Autopsy Round 7, 2024 : Hawks get pecked by Swans

[A Diakos]

Oh really, Lewis returned in 2023 and we started winning. Blanck is important for structure and releases our important player in Sicily.

Blank has been covered by frost

As for Lewis he’s never on the park every single year

 

[hawkman]

His press conference just makes me think we are going to get the same thing next week.

Dogs ball use isn't good enough to cut us open like Sydney's did

 

[bindas12]

Dogs ball use isn't good enough to cut us open like Sydney's did

Have you seen how fast dogs play at marvel?

 

[Hawkspot]

Gunston is only going to be a one game at a time call up from here I reckon, he couldn’t keep up with the game or even be a decent decoy.

Missed some parts, but it was hard to see 14 of our players doing there bit and being let down repeatedly by some. We just don’t have the quality needed to compete with the best yet, and they are currently the benchmark.

Ramma is not ready, still not clear where he fits as a player but he’s young so hopefully finds a role.

Going to be a hard year.

 

[Dewyyyyy]

Had some more time to process the game and what I saw today.
Effort was outstanding but a few things I'm going to keep taking into account regardless of what some on here say:

- the influence umpiring has on young players is immense, you can say it shouldn't, but gave three 12 point turn arounds from frees in the first half is exceptionally difficult to deal with for players who feel that there should be more reward for effort.

- our forward line mix is entirely different from last year. We have a new spearhead who isn't a natural spearhead, we have a new small brigade and we have next to no leadership in that space. Give us some continuity, give us Lewis and Wingard and suddenly we have two senior voices directing traffic.

- our tackling woes are dire, but if I step back and think about it, it's boys against men most weeks. Our two senior bulls in Worps and Nash hit harder and stick more tackles, whilst our youth js pushed aside. Once our boys have grown into men I think our tackle count will go up significantly

- momentum is a bitch. Both in game and week to week. I'm confident we will have another late spree of wins this season, but I think that lage spree will start earlier than last year.


I'm angry at our result, but I can see the method to the madness, and I can see improvement.
We aren't the only team to get pantsed by Sydney this year and we won't be the last.
Our focus needs to be on improving our mix for next week, and improving our young players understanding of in game momentum and positioning.

Well spoken

 

[hawkheart]

Had some more time to process the game and what I saw today.
Effort was outstanding but a few things I'm going to keep taking into account regardless of what some on here say:

- the influence umpiring has on young players is immense, you can say it shouldn't, but gave three 12 point turn arounds from frees in the first half is exceptionally difficult to deal with for players who feel that there should be more reward for effort.

- our forward line mix is entirely different from last year. We have a new spearhead who isn't a natural spearhead, we have a new small brigade and we have next to no leadership in that space. Give us some continuity, give us Lewis and Wingard and suddenly we have two senior voices directing traffic.

- our tackling woes are dire, but if I step back and think about it, it's boys against men most weeks. Our two senior bulls in Worps and Nash hit harder and stick more tackles, whilst our youth js pushed aside. Once our boys have grown into men I think our tackle count will go up significantly

- momentum is a bitch. Both in game and week to week. I'm confident we will have another late spree of wins this season, but I think that lage spree will start earlier than last year.


I'm angry at our result, but I can see the method to the madness, and I can see improvement.
We aren't the only team to get pantsed by Sydney this year and we won't be the last.
Our focus needs to be on improving our mix for next week, and improving our young players understanding of in game momentum and positioning.

Always enjoy reading your posts mate. Intelligent and considered.

 

[CHUBBSS]

Thought the Franklin thing was weird. Didn’t seem authentic. Assume the club threw him some coin to do it as not really his thing.

He was tearing up, his just shy in front of the camera but he loved it and you can tell he still loves the hawks

 

[toomanysquibs]

The swans run in waves from D50 and back half, they know where their teammates are going to be, and they're slick getting the ball to each other.

Around clearances they also know where they want to be, to create outlets to get the ball moving forward.

They have a predictable, well drilled system to match their ball winning ability - it allows them to transition the ball quickly.

We're more like a group of kids at the park, just doing whatever we can to get it forward, hoping that an individual piece of brilliance will create something.

Pretty sure this is not what our coach wants.

We had our moments. We worked hard for much of the first half. They just worked harder to create options, and used the ball so much better it's not funny. They are an awesome team right now.

If our team is playing on that same page, things get easier. It's not end of days stuff.

But we do need a leading forward inside 50 and a marking ruck or leading CHF to mark or create contests for the kick down the line or coming out of D50.

Currently there's no get out of jail kick to be had for our backs or mids. They're getting marked by the opposition.

Fix that, and things change a lot.

If Calsher comes in, he's coming in for the future and not what he's going to do right away. So we need Lewis back in and on his bike. One of our rucks also needs to step up and be a target around the ground. Ramsden is the most likely on that front. He's also going to take time though.

As bad as this was, I felt the effort was there for at least the first half.

The polish is not there, because the options aren't there. So things just aren't as predictable for the Hawks player with ball in hand.

 

[FB19]

That was an incredibly hard watch. Today made it abundantly clear we are the second worst team in the comp. I actually thought early on we were quite competitive and had some things go against us. Sydney had the rub today no question but we lost by 76.
I want us to rebuild but do it properly and I have patience but the truth is our list is miles off right now Dylan Moore

13

Dylan Moore

Age

24

Ht

177cm

Wt

77kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.9

3star

K

5.1

2star

HB

6.7

4star

M

4.4

4star

T

2.9

4star

G

0.3

3star

No current season stats available

D

12.2

3star

K

6.0

3star

HB

6.2

4star

M

5.4

5star

T

2.8

5star

G

0.4

3star

is the closest thing we have to an elite player. Day will be that if he stays on the park, Mackenzie had his best game today and scrimshaw was solid. We massively overate a lot of our list and our game plan isn’t working.
I’m a broken record but the club strategy to hit the draft hard hasnt worked because it was (a) too short a time period and (b) didn’t actually hit the draft hard. 1 extra top 30 pick and 2 second round to end of first round upgrades doesn’t meet the standard. GWS have had more top 30 picks in the same time period and are contending and whilst we get why how do we make ground when that is the reality. We need at least 3 more drafts where we take an extra first round pick on top of our natural hand. We also need to move on from our captain he’s not a leader. Moore the obvious choice.

 

[jerry_atrick]

First, I humbly and unreservedly apologise for and retract my statement about Scrimshaw after the Gold Coast defeat. He showed today he is every bit an AFL standard player, despite one bad kick. My only defence was that I had my mate, Wolfie Blass over, and extended time with him does tend to affect my judgement. Evey player is "allowed" 1 mistaken kick.

Much has already been said about the performance today (it is still Sunday where I live - been a long day!) I would only add that there are some on our list that, despite physcial athleticism, seem not to quite have the footy smarts needed and no drilling or training will bring it on.

Scrimshaw, Meek, Frenchie, Moore, and one or two others could hold their heads up. Others not so, but with the sort of performances we are putting in, I am worried the "green shoots" syndrome, in which, like the Blues under Brendon Bolton, are talking ourselves into it being better than it is.

The Sam Mitchell coaching honeymoon period is over for me.

Yes, I get it. I have been thinking is this going to end like the reigns of messrs Schwab and Knights? I think there are differences this time, and we should be careful not to throw out the baby with the bath water. He may well just need some time to grow, but if the assistant and specialist coaches aren't performing, he should be holding them to account. Longmire lets his team know when they don't make it.. and so did Clarko in his time with us. Sammy needs to not single out a player, but get livid with the whole team - maybe 1/4 time was too early given the score, but it was clear by then this was going to be a tough day at the office.

Can't help but think the vitriol thrown at Chol wouldn't be as bad if he was white

Jeez, I hope as a society we are well past the colour of ones skin.

For me, it wasn't all doom and gloom... but after 6 - 8 years of a rebuild, questions have to be asked.

 

[HedgeFund]

One thing hasn’t changed in 150 years of football. There is only one football !!!!!!
You don’t need 4 players within 2 metres of the ball handling to each other while your opposition peel off to take away your clearance options. Almost every screen shot had more Hawks than Swans in shot. You can’t tell me the oppo coaches haven’t worked it out by now. Let the Hawks get the ball close in. Opposition doesn’t hunt the ball, it hunts the receiver.

It is really this simple.

1. We all hunt the pill too much

2. So yep - we win contested footy and ground ball (yay)

3. Then our next options are too close to us

4. which invites the pressure; so

5. eventually we turn it over by hand or foot; and

6. We are caught out of position and unable to defend properly

 

[Thrashor]

It is really this simple.

1. We all hunt the pill too much

2. So yep - we win contested footy and ground ball (yay)

3. Then our next options are too close to us

4. which invites the pressure; so

5. eventually we turn it over by hand or foot; and

6. We are caught out of position and unable to defend properly

100% agree on point 1, I remember this being Melbourne's big issue before they sorted it out.

 

[Cyril says]

He was tearing up, his just shy in front of the camera but he loved it and you can tell he still loves the hawks

Didn’t come to all the way to the cheer squad let alone the members sitting in the Shane Warne stand - made it around a small part of the ground.

We were ready to stand and applaud his career.

I can buy that he’s shy and appreciate every one of the 580 goals he kicked for us and the 2 premierships we won with him.

 

[TylerDurden]

 

[TheFourPillars]

This game was all about execution. We were tracking really poorly for the majority of the game. Our skills decision making and team work the worst i seen and as the game went on our confidence dropped especially forward of the ball where everyone seemed to be on the back foot.

Onwards and upwards there is always next week

 

[HedgeFund]

Hawthorn actually beat Sydney in contested possessions (+18) and clearances (+5) but were overawed by John Longmire’s side playing with more numbers around the contest in a strategic “challenge” to rest of the competition.

King showed another passage that Sydney won and that left “six redundant Hawks” to create an “18 v 12”.

“The Swans want to play a different game. This is why their numbers in contest always look poor – they’re happy to ring the contest and live on the outside,” King highlighted.

“When they win the ball, look at the space they’re in immediately. This is the challenge the John Longmire plan is putting to the competition.

“This is why their kickers are so damaging, they leave you in redundant positions. So the strategy and the planning makes a lot of the statistical data irrelevant.”

 

[matey]

It was tough as a supporter yesterday and after such losses some on here make it even more frustrating from hammering individual players, coaches etc. That’s not going to solve any problems.

Strong believer that the score yesterday is not a reflection of the talent between the two clubs …… it’s more the connection and understanding between teammates and the life cycle of where the clubs are at. Watching the Swans yesterday when they had the ball the carrier rarely spent time looking left or right to find an option. They went the first option all the time whether hitting up someone 15/40 metres away on any angle giving us little time to defend. We were the opposite …….. spending too much time looking for an option allowing the Swans to setup defensively. Then the ball turns over and the above sequence of events happened again and again. And this was more evident when we had the ball just outside 50 trying to move it into the forwardline …….. TOO LATE!!!!! Chol/Ginni/Dimma/Moore well covered and little space to do or create anything.

Still believe our list has a lot of the pieces needed we just need more time for the team (that includes a number kids being introduced into the toughest environment …… the AFL) to play more games together. Next week I would like to see players moving the ball quicker choosing the first option. It may not be the best option but the next one after could be!

 

[peetoo]

Had some more time to process the game and what I saw today.
Effort was outstanding but a few things I'm going to keep taking into account regardless of what some on here say:

- the influence umpiring has on young players is immense, you can say it shouldn't, but gave three 12 point turn arounds from frees in the first half is exceptionally difficult to deal with for players who feel that there should be more reward for effort.

- our forward line mix is entirely different from last year. We have a new spearhead who isn't a natural spearhead, we have a new small brigade and we have next to no leadership in that space. Give us some continuity, give us Lewis and Wingard and suddenly we have two senior voices directing traffic.

- our tackling woes are dire, but if I step back and think about it, it's boys against men most weeks. Our two senior bulls in Worps and Nash hit harder and stick more tackles, whilst our youth js pushed aside. Once our boys have grown into men I think our tackle count will go up significantly

- momentum is a bitch. Both in game and week to week. I'm confident we will have another late spree of wins this season, but I think that lage spree will start earlier than last year.


I'm angry at our result, but I can see the method to the madness, and I can see improvement.
We aren't the only team to get pantsed by Sydney this year and we won't be the last.
Our focus needs to be on improving our mix for next week, and improving our young players understanding of in game momentum and positioning.

5 from frees dodgy imo all first half no complaints second half

Can anyone tell me why a perfectly good goal was disallowed? Hardwick I think

 

[peetoo]

Hawthorn actually beat Sydney in contested possessions (+18) and clearances (+5) but were overawed by John Longmire’s side playing with more numbers around the contest in a strategic “challenge” to rest of the competition.

King showed another passage that Sydney won and that left “six redundant Hawks” to create an “18 v 12”.

“The Swans want to play a different game. This is why their numbers in contest always look poor – they’re happy to ring the contest and live on the outside,” King highlighted.

“When they win the ball, look at the space they’re in immediately. This is the challenge the John Longmire plan is putting to the competition.

“This is why their kickers are so damaging, they leave you in redundant positions. So the strategy and the planning makes a lot of the statistical data irrelevant.”

So where is the biggest blight in the game? One team operates the flood and burst game better than the other? Does king actually watch 2024 football?

 

[threesixpio]

Box Hill top of the VFL ladder +

Hawthorn last night

=

 

[Madhawknut]

I'm still trying to figure out what our game plan is? Do we even have a game plan?
why do we persist with kicking the ball long from kick ins when it continuously results in turnovers and goals.

 

[HedgeFund]

There’s a fair argument to say this one was lost during the week in planning for the opposition, and that falls to David McKay and Sam Mitchell.

Richmond beat them despite being undermanned and West Coast led them at half time before losing by 26 (NB: 150 points better than last year).

Simpson and Yze knew they didn’t have the cattle to go head-to-head. So they planned to make it hard for Sydney to get the game on their terms - and it worked.

We appear not to have planned properly IMHO. The effort was there, but the planning was not.

That’s a problem.

However it should be able to be addressed.

 

[Mercy Seat]

Hawthorn actually beat Sydney in contested possessions (+18) and clearances (+5) but were overawed by John Longmire’s side playing with more numbers around the contest in a strategic “challenge” to rest of the competition.

King showed another passage that Sydney won and that left “six redundant Hawks” to create an “18 v 12”.

“The Swans want to play a different game. This is why their numbers in contest always look poor – they’re happy to ring the contest and live on the outside,” King highlighted.

“When they win the ball, look at the space they’re in immediately. This is the challenge the John Longmire plan is putting to the competition.

“This is why their kickers are so damaging, they leave you in redundant positions. So the strategy and the planning makes a lot of the statistical data irrelevant.”

Kingy is correct here. Sydney don’t rely on contested footy to win, and from a tactical standpoint, we fell into the trap all day of having too many players chasing the ball then throwing it onto their boot without enough composure. Was easy pickings for Sydney.

 

[Madhawknut]

Wtf was that spray to Scimmers?

Mitchell holding him to a much higher standard than the rest of the team.

The only player that should be held to high standard is Sicily, he has been atrocious.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

I'm still trying to figure out what our game plan is? Do we even have a game plan?
why do we persist with kicking the ball long from kick ins when it continuously results in turnovers and goals.

Honestly, the “I can’t identify the gameplan, therefore I don’t know if we have one” are the worst takes on here.