News Sam Hayes signs for North Melbourne VFL

[1954]

You are spot on, there is no distinction between winners after and before our AFL side.
definitely needs changing.

If that is the case it absolutely needs to be changed!

 

[TazD]

Y'all mean to tell me Sam Gayes isn't as good as Russell Ebert?

 

[Shaucob_Burjan]

Just want to say, I told you that the two rucks we picked up aren't really any better than Hayes

 

[EskimoPAFC]

Just want to say, I told you that the two rucks we picked up aren't really any better than Hayes

Hayes biggest weakness was always that our ******ed coaches had a vendetta against him.

Its horrible to think we might finally be flushing the shit down the toilet too late for him.

 

[HHHAMMERtime]

Just want to say, I told you that the two rucks we picked up aren't really any better than Hayes

This is the thing. I really liked the Sweet pickup. Cost us absolutely nothing and a good player to have on the list. The Soldo one was an abysmal move given we’d already gotten sweet (who is as good as him basically) and had to fork out some serious capital for a 28…? year old with a record of big injuries. Moronic list management.

 

[HinkleysHeroes]

This is the thing. I really liked the Sweet pickup. Cost us absolutely nothing and a good player to have on the list. The Soldo one was an abysmal move given we’d already gotten sweet (who is as good as him basically) and had to fork out some serious capital for a 28…? year old with a record of big injuries. Moronic list management.

If Soldo is fit he is well above Sweet.

Sadly injuries again and again are holding him back.

 

[HHHAMMERtime]

If Soldo is fit he is well above Sweet.

Sadly injuries again and again are holding him back.

He’s not THAT much better though. Especially not worth what we gave up for him.

 

[El_Scorcho]

If we'd just played Hayes every time he was the most appropriate ruckman to be selected, he'd have developed AFL level match fitness.

Then even if he went, we'd have been able to trade him for some decent return.

How has picking Finlayson and Teakle all those times gone for us? Our coaches are ****ing idiots. If they want to blame the list for even a second they can blame their own disastrous inability to develop talls.

 

[Ford Fairlane]

Teakle only ever played 6 games. It might feel like 40 but it wasn't.

But our coaches are still ****ing idiots. That can't be disputed.

 

[rumoursofwinter]

Teakle was playing okay for North today. He just isn't a full time ruck and isn't dominant enough to be a kpf. Our development of talls is woeful which means we trade like last year out of desperation.

 

[philthy05]

Teakle was playing okay for North today. He just isn't a full time ruck and isn't dominant enough to be a kpf. Our development of talls is woeful which means we trade like last year out of desperation.

North arguably has the worst spine in the afl. Daniel stewert could get a regular game there today, and he was shit

 

[Puddy]

If we'd just played Hayes every time he was the most appropriate ruckman to be selected, he'd have developed AFL level match fitness.

Then even if he went, we'd have been able to trade him for some decent return.

How has picking Finlayson and Teakle all those times gone for us? Our coaches are ****ing idiots. If they want to blame the list for even a second they can blame their own disastrous inability to develop talls.

Some athletes can't increase their fitness

 

[Phar Ted]

hayes was/is horrible, will never know if he was just lazy or naturally unfit.

 

[Fizzler]

This whole thing about Hayes’ fitness confuses the **** out of me. In the few games he played did his apparent lack of fitness ever make him a liability on the field? I don’t think he was ever any more of a liability than Lycett or Teakle who are obviously gone now, but he was never really ahead of them in the pecking order at any point. And even still, these coaches persist with a dual “ruckman” set up all the time, even if those ruckmen are Dixon and Finlayson, so I will never be convinced it wasn’t a weird vendetta against him.

 

[El_Scorcho]

Some athletes can't increase their fitness

I don't believe for a second that Sam Hayes fitness had capped out.

Match fitness, especially as a ruckman at AFL level, is a different sort of fitness. But it's a wider problem at the club. We can't develop talls. There is always an excuse as to why they don't come on.

 

[El_Scorcho]

Teakle only ever played 6 games. It might feel like 40 but it wasn't.

But our coaches are still ****ing idiots. That can't be disputed.

Between Teakle, Finlayson and Visentini, we could have gotten another 15-20 games into Hayes, but more importantly given him a run of games to settle at AFL level.

Dropping him for part timers in the back half of 2022 was criminal. Typical Hinkley selling the future to get himself out of trouble now.

 

[Phar Ted]

I don't believe for a second that Sam Hayes fitness had capped out.

Match fitness, especially as a ruckman at AFL level, is a different sort of fitness. But it's a wider problem at the club. We can't develop talls. There is always an excuse as to why they don't come on.

Carn, hayes is currently playing for cheltenham in the Bendigo Bank division (whatever that is) and has managed to get in the besties just once from his four games there - he just isn't a very good footballer contrary to some weird BF group think.

 

[El_Scorcho]

Carn, hayes is currently playing for cheltenham in the Bendigo Bank division (whatever that is) and has managed to get in the besties just once from his four games there - he just isn't a very good footballer contrary to some weird BF group think.

Yeah yeah yeah, it's always the same. Our tall players who don't come on "just aren't very good footballers" despite showing enough to get a large portion of the supporter base excited about their potential. In Hayes case despite playing some good games in the ruck at AFL level.

Development matters. If you **** up the development of your players, they fall a long way short of their potential. We're not just unlucky.

 

[Phar Ted]

Yeah yeah yeah, it's always the same. Our tall players who don't come on "just aren't very good footballers" despite showing enough to get a large portion of the supporter base excited about their potential. In Hayes case despite playing some good games in the ruck at AFL level.

Development matters. If you **** up the development of your players, they fall a long way short of their potential. We're not just unlucky.

Just admit he wasn't up to it and move on. He obviously slid on draft night for a reason and the reality is we have spent most of our earlier picks on smaller players although under the Sydney system Ladhams is now a proven A grader!!

 

[RangaInTeal]

Yeah yeah yeah, it's always the same. Our tall players who don't come on "just aren't very good footballers" despite showing enough to get a large portion of the supporter base excited about their potential. In Hayes case despite playing some good games in the ruck at AFL level.

Development matters. If you **** up the development of your players, they fall a long way short of their potential. We're not just unlucky.

This is the thing, we wait for them to be plug and play footballers. Marshall and Lord the exception to the rule, Scully and Visintini should be backed in from the minute Doughnuts is arsed.

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

This is the thing, we wait for them to be plug and play footballers. Marshall and Lord the exception to the rule, Scully and Visintini should be backed in from the minute Doughnuts is arsed.

I love the potential of Scully but he will get absolutely reemed in the afl

 

[Long live PAFC]

If we'd just played Hayes every time he was the most appropriate ruckman to be selected, he'd have developed AFL level match fitness.

Then even if he went, we'd have been able to trade him for some decent return.

How has picking Finlayson and Teakle all those times gone for us? Our coaches are ****ing idiots. If they want to blame the list for even a second they can blame their own disastrous inability to develop talls.

Hayes might have chalked up 20-25 games total. Hardly enough to establish himself or build an AFL ready tank/body.

As to being worthy of a trade - Nyoun, Fullarton both got traded without playing a single game. Hayes had the same amount of exposed form as Sweet. Teakle earned a train on spot at the reigning premiers and an eventual spot on a list. Plenty of rucks get traded with minimal exposed AFL form. And plenty of clubs are keen to pick up multiple rucks.

I’m of the opinion that most people can get the fitness to do just about anything but it requires the right training and hard work. Hayes may never be an elite runner but has plenty of time at an AFL club to get to the level required. It’s not all on the club either, Boak is an example of players putting in during the off season to find the extra gear.

No one quite knows how Hayes went from maybe debuting in his first year, to be ruckman outside the AFL hyperbole with Sydney chasing him, to delisted and not getting a training spot or mid season pick. Best ruckman in the SANFL at around age 22, everything to suggest he had a bright future. And then delisted with no AFL club interested. Maybe Sam wants to move on. Maybe he was broken and needs some time away. Or maybe no one was interested. Hard to imagine everyone had just forgotten Sam’s amazing junior form and SANFL form such that they weren’t even willing to give him a training spot over summer.

We can blame Hinkley, the coaches and Port all we want. Maybe Sam needs some criticism around his work ethic. Or maybe he just wasn’t good enough, everyone gave it a crack and it just didn’t work. Maybe we just need to wish Sam well and move on.

 

[El_Scorcho]

As to being worthy of a trade - Nyoun, Fullarton both got traded without playing a single game. Hayes had the same amount of exposed form as Sweet.

Just on this part, the rest of the AFL world watched us with the worst ruck division in the league play part timers and Brynn Teakle ahead of Hayes.

That absolutely effects the willingness of other clubs to pick him up. Port might be wrong but why waste a list spot on a guy that couldn't even get a game for Port ahead of Finlayson?

Not to mention with the sort of development he'd get at 17 other clubs, he'd have been a better player at AFL level.

Apart from 1 good season from Lobbe before he fell off a cliff, we haven't developed a ruckman to AFL standard in 20 years. Maybe Hayes was at fault but if so, are we just really unlucky? Or is there something systemic going on with how we develop talls?

 

[Long live PAFC]

Just on this part, the rest of the AFL world watched us with the worst ruck division in the league play part timers and Brynn Teakle ahead of Hayes.

That absolutely effects the willingness of other clubs to pick him up. Port might be wrong but why waste a list spot on a guy that couldn't even get a game for Port ahead of Finlayson?

Not to mention with the sort of development he'd get at 17 other clubs, he'd have been a better player at AFL level.

Apart from 1 good season from Lobbe before he fell off a cliff, we haven't developed a ruckman to AFL standard in 20 years. Maybe Hayes was at fault but if so, are we just really unlucky? Or is there something systemic going on with how we develop talls?

Two separate issues.

Whether Sam Hayes didn’t get another gig because of his management at Port.

And two, port’s development of talls.

As to number one:

• no club needed to give him a spot, they just had to have him train on spot. Numerous clubs could use a ready made AFL ruck. For whatever reason, Sam didn’t get a train on spot.
• multiple players got traded on little or no exposed form. Sam would have been no different
• Ladhams and Teakle were young rucks backed in by the club (they were the wrong rucks so this doesn’t count according to fans). Ladhams had off field issues and got picked up by Sydney. Teakle played six games were his opponent was BOG and had their best games ever, got a train on at the premiers and an eventual spot at North.
• Hayes had 4 games in 2023, plenty to show that he had something at AFL level and warranted someone having a look. Had he played instead of Teakle and notched another 6 games, would that have made a difference?
• as to playing behind part timers. Finlayson rated highly as a ruck and from his own CD points whilst he played as a ruck.

I think it’s disingenuous to suggest port drove Hayes into the ground such that he was worth nothing. Even had he been worth a pick, it’s likely it would have been comparable or less than Sweet. So maybe a third or fourth rounder at best.

As to port’s development of talls, I would think we are average in the AFL. We should be better than that. However there are lots of factors.

 

[Schulzenfest]

As to port’s development of talls, I would think we are average in the AFL. We should be better than that. However there are lots of factors.

We are far, far worse than average.

Who was the last tall we drafted and developed into a high quality AFL key position player over a long period of time? I genuinely can't think of one before ****ing Dean Brogan. That was over 20 years ago. Aliir, Dixon, Schulz, Ryder, Lycett, McKenzie; all trade ins. We're currently pinning our hopes on Soldo, Sweet, Ratugolea, Zerk-Thatcher, Finlayson, all trade ins.

The sum total of twenty years of KPP drafting and development at Port Adelaide is half a good season from Lobbe and one good season from Marshall before they both regressed horribly. Hopefully given time Georgiades and Lord can break the trend, but history tells me not to expect much.