Review Round 24, 2023 - Brisbane Lions vs. St. Kilda

[3KZ is Football]

You did.

I was wrong . You were right.

And we both win.

That’s the spirit!

 

[Kernel Kurtz]

3ZK is like the film joker. Tells all these stories but I have a gut feeling the plot twist is he is actually in an asylum.

No he’s not
He’s right behind you

 

[3KZ is Football]

No he’s not
He’s right behind you

I know what Elixuh did last summer.

 

[DERRINALPHIL]

They get more fun running around in the forward line getting the occasional goal than they do getting scored against in defence or beaten up down field or in the middle. Want to see a kid give up? Set them unattainable goals AND WATCH THEM FAIL WEEK IN WEEK OUT. We made sure every kid kicked a goal and on weekends I would tell the midfielders to try and get it to kid x or kid y. I had one boy who is NEVER going to touch the ball in general play, NEVER EVER, be beside himself with joy when he marked a miss kick in the forward line and he turned around and kicked a goal. We played him in the forward pocket every game until he had that moment. He’ll be back next season. How about you get off your high horse and worry about something that concerns you? Conversely, maybe you could tell us about the hundreds of hours you have volunteered running a local Auskick Clinic, like I have, and reflect on the fact that almost all of the kids running around in the Under 11’s came through that Auskick program. So quick to jump to outrage Mighty Lions. Pfft.

My son was coached by a ex AFL player (won't mention his name but his two sons' play for Collingwood) so he had slightly better credentials so I always did the goal umpiring as that was the hardest job to fill'

Had a couple of Dads who were runners so the boundary umpiring was easy for us but as the kids got older, and so did the dads, most teams really needed two so they could keep up!

There are always a few who do most of the work (particularly at committee level)and they should be celebrated on Grand Final Day,

Thanks for your work 3KZ

 

[Mighty Lions]

Don’t be mistaken,kids want to win and if there is a player in the team that loses the ball all the time(for example) everyone would be aware of this,and if not managed you could be setting the kid up for ridicule.
My son used to play division one so I guess it was expected
If you don’t want the pressure go down a grade or two .
I’m sure 3kz has the kids best interest at heart.
You know what though I think competition should only ramp up as teenagers

Dont agree. Let me re-phrase my original post just a little:

I was President of a junior club back in 1997-2001. The AFL representatives in our region would often come to our club committee meetings and talk specifically about numbers in our game and how to keep them playing instead of dropping out. One main drop off factor was not giving kids a game or not moving them around the ground in different positions at the lower age levels. (7-12 year olds) Sure you be reasonable about it like not playing your shortest kid in the ruck or something similar to that. At one stage we had drama's with an u10's coach who wouldnt do just that and my AFL regional rep came in to investigate. After several requests to the coach to give the lesser talented (at that stage of their life) kids a fair go, we had no other choice other than the replace the coach. Some of those less talented kids turned out to be good players in later years simply because they were given the opportunity to play in situations that helped them develop.
At higher level age groups, winning certainly becomes more important to the teams & clubs but at early age development the main priority is keeping as many kids playing the game & having fun. Winning is part of that fun but certainly not top of the list. Additionally learning how to cope with losing was just as important as being a good winner.

 

[Mighty Lions]

They get more fun running around in the forward line getting the occasional goal than they do getting scored against in defence or beaten up down field or in the middle. Want to see a kid give up? Set them unattainable goals AND WATCH THEM FAIL WEEK IN WEEK OUT. We made sure every kid kicked a goal and on weekends I would tell the midfielders to try and get it to kid x or kid y. I had one boy who is NEVER going to touch the ball in general play, NEVER EVER, be beside himself with joy when he marked a miss kick in the forward line and he turned around and kicked a goal. We played him in the forward pocket every game until he had that moment. He’ll be back next season. How about you get off your high horse and worry about something that concerns you? Conversely, maybe you could tell us about the hundreds of hours you have volunteered running a local Auskick Clinic, like I have, and reflect on the fact that almost all of the kids running around in the Under 11’s came through that Auskick program. So quick to jump to outrage Mighty Lions. Pfft.

Good clarification...distinctly different to your initial post.
Congrats on your many hours of volunteering.
Not on a high horse at all but good on you if you think that....reducing the drop off rate of kids was and still is a very concerning part of my footy life which I also spent many hours at in many different roles. (as you did & do now)

 

[dmac_55]

Cricket is a whole different ball game to footy when it comes to those age levels.

I played 1 season of U12's cricket in a powerhouse side. Coach would bat the same guys 1-7 and they would all retire on 25 runs and bat 15 overs. I would be lucky to face an over and get to bowl maybe 1-2 overs. After a season I gave up, what's the point of this and started playing Tennis instead.

Basketball and Footy are much more team orientated and usually all players get to have a crack.

 

[royboys4eva]

If I was the Junior President of the club you coach the Under 11's at, and was aware of what you say you did, you would no longer be coach...simple as that. At that age, enjoyment of footy and keeping the kids in the game is far more important than winning ffs. Stunned you say you do that or maybe it was a joke? Hoping it was.

You clearly are not living in the real World. Sure, from for first three years from age 8-10 they all get a go in every position and it's about fun and learning skills. The competition we play from under 11s onwards its a ladder - finals - best and fairest for the comp and for your club - the best few players from each age group from each club get picked to go to a training camp at seasons end. Do you honestly think coaches are going to sacrifice all that just so little Johnny can have a half in the midfield - even though most likely he isn't a very good runner - doesn't train every week and just doesn't have the skills or fitness that the good players have? Every team and I mean every team - hides players in a forward pocket.

Coaches will always be fair with game time and make sure everyone gets plenty of time on the ground. But, you have to respect the good players who work their backsides off at training to be better players and to be fitter. I know if our team is winning easy we will swing it around and take good players off last qtr and give the lesser players a run in middle or different positions.

If you think that's not right - try getting your head around teams who come finals - drop the worst kids and bring up kids from lower age groups who are guns. That's something I find very distasteful. Regardless of ability every kid who has played all year, plays finals and gets on the ground - you don't drop them for better younger kids just so you can try and win a Premiership - but, trust me this happens a LOT.

Also never knock someone who gives up their time every week as a volunteer to coach or assistant coach.

 

[M Malice]

Cricket is a whole different ball game to footy when it comes to those age levels.

I played 1 season of U12's cricket in a powerhouse side. Coach would bat the same guys 1-7 and they would all retire on 25 runs and bat 15 overs. I would be lucky to face an over and get to bowl maybe 1-2 overs. After a season I gave up, what's the point of this and started playing Tennis instead.

Basketball and Footy are much more team orientated and usually all players get to have a crack.

That is sad to hear dmac.

I coached junior cricket at a private school and assisted in club cricket in the mid-late 90s, late primary and early high school years and I/we always gave the lesser talented kids a go up the batting order or a bowling stint.

Cricket took up a lot of time when my son was playing, he would play club/school cricket half a day Saturday and a full days rep cricket on Sundays, loved every minute of it though.

 

[martinson]

That is sad to hear dmac.

I coached junior cricket at a private school and assisted in club cricket in the mid-late 90s, late primary and early high school years and I/we always gave the lesser talented kids a go up the batting order or a bowling stint.

Cricket took up a lot of time when my son was playing, he would play club/school cricket half a day Saturday and a full days rep cricket on Sundays, loved every minute of it though.

I played a lot of cricket as a kid . In the end it just took up too much time out of my weekend. When you got to a prestigious uni with a district side they went down to the 4ths and the team initially got picked depending on which elite school you managed to go to . It saw many good players head to other district clubs.

Cricket is the most notorious sport where opportunity means a lot . You need time out in the middle against talented opposition to get better and sometimes you have to wait a long time to get that.

 

[DERRINALPHIL]

Cricket is a whole different ball game to footy when it comes to those age levels.

I played 1 season of U12's cricket in a powerhouse side. Coach would bat the same guys 1-7 and they would all retire on 25 runs and bat 15 overs. I would be lucky to face an over and get to bowl maybe 1-2 overs. After a season I gave up, what's the point of this and started playing Tennis instead.

Basketball and Footy are much more team orientated and usually all players get to have a crack.

My school team had three kids who played District Firsts so you can imagine how they dominated
One was a keeper but was our third best bowler

 

[martinson]

I played a lot of cricket as a kid . In the end it just took up too much time out of my weekend. When you got to a prestigious uni with a district side they went down to the 4ths and the team initially got picked depending on which elite school you managed to go to . It saw many good players head to other district clubs.

Cricket is the most notorious sport where opportunity means a lot . You need time out in the middle against talented opposition to get better and sometimes you have to wait a long time to get that.

Ian Botham played a year there before anyone knew who he was.

I could tell you some stories, but at the time we all thought he was a bit of a dud and there were far more talented players at the club.

The improvement he made in the next 4 years was astronomical.

 

[DERRINALPHIL]

3KZ actually seems quite smart to me.

Seen bigger self appointed and particularly self righteous lunatics on these threads than him.

OK I own up to the second bolded bit but remember first impressions can deceive.

 

[DERRINALPHIL]

Thanks for that martinson. Coming from you, that means a lot. I do believe I managed to swing you around to Ryan Lester, which did give me pleasure.

Wrong. Ryan Lester has swung many posters, and his own career, to the positive with a couple of very good seasons.

Two hundred games gets him life membership of the AFL and great seats on Boxing day.

He should get there.

 

[3KZ is Football]

Wrong. Ryan Lester has swung many posters, and his own career, to the positive with a couple of very good seasons.

Two hundred games gets him life membership of the AFL and great seats on Boxing day.

He should get there.

I hope so. When Lester first came to my attention, I started “isolating” him
in games and watching his contributions to individual passages and micro moments. I don’t think I have ever put as much time into analysing a single player’s performance and contribution. Fairly early, it became apparent to me from around 2018 that Lester was an exceptionally capable defensive footballer who should have been a “lock” as third tall. I had him rated, no (offence to the players concerned) well above Marcus Adams for general ground play (especially in contested ground ball) and reliability and edging or on a par with Darcy Gardiner for the same criteria. I had Lester rated above Gardiner for ball use and rebound capacity. This is when I really started to advocate for him on our board and I guess the more people were dismissive or cruel about Lester, the stronger I advocated for him, so I got into a Lester Obsession Spiral. The other thing I had noticed about Lester was the amount of time he spent giving direction to those around him. Always a positive in my book.

Since I first started putting air in Lester’s tyres he has had 3 periods of playing his “best football”, in 2020, 2021 and 2023. At this stage, almost everyone is prepared to concede he is in “career best form” this season, deserves to be selected in the seniors and is a big part of what I believe will be a premiership defence. My point is that very few players past the age of 30 suddenly turn their footy around and improve, unless perhaps they get a positional change. I think this is also true of Lester. He hasn’t really improved that much at all. He hasn’t got faster, learned to tackle better, improved his kicking or marking, reading the play better, learned how run into space or direct his teammates. He has been doing all of these things to his current standard for at least the last 5 years. What HAS made a difference for Lester is that we have drafted / included a number of other skilled ground ball players like Starcevich, Coleman, McKennna and Wilmot, which means Lester doesn’t have to carry the load as much when the ball is on the deck. This has freed him up to use some of his other weapons, especially his field kicking and this is what some people are noticing for the first time, giving them the mistaken belief that he had acquired new skills. He hasn’t, but I am rapt that he has acquired new fans!

During my time as a football fan, I have really only wanted one thing for an individual player. I really wanted Fitzroy to win a Premiership in 1983 for Gary Wilson and in 2023, I want Brisbane to win a flag so Ryan Lester can have that experience.

I’ve just done my third set of knee / leg exercises for the day (two to go) and I am hopped up on painkillers, but I hope that made sense. martinson M Malice DERRINALPHIL - what do you think?

 

[M Malice]

I hope so. When Lester first came to my attention, I started “isolating” him
in games and watching his contributions to individual passages and micro moments. I don’t think I have ever put as much time into analysing a single players performance and contribution. Fairly early, it became apparent to me from around 2018 that Lester was an exceptionally capable defensive footballer who should have been a “lock” as third tall. I had him rated, no (offence to the players concerned) well above Marcus Adams for general ground play (especially in contested ground ball) and reliability and edging or on a par with Darcy Gardiner for the same criteria. I had Lester rated above Gardiner for ball use and rebound capacity. This is when I really started to advocate for him on our board and I guess the more people were dismissive or cruel about Lester, the stronger I advocated for him, so I got into a Lester Obsession Spiral. The other thing I had noticed about Lester was the amount of time he spent giving direction to those around him. Always a positive in my book.

Since I first started putting air in Lester’s tyres he has had 3 periods of playing his best football, in 2020, 2021 and 2023. At this stage, almost everyone is prepared to concede he is in “career best form” this season, deserves to be selected in the seniors and is a big part of what I believe will be a premiership defence. My point is that very few players past the age of 30 suddenly turn their footy around and improve, unless perhaps they get a positional change. I think this is also true of Lester. He hasn’t really improved that much at all. He hasn’t got faster, learned to tackle better, improved his kicking or marking, reading the play better, learned how run into space or direct his teammates. He has been doing all of these things to his current standard for at least the last 5 years. What HAS made a difference for Lester is that we have drafted / included a number of other skilled ground ball players like Starcevich, Coleman, McKennna and Wilmot, which means Lester doesn’t have to carry the load as much when the ball is on the deck. This has freed him up to use some of his other weapons and this is what done people are noticing for the first time, giving them the mistaken belief that he had acquired new skills. He hasn’t, but I am rapt that he has acquired new fans!

During my time as a football fan, I have really only wanted one thing for an individual player. I really wanted Fitzroy to win a Premiership in 1983 for Gary Wilson and in 2023, I want Brisbane to win a flag so Ryan Lester can have that experience.

I’ve just done my third set of knee / leg exercises for the day( two to go) and I am hopped up on painkillers, but I hope that made sense. martinson M Malice Mighty Lions DERRINALPHIL - what do you think?

Yes the 3 most loyal Lions have been Zorks, Richy and Froggy, they stuck around through some horrendous times at the club, if we do manage to win it it would be fantastic to see them up on the dais accepting their medals.... one of them might even jag the Norm Smith.

No way Richy will be there though, for him it took 1 season too long.

 

[3KZ is Football]

Yes the 3 most loyal Lions have been Zorks, Richy and Froggy, they stuck around through some horrendous times at the club, if we do manage to win it it would be fantastic to see them up on the dais accepting their medals.... one of them might even jag the Norm Smith.

No way Richy will be there though, for him it took 1 season too long.

I just love watching the ‘Miracle on Grass’ footage and seeing Zorko, Rich and Lester out there celebrating.



(Edit) - Terrible jumper though.

 

[Scubaveg]

I hope so. When Lester first came to my attention, I started “isolating” him
in games and watching his contributions to individual passages and micro moments. I don’t think I have ever put as much time into analysing a single player’s performance and contribution. Fairly early, it became apparent to me from around 2018 that Lester was an exceptionally capable defensive footballer who should have been a “lock” as third tall. I had him rated, no (offence to the players concerned) well above Marcus Adams for general ground play (especially in contested ground ball) and reliability and edging or on a par with Darcy Gardiner for the same criteria. I had Lester rated above Gardiner for ball use and rebound capacity. This is when I really started to advocate for him on our board and I guess the more people were dismissive or cruel about Lester, the stronger I advocated for him, so I got into a Lester Obsession Spiral. The other thing I had noticed about Lester was the amount of time he spent giving direction to those around him. Always a positive in my book.

Since I first started putting air in Lester’s tyres he has had 3 periods of playing his “best football”, in 2020, 2021 and 2023. At this stage, almost everyone is prepared to concede he is in “career best form” this season, deserves to be selected in the seniors and is a big part of what I believe will be a premiership defence. My point is that very few players past the age of 30 suddenly turn their footy around and improve, unless perhaps they get a positional change. I think this is also true of Lester. He hasn’t really improved that much at all. He hasn’t got faster, learned to tackle better, improved his kicking or marking, reading the play better, learned how run into space or direct his teammates. He has been doing all of these things to his current standard for at least the last 5 years. What HAS made a difference for Lester is that we have drafted / included a number of other skilled ground ball players like Starcevich, Coleman, McKennna and Wilmot, which means Lester doesn’t have to carry the load as much when the ball is on the deck. This has freed him up to use some of his other weapons, especially his field kicking and this is what some people are noticing for the first time, giving them the mistaken belief that he had acquired new skills. He hasn’t, but I am rapt that he has acquired new fans!

During my time as a football fan, I have really only wanted one thing for an individual player. I really wanted Fitzroy to win a Premiership in 1983 for Gary Wilson and in 2023, I want Brisbane to win a flag so Ryan Lester can have that experience.

I’ve just done my third set of knee / leg exercises for the day (two to go) and I am hopped up on painkillers, but I hope that made sense. martinson M Malice Mighty Lions DERRINALPHIL - what do you think?

Blah blah blah, here I go again telling the world I know better.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[On the quiet]

He's the fire starter. When his head is in the game and his kicking is on, we look $1m. The key to our game plan is bravely switching play and getting to the forwards one out. That's what he does. Even tho' we lost to the Demons, those 2 quarters showed what we can do when we keep looking for opportunities - and not kicking it back down the line. He will get tagged.

Payne is an issue imo. Harris can't do it by himself and all teams will have a plan to nullify him - Howe and Melsham style. The loss of Adams has not really been rectified.

Lucky that Saints rested King - after what his brother did to us.

max king had very limited impact when marked by payne at marvel earlier in the year. Admittedly Membrey did not play. Curnow kicked one goal when Payne was on him earlier in the year, and that one goal actually when Lester was on him. Payne was performing well before appearing to injure his ankle a couple of months ago. Since then he has struggled a bit, and luckily Harris is playing well. However, over the last few months Payne has also held some pretty good players, Riewoldt, Hawkins and Walker to one or two goals the last couple of months. I believe a fully fit Payne more than covers the absence of Adams and obviously the club feels the same.

Walker kicked 9 against WC last weekend, with their $1m man McGovern playing. Larkey kicked 9 against Ballard and Collins. I think our defence is holding up reasonably well. No doubt will be a lot of ball coming in from the fast Port midfield and we will face a stern test, and I hope we adopt a close 1 v 1 aggressive marking defence.

Payne is an issue imo. Harris can't do it by himself and all teams will have a plan to nullify him - Howe and Melsham style. The loss of Adams has not really been rectified.

Lucky that Saints rested King - after what his brother did to us.

 

[3KZ is Football]

max king had very limited impact when marked by payne at marvel earlier in the year. Admittedly Membrey did not play. Curnow kicked one goal when Payne was on him earlier in the year, and that one goal actually when Lester was on him. Payne was performing well before appearing to injure his ankle a couple of months ago. Since then he has struggled a bit, and luckily Harris is playing well. However, over the last few months Payne has also held some pretty good players, Riewoldt, Hawkins and Walker to one or two goals the last couple of months. I believe a fully fit Payne more than covers the absence of Adams and obviously the club feels the same.

Walker kicked 9 against WC last weekend, with their $1m man McGovern playing. Larkey kicked 9 against Ballard and Collins. I think our defence is holding up reasonably well. No doubt will be a lot of ball coming in from the fast Port midfield and we will face a stern test, and I hope we adopt a close 1 v 1 aggressive marking defence.

I think Payne will be ok - some time off will help. We don’t know what he is carrying.

 

[martinson]

This is the first time in quite awhile that I've been worried about a game.

PA have just as much to prove as us and they won't give up.

We need to lift to a higher level than we've shown in the last few weeks , finals are a whole new ball game as we know.

The week off is going to help both teams , but of all the must win games we've had this year this is the one we must.

 

[On the quiet]

This is the first time in quite awhile that I've been worried about a game.

PA have just as much to prove as us and they won't give up.

We need to lift to a higher level than we've shown in the last few weeks , finals are a whole new ball game as we know.

The week off is going to help both teams , but of all the must win games we've had this year this is the one we must.

I am glass half full, and believe with Linc coming back, Dev, Fletcher and Ah Chee should all play.

We cannot afford our forwards to miss straight forward kicks 20 meters out.

IF we can isolate Aliir, and that arguably means a forward sacrifices their game and if that strategy can prevent him from intercepting, and with an aggressive 1 x 1 defensive set up, I feel reasonably confident. Whilst I think 2/5 on is too short, we do deserve to be favourites and have an outstanding record at the GABBA

 

[Scubaveg]

3KZ actually seems quite smart to me.

Seen bigger self appointed and particularly self righteous lunatics on these threads than him.

At least if you disagree with him he sucks it up.

Doesn't send laughing emojis and whatever else drivel emoji people do these days to cover up their inability to engage on anything other than a mocking trivial discourse.

The more I think about 3KZ the more I like him . Always in good humour with friend and foe alike.

Just putting it out there because I hardly thumb up any of his posts. So just giving him a big thumb up despite the many opinions I mightn't agree with.

The guy coach’s under 11’s and thinks he knows more then Fagan. Has a habit of shouting others down who have a different opinion. The block function is not even helpful any longer, every other post is just responding to his dribble which means none of the threads are coherent reading when the block function is activated. Each to their own I guess.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[martinson]

I am glass half full, and believe with Linc coming back, Dev, Fletcher and Ah Chee should all play.

We cannot afford our forwards to miss straight forward kicks 20 meters out.

IF we can isolate Aliir, and that arguably means a forward sacrifices their game and if that strategy can prevent him from intercepting, and with an aggressive 1 x 1 defensive set up, I feel reasonably confident. Whilst I think 2/5 on is too short, we do deserve to be favourites and have an outstanding record at the GABBA

We're deservedly favs. and should win.

I just feel confidence draining away from me when everyone thinks the same and they're more worried about Melbourne than Port.

Port's a good outfit and they'll keep coming in this game.

The gambler in me doesn't want to take short odds after 11 straight. You get extreme value going against that.

It's possible we blast them off the park but my feeling is it'll be a much tighter game than everyone expects.

 

[Dalions]

We're deservedly favs. and should win.

I just feel confidence draining away from me when everyone thinks the same and they're more worried about Melbourne than Port.

Port's a good outfit and they'll keep coming in this game.

The gambler in me doesn't want to take short odds after 11 straight. You get extreme value going against that.

It's possible we blast them off the park but my feeling is it'll be a much tighter game than everyone expects.

I am expecting a tight game.