Shane Tuck

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Damon_3388

Damon_3388

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Shane Tuck

Tuck was the highest rated player on the ground this afternoon according to Champion Data in the Geelong vs. Richmond match - 32 disposals (43.75% of which were contested) @ 91% disposal efficiency, 5 clearances, 6 marks, 4 tackles, 2 inside 50s, and a Champion Data Player Ranking score of 133. This isn't the first time he's been one of Richmond's best players in a loss against the Cats either (2010, 2009, 2008, 2007 and 2007). Obviously stats aren't everything, but as a measure of all-round effectiveness and impact (as opposed to a raw tally of kicks, marks, etc.), the CD Player Ranking score is one of the better ones available, and generally correlates well with who has actually had an impact on the day. Stats aside though, it was clear to see that Tuck was performing well today in a losing side. If the bloke can perform like this against one of the best sides of recent times when given the opportunity and gametime, why can't he get more of a consistent run in the Richmond side? He's played just 44% gametime in five appearances for the Tigers this season.

Tuck is tough, durable (played 107 consecutive games from debut), can win the hard ball and win it in high volume, and provide a physical pressence around the contest like few on the Richmond list. I know people will say that he's has average disposal by foot, and that at age 29 he "won't be there for their next major finals tilt" and would be "denying a kid a game", but surely what Tuck brings to the table is exactly what a young, developing side needs - a tough, big-bodied inside mid who'll keep trying all day and do the heavy lifting, allowing other more polished players to look good. Matt Priddis played this role perfectly for years in a struggling West Coast side, and is just now getting the credit for it he deserves in an improved Eagles outfit. Admittedly, Priddis is younger and is a better tackler than Tuck, but their strengths and flaws as players are fairly similar (However, Tuck has historically been a more efficient kick of the footy while having a higher percentage of contested possessions than Priddis).

In short, should Richmond give Shane Tuck more of a go?
 
Unfortunatly for Tuck he's always the target for Richmonds Youth Policy, However he's one of their better midfielders and you do need a durable physical body in the midfield rather then blooding 4 19 year olds

He should be in the side week in and week out, Tucks only get better with age, probably hitting his peak
 

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Certain players tend to get away with a heap at Richmond, some horrible, lazy efforts that wouldn't be acceptable in the VFL. And some of these players are very high profile as well.

It's all very well playing youth but if they aren't even doing the very basic things that every AFL player is required to do then they shouldn't be getting a game, Tuck has been a scapegoat for years yet he's one of the few who looks like he's giving his all out there. I watched Tuck today and he was doing all the important things; getting back to help his defenders, tackling, going in hard at the ball, clearing the ball and setting up play.
 
Probably because Wayne Campbell dislikes him and if that's true it's no surprise we're going no where at present. None of us fans could understand why hes not in every week when he brings to the table the ability to win clearances and hard balls, things we have been terrible at. Also have heard his contract required him to play 8 games to get another year, which is why he has been held out. Would be a great get for a couple of years for GWS or GC in my opinion.
 
delirious1 said:
Unfortunatly for Tuck he's always the target for Richmonds Youth Policy, However he's one of their better midfielders and you do need a durable physical body in the midfield rather then blooding 4 19 year olds

He should be in the side week in and week out, Tucks only get better with age, probably hitting his peak
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I think the main thing we have learnt this year with Tuck being out is how weak our midfield is without another strong body in there, no team can carry the likes of Edwards, White and even Jackson all rotating through the middle, I don't understand why people rave and carry on about our midfield when in all honesty it is probably 2-3 quality midfielders short of being competitive.

Cotchin, Martin, Foley and Conca is a good base to build around, people will try and include Deledio but early on when people were complaining about him not playing midfield forgot to notice how terrible our skills are through the backhalf with Houli, Deledio, Batchelor and Newman back there we at least have a few players who can hit constantly hit a target by foot, only problem is, is that our Midfield and Wingers don't work nearly as hard enough at the moment up the field to provide an option or hard enough working back.

We have a few kids in the reserves who are being groomed to allow the likes of Deledio and Houli to move further up the field but they are coming back from injuries that have seen them miss about 8-10 weeks of football.

People may question why we are playing dud players when it is obvious they cant play, which they are right to question but people also seem to forget that even the Gold Coast has better depth then us, we drop a dud player and another one comes back in, it's a never ending cycle that will continue until Hardwick is allowed the time to get rid of the dud players in the next 2-3 drafts and build quality depth whilst also bolstering our 22.
 
Gak Attack said:
Probably because Wayne Campbell dislikes him and if that's true it's no surprise we're going no where at present. None of us fans could understand why hes not in every week when he brings to the table the ability to win clearances and hard balls, things we have been terrible at. Also have heard his contract required him to play 8 games to get another year, which is why he has been held out. Would be a great get for a couple of years for GWS or GC in my opinion.
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except wayne campbell is no longer midfield coach.
 
Soul_Pie said:
Certain players tend to get away with a heap at Richmond, some horrible, lazy efforts that wouldn't be acceptable in the VFL. And some of these players are very high profile as well.

It's all very well playing youth but if they aren't even doing the very basic things that every AFL player is required to do then they shouldn't be getting a game, Tuck has been a scapegoat for years yet he's one of the few who looks like he's giving his all out there. I watched Tuck today and he was doing all the important things; getting back to help his defenders, tackling, going in hard at the ball, clearing the ball and setting up play.
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Give us names of the players of who you think are lazy (I will most likely agree with all of it with you) and give us names of the players who are currently sitting in the VFL in who could replace them (Don't be alarmed at how poor our other options are).

Gak Attack said:
Probably because Wayne Campbell dislikes him and if that's true it's no surprise we're going no where at present. None of us fans could understand why hes not in every week when he brings to the table the ability to win clearances and hard balls, things we have been terrible at. Also have heard his contract required him to play 8 games to get another year, which is why he has been held out. Would be a great get for a couple of years for GWS or GC in my opinion.
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Those rumours are best kept for Forums such as PRE. ;)
 
Can't believe he gets left out of the side.

So what if he's not going to feature in Richmond's next flag, that's just such a wank phrase.

Footy clubs are all about earnings spots, this isn't the U/12's, it's the AFL FFS your primary objective is to win, not gloat about how low your average age is.
 

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I was of the belief that he couldnt get a game because he wouldnt follow the game plan.

He should have been playing every game, tweak the game plan a bit or play him a bit different but he is easily in the starting 22 every week.
 
ManWithNoName said:
Anyone who uses the "Disposal Effiecency" stat to try and talk up a players performance instantly proves themself as a fool.
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That measure does have its flaws, but I think it's relevant when discussing how well Tuck played this afternoon, as having 32 disposals at 91% efficiency in the inside mid role he plays would be pretty rare for anyone I'd imagine.

An interesting statistical comparison to note:

Disposals per game (2006-2011)
Chris Judd - 25.66
Shane Tuck - 23.72

Disposal efficiency (2006-2011)
Chris Judd - 70.75%
Shane Tuck - 72.98%

Contested possession percentage (2006-2011)
Chris Judd - 45.47%
Shane Tuck - 38.48%

Clearances per game (2006-2011)
Chris Judd - 5.71
Shane Tuck - 4.42

Tackles per game (2006-2011)
Chris Judd - 4.42
Shane Tuck - 3.60

That comparison obviously favours Judd, but seeing as they play similar roles (albeit Judd being a more dynamic attacking player), it certainly doesn't embarass Tuck, and surely someone putting up those numbers would have value in Richmond's current side.

Also, as I mentioned in the OP, Tuck has played just 44% gametime in five appearances for the Tigers this season. Here's what numbers for this season look like when expanded to 85% gametime (about average for most top midfielders):

30.14 disposals per game, 6.95 clearances per game, 5.40 tackles per game, 3.86 inside 50s per game, 2.32 frees per game (gets to the ball first and earns free kicks, just like other top in-and-under mids), 134.45 Champion Data Player Ranking score average (would be leading the league)

Again, surely someone capable of putting up those numbers would have value in Richmond's current side.
 
Don't know why Tuck has stayed at Richmond over the years should have looked elsewhere for more gametime and money. What a shame. Hopefully he's off to GWS next year for his sake - deserves better.
 
Damon_3388 said:
That measure does have its flaws, but I think it's relevant when discussing how well Tuck played this afternoon, as having 32 disposals at 91% efficiency in the inside mid role he plays would be pretty rare for anyone I'd imagine.

An interesting statistical comparison to note:

Disposals per game (2006-2011)
Chris Judd - 25.66
Shane Tuck - 23.72

Disposal efficiency (2006-2011)
Chris Judd - 70.75%
Shane Tuck - 72.98%

Contested possession percentage (2006-2011)
Chris Judd - 45.47%
Shane Tuck - 38.48%

Clearances per game (2006-2011)
Chris Judd - 5.71
Shane Tuck - 4.42

Tackles per game (2006-2011)
Chris Judd - 4.42
Shane Tuck - 3.60

That comparison obviously favours Judd, but seeing as they play similar roles (albeit Judd being a more dynamic attacking player), it certainly doesn't embarass Tuck, and surely someone putting up those numbers would have value in Richmond's current side.

Also, as I mentioned in the OP, Tuck has played just 44% gametime in five appearances for the Tigers this season. Here's what numbers for this season look like when expanded to 85% gametime (about average for most top midfielders):

30.14 disposals per game, 6.95 clearances per game, 5.40 tackles per game, 3.86 inside 50s per game, 2.32 frees per game (gets to the ball first and earns free kicks, just like other top in-and-under mids), 134.45 Champion Data Player Ranking score average (would be leading the league)

Again, surely someone capable of putting up those numbers would have value in Richmond's current side.
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Disposal efficency:

A kick of 40 metres or less to a contest of 50-50 or worse (ie. a marking contest) is deemed inefficient regardless of if your teammate marks it.

A handball into space is deemed inefficient even if a teammate runs onto it.

A kick longer than 40 metres that bounces is deemed efficient even if it's collected by an opponent.

It's the most overrated, misleading stat in football.
 
Prem87 said:
Don't know why Tuck has stayed at Richmond over the years should have looked elsewhere for more gametime and money.
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To be fair, it hasn't really been that much of an issue prior to this year. Tuck played 107 consecutive games from Round 1, 2005 until he was made the scapegoat and dropped by Jade Rawlings after the Tigers let one slip away (were up by seven goals at half time, then just hung on for a draw) against North Melbourne in Round 16, 2009. Tuck missed Rounds 17, 18 and 19 that year, before re-entering the side in the final three games, and performing to his usual standard. After missing the first two games of 2010 (assumedly due to the "youth policy"), he still played the other 20 games last year under Damien Hardwick, producing his usual output, but has definitely stuggled for opportunities (just 5 games this year) and gametime (just 44% of gametime when he has played) in 2011.

ManWithNoName said:
Disposal efficency:

A kick of 40 metres or less to a contest of 50-50 or worse (ie. a marking contest) is deemed inefficient regardless of if your teammate marks it.

A handball into space is deemed inefficient even if a teammate runs onto it.

A kick longer than 40 metres that bounces is deemed efficient even if it's collected by an opponent.

It's the most overrated, misleading stat in football.
Click to expand...

Fair enough, but regardless of any statistical measurements, the main point of the thread is that Tuck played well today, and usually does in the gametime he is afforded, and in my opinion (and in the opinion of others, as the poll is showing) deserves more of a go at Richmond, based on the positives he brings to the table and what the young Richmond side lacks at the moment.
 
Coaches don't want their best mid-fielders playing for the VFL. We have had a problem all year with regards to contested ball, and Tuck is a contested ball machine. Plainly, there is much more to the story that isn't in the public domain.
 
Richo83 said:
While I do think Hardwick is a good coach, this is an error of judgement. Tuck is a good player and helps out the younger kids.
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Simple as that. He is a handy, strong bodied player. With so much youth and under developed bodies in the tigers midfield, he should be there. He should be playing that hard, tough in and under role until the tigers have someone better to do it.
 
baja said:
I was of the belief that he couldnt get a game because he wouldnt follow the game plan.
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On K-Rock Anthony Mithen was asked why Tuck had been out of the side. His response was wtte that Tuck cannot follow instructions and that he plays a 'see ball-get ball' game irrespective of what he has been instructed to do.

Mithen seemed to give the impression that this had been an issue for a number of years and that Tuck had made no improvements. He more or less suggested that Tuck did not have the 'footy smarts' required to stick to a game plan.
 
jimmy.h said:
On K-Rock Anthony Mithen was asked why Tuck had been out of the side. His response was wtte that Tuck cannot follow instructions and that he plays a 'see ball-get ball' game irrespective of what he has been instructed to do.

Mithen seemed to give the impression that this had been an issue for a number of years and that Tuck had made no improvements. He more or less suggested that Tuck did not have the 'footy smarts' required to stick to a game plan.
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For the role he appears to play, what more would Tuck be expected to do than go in hard and get the footy, and give his teammates first use? Unless he's been specifically instructed not to play as an inside extractor, it's hard to see what he's doing wrong or how he's going against the gameplan with how he plays.

Tuck's plight is gaining some media coverage:

Tuck in limbo with Richmond
Greg Buckle
18:56 AEST Sun Jul 24 2011

Richmond coach Damien Hardwick says Shane Tuck may still struggle to earn a regular game for the Tigers following his 32-possession effort on Sunday.

Tuck, Trent Cotchin and Brett Deledio all had over 30 disposals as the 13th-placed Tigers were overwhelmed by the AFL's second-placed side Geelong at Etihad Stadium.

The Cats kicked 11.5 to 1.4 in the first half and after an even second half they cruised to a 17.11 (113) to 7.9 (51) win.

"'Tucky' was really good," Hardwick said of the 29-year-old who was playing his 135th game and only his fifth for 2011.

"It's more about trying to get the best fit for the side. With the amount of midfielders we've got going through there, you can't have too many inside mids.

"Tucky played his role today and did it very very well but with Dustin Martin, Trent Cotchin, Nathan Foley, all those sort of players, which one do I leave out?

"Tucky to his credit, he has been a star. The way he accepts things, he knows where he's at.

"We're really happy with his game."

Tuck, who started last season in the VFL because of deficiencies in his defensive game, finished up playing the last 20 games for the Tigers in 2010 and was fifth in their club best and fairest award.

He is a possible recruiting target for 2012 debutants Greater Western Sydney.
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