News Sam Hayes signs for North Melbourne VFL

[JimmyBC]

Dante is our best Ruck that's why I think he'll start. A immature body is why I don't think he's playing more than a few games. By the end of the year he'll have matured a bit and that's why I think he'll finish as our 1st pick Ruck.

Bizarre expectation. We've recruited our number 1 ruck & his back-up.

 

[davesnothere]

Bizarre expectation. We've recruited our number 1 ruck & his back-up.

We've recruited two second tier Ruckman.

If Hayes had a tank at all he'd beat both of them.

Dante is better than that.

 

[JimmyBC]

We've recruited two second tier Ruckman.

If Hayes had a tank at all he'd beat both of them.

Dante is better than that.

It's irrelevant if you rate them as second tier, Ken will roll with Soldo immediately he'd have to stink it up beyond belief to not be backed in for umpteen weeks.

I like Dante, but he's a baby giraffe, Soldo & Sweet are completely for right now.

 

[Janus]

Isn't presenting home and away stats that show that we are statistically "around the mark" of being a top team. While being so far away from winning anything in September just the cherry on the top that says that the coaching is what is sub-par not the players?

Finishing 10th for points conceded is nowhere near being a “top team”. It’s actually a testament to how strong our midfield and forward line is that we managed to finish top four. But you’re right about the coaching - the defence was Bassett’s wheelhouse. And he’s no longer with us.

 

[Duck Farmer]

But you’re right about the coaching - the defence was Bassett’s wheelhouse. And he’s no longer with us.

Overall performance is Hinkley's wheelhouse and he's still with us.

 

[Granny Duurs is Lovely]

Lol the GWS ruck that destroyed Lycett was who Hayes easily beat when we won by 50 points.

Despite what Ken says about losing more with youth, real possibility that we are in the prelims with this switch.

I love this revisionist history. Briggs had 11 hitouts to advantage to Hayes 3 in that game

 

[Del165198]

It's irrelevant if you rate them as second tier, Ken will roll with Soldo immediately he'd have to stink it up beyond belief to not be backed in for umpteen weeks.

I like Dante, but he's a baby giraffe, Soldo & Sweet are completely for right now.

Soldo will remind kern of Lycett so he'll get 100 games in a row even if he spuds it up

 

[EskimoPAFC]

I reckon the Sweet Soldo battle could be closer than people expect.

 

[Butters and Pepper]

I reckon the Sweet Soldo battle could be closer than people expect.

Sweet Soldo, sounds like a new and improved Lemon drink.

 

[El_Scorcho]

I love this revisionist history. Briggs had 11 hitouts to advantage to Hayes 3 in that game

Wasn't it you who once argued that Lycett wasn't all that bad in the 2020 prelim because he won the hitouts and hitouts to advantage?

Stop looking at raw hitout and HTA numbers and start looking at how the stoppage unit plays. The job of a ruckman is to bring his midfielders into the game. Lycett gets a shitload of hitouts that achieve absolutely nothing and he had horrible chemistry with our mids.

In 2017, Paddy Ryder was 12th in HTA% among ruckman who got to at least 50 ruck contests a game, with 30.4%. That's lower than Hayes' career HTA%. Do I think that Hayes is better than Ryder's All Australian season? Not even on the same planet. But I think HTA is mostly a junk stat that doesn't accurately reflect how well a ruckman is doing his job.

 

[Peninsula Boy]

The job of a ruckman is to bring his midfielders into the game. Lycett gets a shitload of hitouts that achieve absolutely nothing and he had horrible chemistry with our mids.

I seem to be agreeing with the Scorchman in 2024 albeit a small sample size.

These two bolded fonts are the crux of the matter and go beyond the stats.

The ruckman brings his midfielders into the game with his ruck work but it can also be a big mark, link up play, a big shepherd and overall imposing his will and strength in the contest. He sets the table and the mids finish it off.

And I agree, Lycett didn't have great chemistry all year with the midfield. They almost played in spite of him. There were times where Hayes had good chemistry and set the table and made the game easier for the mids. He didn't do it a lot but when he did, it was very, very exciting.

I hope Soldo and Sweet can work in synergy with a young midfield that could dominate if Horne- Francis accelerates his development this year which is not out of the question.

 

[Duckimus Prime]

In 2017, Paddy Ryder was 12th in HTA% among ruckman who got to at least 50 ruck contests a game, with 30.4%. That's lower than Hayes' career HTA%. Do I think that Hayes is better than Ryder's All Australian season? Not even on the same planet. But I think HTA is mostly a junk stat that doesn't accurately reflect how well a ruckman is doing his job.

Which is funny, because thats why everyone here wanks on about Hayes during his first run of 5 games in 2022. Despite the fact that Port were spanked in clearances for those matches against sides that weren't fighting for the wooden spoon.

Hayes didn't smash Briggs. Hayes was convincingly dominated by Briggs at ruck contests. It was more the fact that GWS brought very little effort and work rate to that match.

 

[Ford Fairlane]

The stats for ruck taps and clearances definitely for the two GWS games tell a story.

We were beaten easily in hitouts in both games, 16-38 in the minor round (MR) and 22-43 in the final (F).

But the clearances reversed over the two games, 40-33 (MR) compared to 29-45 (F).

At the centre bounces we pretty much broke even in clearances in both games, 17-19 (MR) and 12-11 (F).

But stoppages around the ground, we were trounced in the final 17-34 compared to 23-14 in the minor round.

In the final, Tom Green

12

Tom Green

Age

23

Ht

192cm

Wt

92kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

11.5

3star

K

4.3

2star

HB

7.3

5star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.3

4star

CL

2.8

4star

D

11.5

3star

K

4.3

2star

HB

7.3

4star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.3

3star

CL

2.8

4star

D

11.5

3star

K

4.3

2star

HB

7.3

5star

M

1.8

2star

T

2.3

4star

CL

2.8

5star

, Briggs, Ward and Coniglio dominated the clearances, they were the top 4 for the match. Briggs had big clearance numbers both games (7 and 8). Hayes (2) and Lycett (1) contributed bugger all to that statline.

Hayes overall had a better game than Lycett comparing the two games, but that wasn't the difference. Their big contested guns just won more ball around the ground and GWS used it better. Plus we were cooked by then.

Just a passing observation, we lost the free kick count in both games, so at least that was consistent with the season.

 

[Peninsula Boy]

The stats for ruck taps and clearances definitely for the two GWS games tell a story.

We were beaten easily in hitouts in both games, 16-38 in the minor round (MR) and 22-43 in the final (F).

But the clearances reversed over the two games, 40-33 (MR) compared to 29-45 (F).

At the centre bounces we pretty much broke even in clearances in both games, 17-19 (MR) and 12-11 (F).

But stoppages around the ground, we were trounced in the final 17-34 compared to 23-14 in the minor round.

In the final, Tom Green, Briggs, Ward and Coniglio dominated the clearances, they were the top 4 for the match. Briggs had big clearance numbers both games (7 and 8). Hayes (2) and Lycett (1) contributed bugger all to that staline.

Hayes overall had a better game than Lycett comparing the two games, but that wasn't the difference. Their big contested guns just won more ball around the ground and GWS used it better. Plus we were cooked by then.

Just a passing observation, we lost the free kick count in both games, so at least that was consistent with the season.

IIRC, the first win against the Giants was a bit of an anomaly as the Giants had been playing pretty darn good football and the AFL world hadn't quite caught up with their form and we were in the midst of 4 game losing streak with this game being a possible loss at home as the Giants had been down to Geelong and beat them.

I remember the Power starting really strongly which is not usual for us and we got out to a very good lead early. It was one of those games that by half time, the game was technically over. Bergman kicked and contributed to 3 or 4 goals in the first quarter and then we got a run on. I think Wines played a good game as well which really helped the midfield.

I remember Hayes being decent but he had some passages that he vibed with the midfield that was rare with Lycett.

And as you've stated, in the Final, our young midfield was outclassed by their contested ball and overall running to get to contests. In the aftermath, truth be told, that part of the game was demoralising.

So in a space of a month, we went from beating the Giants handsomely to struggling to play our game and losing when it counted.

 

[240volt]

IIRC, the first win against the Giants was a bit of an anomaly as the Giants had been playing pretty darn good football and the AFL world hadn't quite caught up with their form and we were in the midst of 4 game losing streak with this game being a possible loss at home as the Giants had been down to Geelong and beat them.

I remember the Power starting really strongly which is not usual for us and we got out to a very good lead early. It was one of those games that by half time, the game was technically over. Bergman kicked and contributed to 3 or 4 goals in the first quarter and then we got a run on. I think Wines played a good game as well which really helped the midfield.

I remember Hayes being decent but he had some passages that he vibed with the midfield that was rare with Lycett.

And as you've stated, in the Final, our young midfield was outclassed by their contested ball and overall running to get to contests. In the aftermath, truth be told, that part of the game was demoralising.

So in a space of a month, we went from beating the Giants handsomely to struggling to play our game and losing when it counted.

I believe the Giants had a couple of key players back from the minor round game and the guys that struggled in the middle fired in the finals.
Giants had played well the week before playing us we on the other hand came off a thrashing.
We definitely peaked at the wrong time of year and once some injuries came along we went down like the Titanic.
We never had the depth to cover injured players and that’s been a massive problem for some time now.

 

[El_Scorcho]

Which is funny, because thats why everyone here wanks on about Hayes during his first run of 5 games in 2022. Despite the fact that Port were spanked in clearances for those matches against sides that weren't fighting for the wooden spoon.

Stoppage chemistry doesn't happen in a week or two. If Hayes had been picked every time he was fit and the best fit ruckman on the list in 2022 and 2023, we'd have started to see the fruits of that chemistry a lot more regularly.

Hayes didn't smash Briggs. Hayes was convincingly dominated by Briggs at ruck contests. It was more the fact that GWS brought very little effort and work rate to that match.

I don't think Hayes smashed Briggs either, but I think we'd have been far better off playing Hayes in the prelim, someone whose ruckwork could actually lead to our midfielders getting the ball in good positions at stoppages. Through moronic list and development management we found ourselves in the ruck situation we did this year, and we continued to make the wrong choice right up until the game where we got knocked out.

The 1st ruck sets the tone. You can't play someone who is physically shot, mentally checked out and at his peak was probably the 15th best ruckman in the league.

 

[thundercloud]

Sam seems a nice lad and wish him well in whatever pursuit in life he follows. However, could not see him on GF day on MCG being able to do his job. We now have 2 seasoned rucks one of which has contributed on GF day. Best to move on for all. As a by the way giants could well have played in GF except for the umpiring at one stage!

 

[jac147]

Sam seems a nice lad and wish him well in whatever pursuit in life he follows. However, could not see him on GF day on MCG being able to do his job. We now have 2 seasoned rucks one of which has contributed on GF day. Best to move on for all. As a by the way giants could well have played in GF except for the umpiring at one stage!

Hear hear, mods please close this thread down as it has now run its course, as it started as a poster wondering where Sam was heading in 2024!

 

[Alyx]

However, could not see him on GF day on MCG being able to do his job.

 

[simba_]

Sam seems a nice lad

please elaborate

 

[PJ Power]

The stats for ruck taps and clearances definitely for the two GWS games tell a story.

We were beaten easily in hitouts in both games, 16-38 in the minor round (MR) and 22-43 in the final (F).

But the clearances reversed over the two games, 40-33 (MR) compared to 29-45 (F).

At the centre bounces we pretty much broke even in clearances in both games, 17-19 (MR) and 12-11 (F).

But stoppages around the ground, we were trounced in the final 17-34 compared to 23-14 in the minor round.

In the final, Tom Green, Briggs, Ward and Coniglio dominated the clearances, they were the top 4 for the match. Briggs had big clearance numbers both games (7 and 8). Hayes (2) and Lycett (1) contributed bugger all to that statline.

Hayes overall had a better game than Lycett comparing the two games, but that wasn't the difference. Their big contested guns just won more ball around the ground and GWS used it better. Plus we were cooked by then.

Just a passing observation, we lost the free kick count in both games, so at least that was consistent with the season.

Wines played one of his better games in that first match against the Giants, then was very quiet in both finals. That was a big difference.

 

[TeeKray]

You can blame Lycett or Wines or whoever but the fact is that Rozee, Butters and Horne-Francis were all in the Brownlow votes in the first GWS game and then nowhere to be seen during the first half onslaught of the GWS final. They are the best players on the team, they are the on field leaders, it starts with them and they were primarily to blame for what took place.

 

[thundercloud]

please elaborate

Other than saying hello to the big fella on walkway back western oval, have no-real incite but media etc

 

[Scodges]

You can blame Lycett or Wines or whoever but the fact is that Rozee, Butters and Horne-Francis were all in the Brownlow votes in the first GWS game and then nowhere to be seen during the first half onslaught of the GWS final. They are the best players on the team, they are the on field leaders, it starts with them and they were primarily to blame for what took place.

Our midfield was MIA in both showdowns.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[TeeKray]

Our midfield was MIA in both showdowns.


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

We know the Crows have a mental edge over us so that's not surprising and it's at least a consistent pattern.

The way our midfield was able to totally dominate GWS and then a little over a month later totally capitulate against them with the only difference being H&A game v finals game was jarring.