Autopsy Round 6, 2020: Fremantle v St.Kilda

[plugger66]

You get 5 pages of crap because people like you can't be bothered to discuss with any nuance.

No let’s forget nuance and remember the first words on this. It’s all on the players. That’s 100%.

 

[plugger66]

if we are going to have a season of stupidity and blown chances, this is the year to do it. given how the season is panning out.

No it’s the worst year. Think of the future.

 

[StCicatriz]

Yes and now the fact that we probably have to travel every week, or at least not play at Marvel again this year.

Maybe I need to change my perspective and think of this year as a project year. Playing 15 games interstate could fast track our development and finally rectify our issues of playing outside of Marvel. Not to mention the time the players will spend together.

And of course blowing two massive leads at least puts the spotlight on our inability to handle adversity within the game, maybe it is something we focus more on and if it didn't happen we could've been papering over the cracks somewhat, not realising it was actually a bigger issue than first thought.

100% with you on that.

maybe it is one big giant pre-season comp. like NAB used to be. they'll present a cup but it's gloried pre-season cup.

 

[George]

100% with you on that.

maybe it is one big giant pre-season comp. like NAB used to be. they'll present a cup but it's gloried pre-season cup.

It would be an incredible premiership to win but if it's going to take travelling every week and losing games like we have to finally get our act together in 2021 then so be it. I am one of those bad losses away from not watching us for the rest of the year. Once in a year hurts but can be forgiven, twice is taking the piss.

 

[StCicatriz]

It would be an incredible premiership to win but if it's going to take travelling every week and losing games like we have to finally get our act together in 2021 then so be it. I am one of those bad losses away from not watching us for the rest of the year. Once in a year hurts but can be forgiven, twice is taking the piss.

dont show the players that
#challengeaccepted
#HoldMyBeer
#wantToSeeSomeRealSpeedBitch

 

[gringo2011]

No I just get tired of going back and forth about it and the fact you keep replying to me isn't going to stop me from telling you you are wrong. Now you reckon you know what I'll say later in the year haha. We have a track record of capitulating in games we are expected to win and have shown many times over many games our deficiencies when it comes to resilience and dealing with adversity. How is effort the coaches fault. Our pressure dropped to below AFL standard after quarter time and you're telling me it's a 50/50 split in terms of accountability. Nonsense.


Almost half the side out there on the weekend played in that game.


I believe it can be coached. I think we have good enough players. I think we are talented enough to compete with any side. Majority here are giving this coaching group way too much responsibility for what happened on the weekend though. I am yet to hear any explanation on why it's the coaches fault our pressure dropped from 1.98 to 1.48 within two quarters. Our effort & pressure were elite, so I'm not expecting it to remain at that level, but if we had managed to keep it at least respectable, we would've won that game. I'm not sure many realise how badly we fell away. It was a 7 goal turnaround in 45 minutes of play. We could've had the best game plan in the league, if our pressure falls below AFL standard then any team will beat us. Are we not fit enough? If we aren't, then why isn't it the players responsibility to manage themselves properly? If we are, then why did we capitulate as we did? Maybe we thought it was going to be a cakewalk...in fact I'm almost certain that was the case.

How do you get the talent assessment though? Our best players in 2020 are Jones a messy half back playing inside mid and averaging 18 disposals, Billings a soft outside player who doesn't like contact, Steele, a big mid who isn't overly great at winning his own ball etc. We still don't have any stars, Gresham, Marshall and Battle have all regressed and Seb is playing like shit. Hill has been ordinary.

Our kids in King, Clark, Paton and Coffield are our most promising apart from Wilkie. Carlisle is playing well but fell away this week. Hanners went down again after his few games for the year etc.

We seem to get a lot out of a pretty ordinary list to me. If you break it down by areas of high quality players you get

Forwards- Membrey and Butler with King looking promising. Butler looks A grade, Membrey started slowly but has picked up lately. King showing glimpses for a young kid.

Mids- Steele B grade, Jones- B grade, Hanners- B grade and injury prone. Billings on the wings who is playing as well as he ever has but still lacks something.

Backs- Carlisle- B grade, Hunter- B Grade and climbing, Coffield not far behind, Paton similar to Coffield, Wilkie- heading toward A grade.

The rest are just going and making up numbers. Seb, Hill, Marshall, Lonie etc are not playing to their best and are not pulling their weight. Overall I would put our list as similar to Carlton and Hawks in quality but we probably have a more even spread of talent where they both have better top end players.

We might have the talent on the list already but at this point of their development they aren't a premiership side in a normal year. Playing top sides without Hanners loses a huge part of our midfield quality in an area that we are already light on.

 

[George]

How do you get the talent assessment though? Our best players in 2020 are Jones a messy half back playing inside mid and averaging 18 disposals, Billings a soft outside player who doesn't like contact, Steele, a big mid who isn't overly great at winning his own ball etc. We still don't have any stars, Gresham, Marshall and Battle have all regressed and Seb is playing like sh*t. Hill has been ordinary.

Our kids in King, Clark, Paton and Coffield are our most promising apart from Wilkie. Carlisle is playing well but fell away this week. Hanners went down again after his few games for the year etc.

We seem to get a lot out of a pretty ordinary list to me. If you break it down by areas of high quality players you get

Forwards- Membrey and Butler with King looking promising. Butler looks A grade, Membrey started slowly but has picked up lately. King showing glimpses for a young kid.

Mids- Steele B grade, Jones- B grade, Hanners- B grade and injury prone. Billings on the wings who is playing as well as he ever has but still lacks something.

Backs- Carlisle- B grade, Hunter- B Grade and climbing, Coffield not far behind, Paton similar to Coffield, Wilkie- heading toward A grade.

The rest are just going and making up numbers. Seb, Hill, Marshall, Lonie etc are not playing to their best and are not pulling their weight. Overall I would put our list as similar to Carlton and Hawks in quality but we probably have a more even spread of talent where they both have better top end players.

We might have the talent on the list already but at this point of their development they aren't a premiership side in a normal year. Playing top sides without Hanners loses a huge part of our midfield quality in an area that we are already light on.

You may think we get a lot out of an ordinary list but I think you just undervalue the list.

Steele can win his own ball.
Jones averaging 18 touches a game in shortened quarters is actually quite good. It actually averages out to 23 touches a game in the regular format.
Billings isn't that type of player. He is the cream. Outside player who polishes off the work done by the inside players.

Not sure you can say Marshall has regressed after six games. He has gone from absolutely nowhere to now becoming our number one ruckman and one of the best young ruckmen in the competition. He was ranked #1 overall out of any player, not just ruckman, for the last ELEVEN rounds of 2019.

Gresham's disposal is terrible, but he has x-factor about him and plenty of potential.

And on potential, given the kids we have are all so young, potential is really all we can go on - we can't judge them one way or another just yet. They may not be stars but why would they be after a couple years in the system? They need time to develop.

Gresham, Wilkie, King, Howard, Clark, Coffield, Battle, Billings, Steele all have A Grade potential. I don't know what the gripe is with some over Steele, to me he is our best midfielder and actually one of the best defensive mids in the competition. I think he laid the most tackles of any player last year?

Seb is done, he is actually a liability now.

Forward pocket is the hardest spot on the ground to play so I will give Lonie a pass. Maybe the emergence of Butler has us all expecting Lonie to do the same.

We beat the reigning premiers, I'm not sure how you can say the list doesn't have the potential to match it with the best sides.

We have the ability to beat good sides and we have enough on the list to become a good side. Our issue isn't lack of talent or depth, it's consistency of effort.

 

[Saints43]

‘Who do we want to be?’: Inside St Kilda’s brutal Round 6 review

Step inside St Kilda's honest review following Saturday's match against Fremantle.

www.saints.com.au

really good article. with some super interesting points.

especially with the comment on steele and JB.

i know it's all words and it means nothing until we see action. but it's a great insight.

Ratts: They’ll never take the ’95 Premiership away from me.

They should though.

 

[Diehard Saint]

[

Just arguing for the sake of arguing. No convincing argument really, interesting you tell me to have some evidence to back up my opinion when your opinion doesn't have any.

It's like stepping on eggshells...


Every prime time game we've had the past half a decade. Every time the media pumps us up. Our performance against Essendon after beating Richmond in 2017.

Time and time again there's enough evidence to suggest it's definitely not the coaching.

How many players do we still have from 2017?

 

[Diehard Saint]

if we are going to have a season of stupidity and blown chances, this is the year to do it. given how the season is panning out.

perfect time to get games into a few of the youngsters as well.

 

[George]

[


How many players do we still have from 2017?

Not sure but in that game specifically (v Bombers) we had 12 players who are still on our list.

 

[George]

Here we go. This is what I'm talking about.

‘Who do we want to be?’: Inside St Kilda’s brutal Round 6 review

Step inside St Kilda's honest review following Saturday's match against Fremantle.

www.saints.com.au

I knew he wouldn't let this kind of crap slide.

Fills me with some optimism at least.

 

[gringo2011]

Here we go. This is what I'm talking about.

‘Who do we want to be?’: Inside St Kilda’s brutal Round 6 review

Step inside St Kilda's honest review following Saturday's match against Fremantle.

www.saints.com.au

I knew he wouldn't let this kind of crap slide.

Fills me with some optimism at least.

I thought that was a puff piece that doesn't really suggest that we slap them into line enough.

 

[Brains Trust66]

The Saints Big Footy Podcast is back looking at the Freo loss . Plus can Brainstrust66 use his curse for good this week against Adelaide, he selects two Adelaide players he thinks might have a big game .

‎The Animal Enclosure Podcast on Apple Podcasts

‎Sports · 2021

podcasts.apple.com

On iPad using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[SaintsSeptember]

FFS Billings isn't Dustin Martin, but he's no Aaron Fiora either.
He's wins way more contested ball than Hill for example.

 

[plugger66]

Not sure but in that game specifically (v Bombers) we had 12 players who are still on our list.

Yep but only 9 played. More than 33% didn’t.

 

[George]

Yep but only 9 played. More than 33% didn’t.

Yes I know that, I said that to you earlier.

 

[Joffaboy]

I thought that was a puff piece that doesn't really suggest that we slap them into line enough.

Absolutely.

Just the same old words we hear year in year out.
These players take money on false pretences.
My direct debit came out today. First time I have resented it.
I can't believe some people are OK with what happened on the weekend.

 

[Murraj1966]

This loss has hung around like a bad smell.

When it's still stinging on Wednesday night you know it was a shocker.

 

[Premium]

Haven’t ready many If ant who are ok with what happened. Read fools who think we didn’t try though.

All of these guys have there career on the line every time they step on to the field , they would be humiliated by how the game panned out.
Leathlean calling out how poorly Hill and Ross played would of stung them.

 

[gringo2011]

FFS Billings isn't Dustin Martin, but he's no Aaron Fiora either.
He's wins way more contested ball than Hill for example.

He still plays pretty bruise free and will give off before taking on contact. He's a silk cherry on a turd cake though. He's still probably our classiest and best player.

 

[gringo2011]

All of these guys have there career on the line every time they step on to the field , they would be humiliated by how the game panned out.
Leathlean calling out how poorly Hill and Ross played would of stung them.

Yeah, Hill will be stung, just not in his hip pocket which looks a bit more important to him than footy right now. I don't know if Ross is a particularly competitive type. He seems like a low motivation type who's happy to just play okay footy.

 

[Palantine]

Absolutely.

Just the same old words we hear year in year out.
These players take money on false pretences.
My direct debit came out today. First time I have resented it.
I can't believe some people are OK with what happened on the weekend.

Definitely not ok. It’s a stain in my undies I won’t be washing any time soon.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[gringo2011]

This loss has hung around like a bad smell.

When it's still stinging on Wednesday night you know it was a shocker.

It's the what if factor. We would have been setting up for a huge chance at finals. This was like when we all dreamed of a marquee game, got one then just let it slip away like it meant nothing to us. It was so pathetically inept on the big stage with all eyes on us.

This time we had all the media loving us again and were starting to look like everything was different. We made it seem like the dream was coming true for a quarter then they just lay down and shat the bed. Not just a little bit either, I have spoken to Saints fans who's only way to process how awful it was, was to say we must have been throwing the game for money because you couldn't accidentally shit yourself so badly.

It was at the fork in the road game where we chose to go the winners route or the losers route. It's fair to say the well worn road won out.

 

[gringo2011]

Glad you know that much about them. Strange that you do.

It's obviously a perception from afar. They seem like they give her ****s. Both on good money both poor on effort.