Autopsy Round 7, 2023 : Positives and Negatives v Carlton

[Cornelius Roy]

Surely this is a basic timing thing that could be cleaned up in one training session. Has been annoying the $&@& out of me since we drafted him.


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Rucking is not the easiest thing in the world. If you’re dominating someone you can jump over, then yeah you just jump and focus where you’re tapping like Nic does.

When you’re chopping out more you’re trying to time your jump so you get a ride, whilst also not copping a knee to the bollocks or getting a corkie and then also trying to effect a tap to advantage.

So no, not the simplest thing in the world, we’ve just been spoiled with ruckmen prior to Bailey who have made it look easy for many years.

 

[Cornelius Roy]

Biggest negative for me was just watching us lose 1v1s over and over again. Any time the ball comes under any pressure we just don’t come out with it there’s just a huge amount of players with absolutely no AFL future in this team.

Charlie would be an absolute nightmare to matchup on but I just cant imagine woosha thinking, this guy has kicked 4 on me, I’ll now start playing 10-15m off him and close the distance on any contest. Why do our defenders not go to the man, get body contact on your player, scrag, fight anything. Watching rotham play 10m off Charlie then feigning frustrating when Charlie took an uncontested mark by moving forward toward an uncontested mark from a kick was absolutely baffling. I don’t think ive ever seen a key defender so allergic to contested football as rotham be persisted with in that role for so long.

 

[Goroyals22]

Biggest negative for me was just watching us lose 1v1s over and over again. Any time the ball comes under any pressure we just don’t come out with it there’s just a huge amount of players with absolutely no AFL future in this team.

Charlie would be an absolute nightmare to matchup on but I just cant imagine woosha thinking, this guy has kicked 4 on me, I’ll now start playing 10-15m off him and close the distance on any contest. Why do our defenders not go to the man, get body contact on your player, scrag, fight anything. Watching rotham play 10m off Charlie then feigning frustrating when Charlie took an uncontested mark by moving forward toward an uncontested mark from a kick was absolutely baffling. I don’t think ive ever seen a key defender so allergic to contested football as rotham be persisted with in that role for so long.

Yeah but we so need a Rotham type player for such a role as a hopeless defender we had to sign him until the end of next year because someone may chase him desperately…


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[ziad]

Yeah but we so need a Rotham type player for such a role as a hopeless defender we had to sign him until the end of next year because someone may chase him desperately…


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not to avoid him being poached- but to have him to fill gaps while we improve. yesterday was a bridge too far for a C grade flanker. No surprises.

 

[Cornelius Roy]

Yeah but we so need a Rotham type player for such a role as a hopeless defender we had to sign him until the end of next year because someone may chase him desperately…


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I only just found this out through another comment on here today, I thought he was gone at the end of the year, so yeah, I’m pissed now.

 

[donpyke92]

Since he's contracted for next year, I would like to see Rotham tried on the wing currently occupied by Clark, when, if, possible re injuries to taller defenders.
Suspect he may offer more.

 

[Goroyals22]

Since he's contracted for next year, I would like to see Rotham tried on the wing currently occupied by Clark, when, if, possible re injuries to taller defenders.
Suspect he may offer more.

Oh good. Another Jackson Nelson, let’s keep him on the list and keep moving him around the field trying to find a spot where he is semi competent until we realise he is a just no good at any spot and delist him.

 

[DanWCE]

neg - I was stuck for two hours in the car park waiting to get out the v8 Supercars, and couldn’t watch the game.


Pos - I was stuck for two hours in the car park waiting to get out the v8 Supercars, and couldn’t watch the game.

That carpark is a sandy dust pit. DirtySandman now?

 

[Magnum27]

The only negative for me is even with our limited player availability the coaches are still going with the old guard, Rotham has been average is whole career, so why was Bazzo not starting instead of him, and why persist with Gaff in the middle and Culley as a forward, even the dropping of Trew is nuts, play him and see what he can offer instead of Foley.

What he we got to lose with Bazzo, Trew and Cully getting extended minutes in their preferred positions, what are we worried at losing by 120pts.

If we are going to play Rotham why not use him as the back up ruckman, he has done okay with that when he has played there, it would leave Waterman up forward, and mean Oscar may not get double teamed.

 

[RedWeddingGuest]

Therein lies the problem with being a successful team in the past. Our recruiting has been middle to lower picks for that long that we are now experiencing
the results.
Maybe we should have been more brutal with moving players on earlier but it is not the WC way.

This game is ALL about the draft and astute trading. Exactly the same as the NFL and the NBA. If you’re not elite at managing the draft and trading players, you’ll never succeed. It’s nothing to do where we finish on the ladder, and pinning our hopes on a #1 draft pick is naive (we might get a Jack Watts or Jonathan Patton, or similar). SPS is a top 10 draft pick. Some clubs (think Geelong and Port, for example) are masters at this sort of stuff. We seem to be learning, but we have a long way to go. As for it not being our way to trade out aging players, well… we better make it our way. Others here have mentioned the imminent admission of a Tassie team. That’s going to make things even harder for the next few years, but it might also be an opportunity to unload some dead wood and do some serious horse trading. And before someone asks me: “Well, who would YOU have traded etc”, I’ll just say I’m a rank amateur at picking players with potential – but AFL clubs aren’t amateurs in this regard, and some of them seem to consistently pick winners. But if ANYTHING is “not our way”, we’re making ourselves vulnerable and guaranteeing that we’re going to get bullied at the trade table and in the draft for a long time. As I said, we’re learning – but we’ve got to get better at this side of things quicker!

 

[ArdentEagle]

Since he's contracted for next year, I would like to see Rotham tried on the wing currently occupied by Clark, when, if, possible re injuries to taller defenders.
Suspect he may offer more.

100% Yes yes yes - We seem to be obsessed with playing players in positions of weakness and not utilising their strengths. I just don't get it.

 

[VicBased]

This game is ALL about the draft and astute trading. Exactly the same as the NFL and the NBA. If you’re not elite at managing the draft and trading players, you’ll never succeed. It’s nothing to do where we finish on the ladder, and pinning our hopes on a #1 draft pick is naive (we might get a Jack Watts or Jonathan Patton, or similar). SPS is a top 10 draft pick. Some clubs (think Geelong and Port, for example) are masters at this sort of stuff. We seem to be learning, but we have a long way to go. As for it not being our way to trade out aging players, well… we better make it our way. Others here have mentioned the imminent admission of a Tassie team. That’s going to make things even harder for the next few years, but it might also be an opportunity to unload some dead wood and do some serious horse trading. And before someone asks me: “Well, who would YOU have traded etc”, I’ll just say I’m a rank amateur at picking players with potential – but AFL clubs aren’t amateurs in this regard, and some of them seem to consistently pick winners. But if ANYTHING is “not our way”, we’re making ourselves vulnerable and guaranteeing that we’re going to get bullied at the trade table and in the draft for a long time. As I said, we’re learning – but we’ve got to get better at this side of things quicker!

All well said but I think you are forgetting that we have won four GFs and are not to bad at footballing.
We have recruited well in the past to win said GFs and we will win more in the future.
We will be fine.

 

[wce4premiership]

I didn't see the entire game, but from what I saw there were some good signs.

All of our players had boots on for example, that's a win. Probably would have suffered more injuries if they forgot their boots.

 

[bzparkes]

This game is ALL about the draft and astute trading. Exactly the same as the NFL and the NBA. If you’re not elite at managing the draft and trading players, you’ll never succeed. It’s nothing to do where we finish on the ladder, and pinning our hopes on a #1 draft pick is naive (we might get a Jack Watts or Jonathan Patton, or similar). SPS is a top 10 draft pick. Some clubs (think Geelong and Port, for example) are masters at this sort of stuff. We seem to be learning, but we have a long way to go. As for it not being our way to trade out aging players, well… we better make it our way. Others here have mentioned the imminent admission of a Tassie team. That’s going to make things even harder for the next few years, but it might also be an opportunity to unload some dead wood and do some serious horse trading. And before someone asks me: “Well, who would YOU have traded etc”, I’ll just say I’m a rank amateur at picking players with potential – but AFL clubs aren’t amateurs in this regard, and some of them seem to consistently pick winners. But if ANYTHING is “not our way”, we’re making ourselves vulnerable and guaranteeing that we’re going to get bullied at the trade table and in the draft for a long time. As I said, we’re learning – but we’ve got to get better at this side of things quicker!

Think you might be experiencing a bit of PTST from the Kelly trade/Brander draft.

Remember, we did very well in 2017(?) with the pick swap with GC, then there's been some fairly astute trading over the years to bring in players of need, such as Stenglein, Yeo & Chick, Jetta & Redden. Hunt appears to be a good pickup; not only is he playing well, he very much suits the new game style and looks to have been a player identified to help transition the game plan.

With drafting, we appear to have done well the past couple of seasons with the acquisitions of players, especially later in the draft, such as Noah Long, Rhett Bazzo & Brady Hough, then there's Culley/Ginbey and the extra pick last year has netted us Hewett also.

I don't think our trading & drafting has been nearly as bad as people have made out, rather it's been a product of the team being up and about for a long time.

It's now our turn to be on the bottom and so far, things aren't looking to bad for the future.

 

[VicBased]

Think you might be experiencing a bit of PTST from the Kelly trade/Brander draft.

Remember, we did very well in 2017(?) with the pick swap with GC, then there's been some fairly astute trading over the years to bring in players of need, such as Stenglein, Yeo & Chick, Jetta & Redden. Hunt appears to be a good pickup; not only is he playing well, he very much suits the new game style and looks to have been a player identified to help transition the game plan.

With drafting, we appear to have done well the past couple of seasons with the acquisitions of players, especially later in the draft, such as Noah Long, Rhett Bazzo & Brady Hough, then there's Culley/Ginbey and the extra pick last year has netted us Hewett also.

I don't think our trading & drafting has been nearly as bad as people have made out, rather it's been a product of the team being up and about for a long time.

It's now our turn to be on the bottom and so far, things aren't looking to bad for the future.

Stop bringing any sanity to this conversation please. Insane people don't understand it .

 

[Dark Sharks]

Hey gang

How we all feeling today?

 

[Cuzz09]

Hey gang

How we all feeling today?

sleepy

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[bombard]

Hey gang

How we all feeling today?

Googling the Jonestown Massacre has been more uplifting than this thread.

 

[ArdentEagle]

Hey gang

How we all feeling today?

Tired, Tipsy and Disillusioned.

 

[RedWeddingGuest]

Think you might be experiencing a bit of PTST from the Kelly trade/Brander draft.

Remember, we did very well in 2017(?) with the pick swap with GC, then there's been some fairly astute trading over the years to bring in players of need, such as Stenglein, Yeo & Chick, Jetta & Redden. Hunt appears to be a good pickup; not only is he playing well, he very much suits the new game style and looks to have been a player identified to help transition the game plan.

With drafting, we appear to have done well the past couple of seasons with the acquisitions of players, especially later in the draft, such as Noah Long, Rhett Bazzo & Brady Hough, then there's Culley/Ginbey and the extra pick last year has netted us Hewett also.

I don't think our trading & drafting has been nearly as bad as people have made out, rather it's been a product of the team being up and about for a long time.

It's now our turn to be on the bottom and so far, things aren't looking to bad for the future.

I hear you, and I accept there are swings and roundabouts in this sport, but otherwise I don’t agree. Nobody knows how Long, Bazzo, Ginbey or Culley will turn out. It’s too early to tell. We all hope they’ll be guns – of course we do. As I said, we are getting better at the drafting/trading gig. I don’t think Geelong have been up and about any less than we have, but look at the team they have built… We have had some reasonable pickups, but no Dangerfields or Jeremy Camerons, or even Gary Rohans or Isaac Smiths, for a while. My point is that clubs that have had consistent high draft picks have not always progressed, and clubs that perennially do well don’t always have good draft picks: there is an art to managing the draft and effective trading.

 

[Cuzz09]

Gonna crack and bottle of red and enjoy this roast soon.

Life.Goes.On



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[bzparkes]

I hear you, and I accept there are swings and roundabouts in this sport, but otherwise I don’t agree. Nobody knows how Long, Bazzo, Ginbey or Culley will turn out. It’s too early to tell. We all hope they’ll be guns – of course we do. As I said, we are getting better at the drafting/trading gig. I don’t think Geelong have been up and about any less than we have, but look at the team they have built… We have had some reasonable pickups, but no Dangerfields or Jeremy Camerons, or even Gary Rohans or Isaac Smiths, for a while. My point is that clubs that have had consistent high draft picks have not always progressed, and clubs that perennially do well don’t always have good draft picks: there is an art to managing the draft and effective trading.

Geelong have an advantage over other clubs in that they are able to attract Victorian talent back to their club and reportedly offer means to 'look after them' outside the salary cap. They also aren't that far from Melbourne, so players can head up there for a weekend if they wish.

WCE have never been a destination club, nor have they attempted to be. Historically, they've built through the draft and have targeted specific players to finalise the list. The good part of this is that they've had very good player retention from interstate, which is a great sign that interstate players feel at home at the club.

The flip side of this is Fremantle. They desperately want to be a destination club and, to their credit, have attracted a lot of players recently. A lot of those players have also left after their initial contract, which would be a very bad look for a player considering going there, in my opinion. They've also stuffed their list multiple times doing this and are a perfect example of what not to do.

 

[Grahame]

I hear you, and I accept there are swings and roundabouts in this sport, but otherwise I don’t agree. Nobody knows how Long, Bazzo, Ginbey or Culley will turn out. It’s too early to tell. We all hope they’ll be guns – of course we do. As I said, we are getting better at the drafting/trading gig. I don’t think Geelong have been up and about any less than we have, but look at the team they have built… We have had some reasonable pickups, but no Dangerfields or Jeremy Camerons, or even Gary Rohans or Isaac Smiths, for a while. My point is that clubs that have had consistent high draft picks have not always progressed, and clubs that perennially do well don’t always have good draft picks: there is an art to managing the draft and effective trading.

Don’t underestimate the travel factor. It really works against the WA clubs.

 

[RedWeddingGuest]

All well said but I think you are forgetting that we have won four GFs and are not to bad at footballing.
We have recruited well in the past to win said GFs and we will win more in the future.
We will be fine.

Qué? Well okay then. Nuthin to worry about. No need to change a thing.

What’s this “footballing” business, by the way? You mean what we was doing at Optus yesterday?

Don’t be that guy…

 

[swingdog]

Good percentage booster for the number one pick.