Autopsy Round 7, 2024 : Hawks get pecked by Swans

[Ned Ryerson]

Since 2017 almost every game now as soon as the opposition saunter out of our forward 50 teams just seem to transition up the ground at will. Thankfully over those years we have somtimes had decent defensive units that could stem the bleeding at times. I get one period there was a ill-conceived top-up and the other is a rebuild - but I am just getting so tired of watching opposition teams just move the ball against us with absolute ease. The amount of times it looks like teams playing us have a handful of extra players is so bloody frustrating.

 

[Yardie]

Couple of observations after a pretty bad loss:

Can anyone explain why Ramsden was the sub in the first half when Meek was on the bench, Mitchell expected Chol to ruck, return to the forward line and then front up for the next ball-up?
Leaving one player over 6ft 2 in attack - bonkers.
He was cooked in 2 minutes.

FIFY

 

[triple treat]

Gunston is only going to be a one game at a time call up from here I reckon, he couldn’t keep up with the game or even be a decent decoy.

Missed some parts, but it was hard to see 14 of our players doing there bit and being let down repeatedly by some. We just don’t have the quality needed to compete with the best yet, and they are currently the benchmark.

Ramma is not ready, still not clear where he fits as a player but he’s young so hopefully finds a role.

Going to be a hard year.

Wow, I must of had one to many beers cause I thought Gunston was our best forward! Still a very smart footballer and gets himself into the right spots. If he’d kicked straight would have had 3 or 4.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

and we will undoubtedly look to off-load players who have currency. (Sicily, Scrimshaw, Lewis)

How about we don't follow the Norf firesale method of list development?

 

[HoldingThe Ball]

How about we don't follow the Norf firesale method of list development?

It sounds terrible, but we have so many holes in the list in every area, that we may well need to bottom out even further before Tasmania comes in.

If it's even an option being discussed at Waverley, it has to happen this year so we get 2 'uncompromised' (har har) drafts.

 

[JZedd]

Sub-par AFL level footy, not acceptable.
Wasn't expecting a win but FMD.

Like i said in the gameday thread bring in bloody Ethan Phillips couldn't make things worse.

Surely you're not into Necrophilia

 

[Ned Ryerson]

It sounds terrible, but we have so many holes in the list in every area, that we may well need to bottom out even further before Tasmania comes in.

If it's even an option being discussed at Waverley, it has to happen this year so we get 2 'uncompromised' (har har) drafts.

It sounds terrible because it is terrible. Norf are still languishing 4 years on from trying it and they don't remotely look like they are going to springboard up the ladder. If we tried the same tactic we would still be trying to rebuild via the draft when Tassie come into the comp which would be a disaster.

 

[JZedd]

On a more serious note... I'm probably wrong but I think young players shouldn't be moved around in order become versatile. There's no continuity.
Take Weddle as an example.

It's tough enough for senior players to learn a new role but to ask youngsters to learn multiple roles is asking too much.

Am aware of the need to find multiple roles. But not so soon. Jack of all trades but masters in none.


Like I said I'm probably wrong but hey it's footy forum.

 

[TassieGrown]

The sun has come up but the bitter taste from that performance yesterday will linger for a few more days yet.

My thoughts after a good sleep, most of this has already been mentioned but i need to vent

• 1st time ever i have not sat through a full game, switched off at 3qtr time. I am not happy with myself but for the sake of my marriage and my TV i just had to.
• A forward line of Dunstall, Locket & Dermie would struggle with the delivery we are offering to our forwards.
• Where has the quick decisive ball movement gone from the 2nd half of 2023?
• Leadership is virtually non existent, some of our so called leaders are in shocking form and unfortunately the result of that is they play for themselves.
• Sydney just done what they wanted when they wanted, waltzed from D50 to F50 with ease.
• We are clearly the 2nd worst team in the comp.
• the majority of our midfielders are poorly skilled, Frenchie & Duke aside.
• Only ones that put in for the 3qtrs i watched was Meek, Frenchie, Duke, Scrimma, Frost and Hardwick.
• Great to see Day back
• We lack class all over the ground, we are in desperate need of A grade talent with leadership abilities.
• It's hard to watch the cats & swans continue re-invent themselves & play finals while we lock ourselves into bottom 4 spots year on year.
• We deserve 4pm time slots on a Sunday we are a hard watch.

my ramblings

Go Hawks

 

[Yardie]

Wow, I must of had one to many beers cause I thought Gunston was our best forward! Still a very smart footballer and gets himself into the right spots. If he’d kicked straight would have had 3 or 4.

He is done. He can't jump and has lost a yard of pace. Not sure having a one disposal for half a game is what we want.

 

[smish]

Where is our next win coming from? West Coast at the G? Maybe? We are lucky North are generationally bad.

Ramsden as sub was a more baffling choice than Finn.
Very little on-field leadership.
Only positives were Moore and Mackenzie developing nicely. Half the time he receives the ball he ends up having to go backwards because there's just nothing offering in front of him. At least he doesn't want to waste it.

We currently have picks 2 & 29 which will probably blow out to 4/5 and 40+. Where are we getting more picks?? Before anyone gets on their high horse, yes we need more picks. We are in the middle of a rebuild FFS.

Heavily frontload contracts to get FA role players in, we just don't have the cattle/enough senior bodies preventing us from getting smacked.

Has there even been a mid-year captaincy swap? Now might be the time to consider it.

 

[2008wasoverDEW!]

Deep breath... It sucks, but don't let it get you down. We're all in the same boat with our passion and pride.

 

[Tanami]

Club better be careful with Weddle.
Once out of contract GWS and Sydney will throw huge dollars to lure him.
Let him settle in a position and make it his own !
otherwise he could get fed up and leave !

Sicily looks miserable.

How on earth does he inspire team mates ?

Club needs to make a change at end of year.

Players are running around with no passion for the contest.

This is a huge worry.

The club needs a review at seasons end.

Think some poaching of senior Assistants from top 4 clubs need to happen at seasons end.

We are not improving.

Shows me the messaging isn't working.

Hard decisions need to be made if SM is to show his worth.

 

[Lickmesocks]

It sounds terrible because it is terrible. Norf are still languishing 4 years on from trying it and they don't remotely look like they are going to springboard up the ladder. If we tried the same tactic we would still be trying to rebuild via the draft when Tassie come into the comp which would be a disaster.

Is our list all that better than Norf when you take a step back and consider. We have won 1 game from 7 vs theirs 0-7.

We don’t have a tall forward as good as Larkey.

Our backline is more mature with Sicily, Frost Scrimmers and Amon holding it together for us who have all been in the system for a long time. DGB Blanck and Phillips are our next group in line for a spot in that back 6.

Sheezel, Mckercher, LDU looks to be a very promising midfield group for the future.

We have Day and Newc…. who would be walk up starts for the next 5-7 years.

Does Josh Ward come on like we hope and add to Newc and Day?

The difference between both lists might not be as great as everyone thinks.


our older guys might be the only real difference right at the minute and that can very quickly change as we know.

Sicily Scrimshaw Worpel Frost Nash Amon etc etc etc .

 

[triple treat]

He is done. He can't jump and has lost a yard of pace. Not sure having a one disposal for half a game is what we want.

His game was never about jumping or speed.

 

[Harper_Hawk]

It sounds terrible because it is terrible. Norf are still languishing 4 years on from trying it and they don't remotely look like they are going to springboard up the ladder. If we tried the same tactic we would still be trying to rebuild via the draft when Tassie come into the comp which would be a disaster.

I agree. That’s a terrible idea. We HAVE the players. It will be a number of ingredients that aren’t fitting well. Fitness, motivation, confidence, player development, experience in the coaches box, and Experience on the field. Not enough of one and too much of another….the right mix can be on a knifes edge. We play small passages where it clicks and then it doesn’t for long periods of time. In the bigger picture, If it continues this way then the board should ask themselves was it the right decision to appoint an inexperienced senior coach to put diapers on players and send them into the real world and blend players together. Crucial year for our coaching staff to get things marginally right moving forward.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[Judd2Sewell]

Do we even have a game plan?

Is that a serious question?
Of course we do. Every club has very detailed game plans. But when a good side plays a poor side - the poor side can't deliver on the plan.

You should be able to work it out when we play sides that give us more room, or when you see smooth bits of play.
We had several plays yesterday that resulted in us having set shots from 40m out directly in front. That should also give a hint.

The real question is what are the players instructed or trained to do when other teams are piling on goals. That was an issue last season and is an issue again this season.

We can move the ball well, but we can't seem to clamp opponents when they have built up some momentum.

 

[Dipper Here]

Couple of observations after a pretty bad loss:

Can anyone explain why in the first half when Meek was on the bench, Mitchell expected Chol to ruck, return to the forward line and then front up for the next ball-up?
Leaving one player over 6ft 2 in attack - bonkers.
He was cooked in 2 minutes.

Why on earth not leave Chol up forward for structure and get Nash to ruck - not body up Grundy but actually be an extra mid at the contest around the ball-up.
It's so obvious, yet our entire coaching team missed it.



Meek, McKenzie Scrimshaw and Frost have been very very good all year.

Others have had spells of reasonable form.

McDonald and Sicily have been utter dogshite.




There is something wrong at Waverley - Sam is a prickly character - ask anyone at WCE who was there a few years back. He's very acerbic and most certainly can put people on the naughty step for quite some time - he's also pretty bright, so I'm wondering about a few things.

Mitchell played with Breust Gunston Sicily and Hardwick plus Hale and Roughead - does he perhaps treat then differently than the new and younger guys?

Could this be why Sicily looks unhappy - on one hand SM treats him perhaps a little better off-field than other players he didn't play with, yet Sicily is the one the junior players are expected to go to if they have issues to be raised.

Perhaps he's in an uncomfortable spot?

Maybe that's why quite a few seemed to put the cue in the rack 3 mins into the second half?

One of Sams 'favoured' players - Gunston - stays on, whilst the reasonably well-performing Serong got hooked? A few maybe were pissed at this. I dunno.

One thing I do know is that everytime I watch SM doing a team lecture, he asks a question and 9 times out of 10 nobody answers. Then SM gives up and answers the question himself.

If it's tactics and game planing then SM has to be 1000% certain the message has gone in:


View attachment 1974249

If SM isn't getting his plans across then no wonder we look a hot mess most of the time.

Of course even worse is if he is and the players aren't skilled enough to do it.

Even worse still, is they don't WANT to do it.

Point is - whatever the reason is, Hawthorn have regressed. If they turn up another couple of bad losses in the next 3 rounds, I can see there being a board meeting being called.

Not to sack Sam - he's good for this year - but maybe hire a tough experienced pro who will just listen to Sam's idea and give good honest thoughts without fear of consequences.

It's needed as Sam pretty much lost this game at selection.

He wouldn't do it, but Nathan Buckley would be perfect to sit in for 6 - 8 weeks for a review.

We aren't there yet, but we are very close.

Interesting observations.

Any signs of confidence eroded very quickly yesterday after a competitive start. That was most shocking to me. Many players look like they lacked confidence and a united purpose once Sydney started getting on top. There might be elements of truth in what you are saying about leadership.

I have asked this question before but did not receive an answer.

On selection matters, does Sam have the final say on who is picked? Is he ultimately responsible for selection?

Anyway, very tough day at the office.

 

[barbster]

it's because he's scared to even tackle for fear of being suspended it's a joke the afl is a joke

If that’s the case throw him into the forward line. We need to try something to get him out of his rut.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

We had the same amount of wins at round 8 of last year, just as an FYI, with a fitter list.

Looking for a positive I was happy to see an immediate impact of having Day back in the side even if it didn’t translate to scoreboard pressure.

Daring to use the old “we lacked polish” cliche, but a small increase in availability of 1 or 2 of Breust, Wingard, Wiz and Lewis and I have faith the wheel will turn with our forward entries.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Is our list all that better than Norf when you take a step back and consider. We have won 1 game from 7 vs theirs 0-7.

We don’t have a tall forward as good as Larkey.

Our backline is more mature with Sicily, Frost Scrimmers and Amon holding it together for us who have all been in the system for a long time. DGB Blanck and Phillips are our next group in line for a spot in that back 6.

Sheezel, Mckercher, LDU looks to be a very promising midfield group for the future.

We have Day and Newc…. who would be walk up starts for the next 5-7 years.

Does Josh Ward come on like we hope and add to Newc and Day?

The difference between both lists might not be as great as everyone thinks.


our older guys might be the only real difference right at the minute and that can very quickly change as we know.

Sicily Scrimshaw Worpel Frost Nash Amon etc etc etc .

Which is more to my point that going full bottom out now by trading our senior players with currency would just leave a developing list horribly exposed. Sicily, once he gets over whatever is going on with him, is one of the league's best rebounding defenders who can cover our lack of an elite KPD. Lewis, when fit, is capable of being as good as Larkey - we just have to hope he can get some continual fitness. Scrimmers is hitting his best form and about to enter his prime years. Trading him wouldn't yield all that much and would leave our backline exposed.

We will likely getting another top 5 pick both this year and next - every chance we can request a priority pick also. I think there is enough time to get more quality youth on the list prior to Tassie's entry without leaving the cupboard entirely bare and trading what quality players we have.

 

[Leather Poisoning]

The real question is what are the players instructed or trained to do when other teams are piling on goals. That was an issue last season and is an issue again this season.

We can move the ball well, but we can't seem to clamp opponents when they have built up some momentum.

The swans game was the first time we've seen a MASSIVE amount of consecutive goals (5+). It was a massive failing last year that we couldn't real back a team once they got rolling.

Against the Suns, despite that low low effort the most they got in a row against us was 3.

I mean we got spanked in both games so it's a minor consolation - but that backline is holding up so so much better this year.

 

[MadDawg]

He is done. He can't jump and has lost a yard of pace. Not sure having a one disposal for half a game is what we want.

Also, when he does manage to get a shot on goal, he is too cooked to put it through the big sticks - 2.7 for the year now.

I remember young Jack Gunston as an absolute dead-eye shot for goal.

 

[Leather Poisoning]

Also, when he does manage to get a shot on goal, he is too cooked to put it through the big sticks - 2.7 for the year now.

I remember young Jack Gunston as an absolute dead-eye shot for goal.

Would be very happy with Jack in the side if he:

• Provides leadership
• Provides a good 2nd or 3rd target
• Kicks straight to reward the team's effort

The poor goal kicking is so deflating.

 

[Geead]

Where is our next win coming from? West Coast at the G? Maybe?

We don't even get WCE at the G this year, only play them in Optus

I see us maybe snatching a win over Adelaide at the G in 4 weeks time