that was hard to counter at the time. A bit of fortune along the way didn't hurt either.

The stupidity is to not have the perspective to understand that despite the missteps, we still won a flag.
So by definition, those same missteps did NOT impeded our ability to win the only thing that counts.
In fact it could be argued that the missteps, actually increased the sense of urgency to find an alternative direction to ultimately win a flag

Mission accomplished.

 

[BuildEmUp]

Yeah, but Ginnivan didn't get 31 easy disposals. He worked his arse off getting linking possessions on the wing and worked hard in F50. He also provided all of the forward pressure that Shultz provides. That's what hurts. We had a good young player and decided to replace him with a downgrade.

we didnt decide to "repalce hm with a downgrade" , he left ( or was pushed)

Those times are done in a different way. Bolt from a standing start. Reef is no faster than Bolt over 20m.

I was merely pointing out to OP that they said REef was slow, clearly he is not

 

[doofdoof]

Only fools take a single line from a presser to hang a Coach while ignoring the clear subtext that he’s frustrated and disappointed in the group

It is not one line.

He is serving up the same tripe in his pressers week after week, while we have been clearly underperforming most of the year (5 games with consistent effort out of 18) and recently, by most objective measures, getting worse.

Moreover the team is obviously NOT responding to whatever the rose-colored glasses/head-in-sand crew think he is doing behind closed doors.

 

[No SPIN]

It is not one line.

He is serving up the same tripe in his pressers week after week, while we have been clearly underperforming most of the year (5 games with consistent effort out of 18) and recently, by most objective measures, getting worse.

Moreover the team is obviously NOT responding to whatever the rose-colored glasses/head-in-sand crew think he is doing behind closed doors.

Every Coach offers “tripe” - it’s part of controlling the narrative with the media.
So he’s not Robinson Crusoe in that regard.

 

[sr36]

It is not one line.

He is serving up the same tripe in his pressers week after week, while we have been clearly underperforming most of the year (5 games with consistent effort out of 18) and recently, by most objective measures, getting worse.

Moreover the team is obviously NOT responding to whatever the rose-colored glasses/head-in-sand crew think he is doing behind closed doors.

It's a simple message. Pick yourself up. Work hard. Try to get better.

How do you want him to diverge from that message?

 

[The Magnificent Seven]

To be fair, Fly did say - through pretty gritted teeth - that we were right on the edge of being losers. I.e. You can lose but still behave like winners, be he didn't think that was the club on Saturday.

Closest I've seen to him lose his cool. I bet the behind-closed-doors messaging was a little less diplomatic.