Autopsy Saints v Cats - AFL Rd 23, 2024 - Sat August 17th 7:30pm - (Marvel)

[MickG88]

This is such a lazy line. Debate the actual content. If people offer counter points it's a simple discussion. "Oh no I made you cry" just infers that it's you who doesn't want to have the discussion.

I'm having the conversation, I'm not attacking another teams coach. I have huge respect for Chris Scott, it's hard to keep you team in the top 8 for the last 15 years. I don't appreciate the tantrums that are being thrown because I pointed out that Lyon and Scott have similar gamestyles/plans. You hit the nail on the head in your last post, Geelong execute better than the Saints but that doesn't mean the styles aren't similar.

 

[FootyLad0]

How many list has Chris Scott turned over? Replenshised how many with young player who he had to teach the game plan? Chris Scott has been the luckiest coach in the AFL, inherited a talent laden list while having talent beg to come to Geelong (Dangerfield and Cameron). easy to have such high defensive and offensive stats when you do have to rely on kids.

We even have a graph to disprove everything you just said. Cats had about 11 guys taken outside the first round in 2022 Premiership side, i think 5 were rookie Draft players. It was close to if not the record for most.

There's more than 'luck" that goes into it.

 

[Mr Meow]

I'm having the conversation, I'm not attacking another teams coach. I have huge respect for Chris Scott, it's hard to keep you team in the top 8 for the last 15 years. I don't appreciate the tantrums that are being thrown because I pointed out that Lyon and Scott have similar gamestyles/plans. You hit the nail on the head in your last post, Geelong execute better than the Saints but that doesn't mean the styles aren't similar.

Yeah that's all fine, I'm happy to discuss, it just gets tiresome when things degrade to "salty! triggered! they're crying now!" so quickly.

I think there's only one Geelong supporter in here that is venomously anti-Lyon. Anyone else probably has the kind of views you'd expect from your average neutral from any club. I personally have more respect for Lyon as a coach than most and am not offended by the comparison or anything.

However, at this stage in the game do Geelong really have a much more talented list than St Kilda? We have a few very talented veterans, yet all but three have declined severely - the two big names (Dangerfield and Cameron) we still gave up a handful of first round picks for and hence have less talent in our 23-28 year old cohort than a lot of sides. Stewart was simply a dynamite drafting move.

I'd say Scott is more attacking than Lyon. The points for and points against rankings over time say as much. We've had some truly dreadful forward lines and strong defences in that time too. Thus it can't simply be explained away by always having better ball use and attacking weapons.

 

[MickG88]

Yeah that's all fine, I'm happy to discuss, it just gets tiresome when things degrade to "salty! triggered! they're crying now!" so quickly.

When three posters in a row are digusted by the notion of my opinion then it does appear as a whinge. Taking stats from 10 years ago to prove a point isn't necessary. People and thoughts change over time, I usually like to look at the current iteration of Lyon (last year and this year.)

I think there's only one Geelong supporter in here that is venomously anti-Lyon. Anyone else probably has the kind of views you'd expect from your average neutral from any club. I personally have more respect for Lyon as a coach than most and am not offended by the comparison or anything.

i wasnt talking about all your supporters, there are some bad apples in each club that rub people.the wrong way, me being one of those.

However, at this stage in the game do Geelong really have a much more talented list than St Kilda? We have a few very talented veterans, yet all but three have declined severely - the two big names (Dangerfield and Cameron) we still gave up a handful of first round picks for and hence have less talent in our 23-28 year old cohort than a lot of sides. Stewart was simply a dynamite drafting move.

Sam De Koning, Max Holmes, Oliver Henry, Tanner Bruhn, Ollie Dempsey.
That's a talent list to start build upon.

Ranking the young cores of all 18 AFL clubs in 2024

Which AFL teams have the best young cores in the league? We've ranked them from 1 to 18.

www.sen.com.au

I'd say Scott is more attacking than Lyon. The points for and points against rankings over time say as much. We've had some truly dreadful forward lines and strong defences in that time too. Thus it can't simply be explained away by always having better ball use and attacking weapons.

When you have Hawkins in a forwardline, you can't really say you have a terrible forwardline. Such an under rated player.

 

[Footy Smarts]

Oh no, I've hurt Cats supporters feelings by comparing Scott and Lyon. What am I going to do when Ross Lyon has stated in interviews that he admires Chris Scott and wants to play a gamestyle like Geelongs. Defensive when they need to and then switching to attacking, I would take that as a compliment but bitter Cats fans take it the wrong way.

You've confused "wants" and "does".

Lyon wants to coach like peak Chris Scott in the way I want to play golf like peak Tiger Woods. Unfortunately we're both about as capable of doing so.

 

[MickG88]

You've confused "wants" and "does".

Lyon wants to coach like peak Chris Scott in the way I want to play golf like peak Tiger Woods. Unfortunately we're both about as capable of doing so.

Agreed

 

[Mr_Bojangles]

We even have a graph to disprove everything you just said. Cats had about 11 guys taken outside the first round in 2022 Premiership side, i think 5 were rookie Draft players. It was close to if not the record for most.

There's more than 'luck" that goes into it.

View attachment 2077900

I think I might get that tattooed on my back. What an image.

 

[My Tilly]

Geelong is starting to hit all the key indicators you need to be marking at this time of the season.

St Kilda may have the slight edge given this is their home ground but I like the back-line matchup's without King down there causing concerns.
The speed of Humphries will be a significant factor this time as St Kilda's smalls have usually been a problem.

Does Ross go defensive and make it a scrap or does he throw caution to the wind and let them play on instinct.
Cats by 25 points.

 

[Chinacats]

Wilkie is a good defensive match up for Jez. Stopping Jez means cats forwards would need to raise their game in this one.

 

[Lethal09]

Chris Scott

Chris Scott

Age

48

Ht

182cm

Wt

89kg

Pos.

Fwd

Career

Season

Last 5

D

16.6

4star

K

11.2

4star

HB

5.4

4star

M

5.1

5star

T

1.6

4star

G

0.4

3star

No current season stats available

D

13.2

4star

K

10.2

4star

HB

3.0

3star

M

2.2

3star

T

2.8

5star

G

0.4

3star

has more premierships beside his name than st kilda does in there whole history.

Geelong by 22 points.

 

[PhatBoy]

How many list has Chris Scott turned over? Replenshised how many with young player who he had to teach the game plan? Chris Scott has been the luckiest coach in the AFL, inherited a talent laden list while having talent beg to come to Geelong (Dangerfield and Cameron). easy to have such high defensive and offensive stats when you do have to rely on kids.
I never mentioned anything about Druggie Thompson or Racist Clarkson so I don't get what that has to do with what I was talking about.
The point was that Lyon and Scottt both have a very defensive style that lends to the slingshot game but keep missing the point just like most Cats fans on Bigfooty.

I just walked into this thread for a cursory glance but…. Wow.

Is this a serious question?

My serious answer would be at least 3.

Who cares if we got Dangerfield or Cameron. How does that make him any luckier than Goodwin landing the superstar players he’s landed at Melbourne through the various means they’ve landed them, or Hardwick getting Martin and Rance and then Lynch to keep things going or whatever. How is us signing a superstar in 2015 and another at the end of 2020 any ‘luckier’ than ‘here you go. Because you were shit, have some good players’

The nett outcome is the same - over 14 years you must turn the list over 3-4 times to stay in the job. There’s no rule that says ‘it only counts if it’s been done via a rebuild’

 

[Mat Mann]

Chris Scott has more premierships beside his name than st kilda does in there whole history.

Geelong by 22 points.

we're in the presence of a genius

 

[MickG88]

I just walked into this thread for a cursory glance but…. Wow.

Is this a serious question?

My serious answer would be at least 3.

Who cares if we got Dangerfield or Cameron. How does that make him any luckier than Goodwin landing the superstar players he’s landed at Melbourne through the various means they’ve landed them, or Hardwick getting Martin and Rance and then Lynch to keep things going or whatever. How is us signing a superstar in 2015 and another at the end of 2020 any ‘luckier’ than ‘here you go. Because you were shit, have some good players’

The nett outcome is the same - over 14 years you must turn the list over 3-4 times to stay in the job. There’s no rule that says ‘it only counts if it’s been done via a rebuild’

Not to start this debate again but you are wrong, one of your fellow cats supporters put up a graph of when the first premiership team turned into the 2022 preliminary team. So its two but we are splitting hairs. And to be a real dick, Cats still have Hawkins and Duncan on the list from the 2011 premiership so not a complete list turn over but again splitting hairs.

 

[MickG88]

Chris Scott has more premierships beside his name than st kilda does in there whole history.

Geelong by 22 points.

He has more than Geelong as well

 

[PhatBoy]

Not to start this debate again but you are wrong, one of your fellow cats supporters put up a graph of when the first premiership team turned into the 2022 preliminary team. So its two but we are splitting hairs. And to be a real dick, Cats still have Hawkins and Duncan on the list from the 2011 premiership so not a complete list turn over but again splitting hairs.

So what, Sam Mitchell still has Breust on the list at Hawthorn from 2009 (yes I know their flag was 2008) but you aren’t going to say it hasn’t turned over from then are you. I’m pretty sure when people first started using the phrase ‘list turnover’ they didn’t intend for it to mean specifically ‘every player that was on the list at point A has to have gone by point B for it to count.’

Again, it’s been turned over at least 3 times. Yes there’s been a number of constants but the volume of players who have constituted a huge part of the side, has changed multiple times. The graph doesn’t disprove that one iota. When he started it was Johnson, Chapman, Mooney, Milburn, Rooke, Varcoe, Stokes, Byrnes, Christensen, Ling, Corey, Wojinscki, Hunt, Kelly, Scarlett, Podsiadly, West, Ottens. Within 3-4 seasons all those players were gone. That’s 18 players either from the 2011 flag side or on the fringe of it. Another season later Bartel and Corey went. That was 9 seasons ago. That’s over a starting side worth of premiership talent, gone a decade ago.

That’s just premiership talent, and that’s just players that left nearly a decade ago. And it’s nearly a full team worth. It doesn’t include players like Menzel and Cowan either who never even really got on the field after getting injured but took up a spot for five years.

Then we go onto players like Taylor, Henderson, Rivers, McCarthy, Thurlow, Mackie, Lonergan, Kersten, Cockatoo, Walker, Smith, Smedts, Horlin-Smith, Menegola, Tim Kelly, Ratugolea, Murdoch, Sam Simpson, Jordan Clark, Dalhaus, Isaac Smith. Some of those players were downright garbage and there’s another dozen I didn’t mention for the same reason. But we got what we needed out of them, stayed top four the whole time they were rotating in and out of the mix, made a grand final and lost, and a few of them were around when we eventually made another one.

Now all those players have gone and here we are again and about to lose another fistful of players but seemingly ready to go again.

 

[MC Extra Dollop]

I'm encouraged by our recent fourth quarters (both trailling at 3/4 time): the dogfight we had to claw back the lead against Adelaide and how we controlled the game in hostile territory against a fellow top four aspirant last week.

Adelaide in particular I think was an underrated performance: while we didn't bang on eight goals to nothing or anything like that, I thought we played fantastically well and showed a lot of guts, when we just absolutely needed to get the four points somehow.

 

[Munich]

Funny that you keep having a go at Ross Lyon but he's mates with your coach and they coach in a similar way. The only difference between Saints and Cats is Cats have a homefield advantage and can lure "surf coast" natives back home. What would Cats be without that? No Dangerfield, no Cameron, no Bruhn, no Bowes. I'm not going to talk about the father son luck that Geelong have expirenced, not something the club can control.

Cameron is from Dartmoor. Wouldn't call that a surf coast native.

Bowes is a Qld'er isn't he. Regardless, he's not really a star in our side.

 

[Munich]

He has more than Geelong as well

eh?

 

[MickG88]

eh?

Chris Scott has 5 AFL premiership, Geelong has 4 AFL premierships.

 

[Munich]

Chris Scott has 5 AFL premiership, Geelong has 4 AFL premierships.

What's the 5th one?

 

[Mr Meow]

Not to start this debate again but you are wrong, one of your fellow cats supporters put up a graph of when the first premiership team turned into the 2022 preliminary team. So its two but we are splitting hairs. And to be a real dick, Cats still have Hawkins and Duncan on the list from the 2011 premiership so not a complete list turn over but again splitting hairs.

Still, even our best 22 compared to 2017 has 16 new players. And that side's best 22 had 16 new players compared to the 2011 version. With that many new players, it's not even close the same team.

I'd argue Scott's had at least 3 different sides at Geelong. The top 5 in 2011 were Selwood, Bartel, Johnson, Enright and Taylor. The top 5 in 2017 were Dangerfield, Selwood, Hawkins, Duncan and Tuohy. The top 5 in 2024 are Cameron, Stewart, Holmes, Stengle and Miers.

 

[Wosh]

Teams are up

 

[supahoops]

What's the 5th one?

Not used to doing homework sounds like this one’s still in Primary School.

 

[Elixuh]

 

[Sarcoidevo]

This is the Cats 1st game at Marvel Stadium this season

Saints by 6+ goals