So how do you rate our 2015 trade period?

[Doctor Bombay]

So how do you rate our 2015 trade period?

I liked it, the light at the end of the tunnel we 've been watching went up a few thousand on the old kelvin scale, not quite daylight but it's getting there. We've traded well, added some much needed midfield grunt and pace with Jansen, Basti (besti) and Bell. We addressed the need another forward target with Walker and if Freeman, McStay, Close, Paps and Andrews spend the summer in the gym, we're starting to look solid overhead both back and forward. We look cherry ripe long term and if we can blood our #2 pick and academy boysthis year i'll get a bit of a doctors boner.Just need to ensure Martin will be around for a couple more years.

 

[T Factor]

Replace the above picks 38,39,40,41,42...........with 10 and 12, and you'll get a more accurate idea of how we've done.

This is where we have done really well, there is no way a club would actually trade 10 and 12 for those late picks. The fact that the guys coming in are from Queensland is a massive win for us. I like our midfield and defense looks ok, we will have the same problem as last year with forwards, maybe we need to sponsor Walker, a 40 goal forward would be great, trading B, will still be bottom 4 though.

 

[greendiesel]

Replace the above picks 38,39,40,41,42...........with 10 and 12, and you'll get a more accurate idea of how we've done.

38 39 40 41 42 = 2147 pts
Other clubs offer up picks 10 + 12 for Keays and Hipwood = 2663
We match with 2130 pts ( i.e.. 2663 takeaway Academy 20% discount of 533 = 2130)
Therefore our 38 39 40 41 42 roughly = other clubs offer at 10 + 12 ...simple.

 

[Leuy LongerCombo]

A rating of C/C+ is fair, we let a few handy players go, and got a few back.

The trade period is only one part of the off season, most of the teams that have went well, will be balanced out on the draft ratings. Our Off Season will certainly increase after the draft, and we will come out better than a lot of other teams overall.

All things considered, im happy enough with that effort.

 

[lukiuslion]

Happy with the trade period.

It did dawn on me at the gym as I was sitting there that - we bought in a bunch of mids again (bar walker) and will still probley go for whitecross. I got lured into just being excited by fresh faces again, but the wondered why we didn't even try to push for a key defender or two (beyond astbury), even if only for depth.

All in all given this factor, the fact we lost 3 very players and got a lot of unproven/ average players in return a 'C' seems about right, however - I'm content the club did all they could with what was available and I am happy. I am excited about our team and feel the club did well enough to keep the faith in what were building.

I just fear another year of pain when it dawns on us early in the season "oh yeah we have no experienced keys at either end of the ground, we are screwed" and the reality of our plight sets In - I'll be wondering why we have bought in 9 midfielders and one bigger body over 2 years again, no doubt, but it's all fun and games.

 

[lions27]

Happy with the trade period.

It did dawn on me at the gym as I was sitting there that - we bought in a bunch of mids again (bar walker) and will still probley go for whitecross. I got lured into just being excited by fresh faces again, but the wondered why we didn't even try to push for a key defender or two (beyond astbury), even if only for depth.

All in all given this factor, the fact we lost 3 very players and got a lot of unproven/ average players in return a 'C' seems about right, however - I'm content the club did all they could with what was available and I am happy. I am excited about our team and feel the club did well enough to keep the faith in what were building.

I just fear another year of pain when it dawns on us early in the season "oh yeah we have no experienced keys at either end of the ground, we are screwed" and the reality of our plight sets In - I'll be wondering why we have bought in 9 midfielders and one bigger body over 2 years again, no doubt, but it's all fun and games.

Yeah that's how I feel,
If we had of been able to fit in Astbury then it would have lifted us to a B rating I reckon. Unfortunately KP players don't grow on trees so we will have to be patient for our young guys to mature

 

[lions27]

Forward set up looks far more stable with Walker in it IMO. Will hopefully free up freeman (no pun) and Mcstay if Walker can take the best defender and still kick around 30-35 goals.

I haven't seen much of Walker, is it likely that he can kick 30+?

 

[Mr Ripper]

Wrong thread

 

[Sanchez365]

Soli

Totally agree. Well stated. I am extremely upset. We need experienced people ,Yes , but we need these people to be passionate and loyal Lions fans. So we don't get screwed!!!

Aish pick 7 . Eddie is laughing at us!!!!!!!Mocking us !!!! Appalling. Leigh Matthews summed it perfectly. "We don't deserve a priority pick".Leigh we need people, that actually give a ....

FRUSTRATED.......

Solid melt. 7.5/10

 

[acuguy]

I think our trade period was excellent. My reasons below

Luenberger- we had no say in pick 39 but to be honest, the fact we no longer are pinning our hopes on a butter soft potential ruckman who cannot mark the football is one less disappointment to worry about.

Redden- pick 17 was good, it was sad to see Reddo go but his last 2 seasons have been very poor- no impact with footy, struggled to find his own ball

Aish- dud, can't run, can't jump, doesn't want to be here, no loss for us.


I love the what we have done with our recruiting-

1. we got blokes who want to come to us for opportunity and in the right age bracket.
2. we went and recruited some bulls in Bell and Jansen, hard at it big bodied mid forwards - they will bring a different level of intensity at the footy
3. I have always liked Bastinac and understand where the squeeze went on him at north, he is an inside worker, they have Swallow, Cunnington and Ziebell fulfilling these roles, Basta has a 40 plus possession game in the AFL, not many players can say that. We need another accumulator with Rocky
4. I believe the trading in Bastinac, Bell and Jansen is as much about finding players that can win their own footy at the clearance and hopefully that helps Beams, Christensen and Zorko win more footy on the outside.
5. Walker will be a serious player, with Freeman, McStay and Schache we will be able to put our key forward future to bed over the next 10 years
6. We got enough points to get Keays and Hipwood (I still think hipwood could be the best player from his draft)

 

[T Rick]

I think our trade period was excellent. My reasons below

Luenberger- we had no say in pick 39 but to be honest, the fact we no longer are pinning our hopes on a butter soft potential ruckman who cannot mark the football is one less disappointment to worry about.

Redden- pick 17 was good, it was sad to see Reddo go but his last 2 seasons have been very poor- no impact with footy, struggled to find his own ball

Aish- dud, can't run, can't jump, doesn't want to be here, no loss for us.


I love the what we have done with our recruiting-

1. we got blokes who want to come to us for opportunity and in the right age bracket.
2. we went and recruited some bulls in Bell and Jansen, hard at it big bodied mid forwards - they will bring a different level of intensity at the footy
3. I have always liked Bastinac and understand where the squeeze went on him at north, he is an inside worker, they have Swallow, Cunnington and Ziebell fulfilling these roles, Basta has a 40 plus possession game in the AFL, not many players can say that. We need another accumulator with Rocky
4. I believe the trading in Bastinac, Bell and Jansen is as much about finding players that can win their own footy at the clearance and hopefully that helps Beams, Christensen and Zorko win more footy on the outside.
5. Walker will be a serious player, with Freeman, McStay and Schache we will be able to put our key forward future to bed over the next 10 years
6. We got enough points to get Keays and Hipwood (I still think hipwood could be the best player from his draft)

Love your analysis Acuguy - thanks for thinking it through!

 

[tiltraise]

Going into this trade period it seemed to me your goals were as follows

A/ Get some developed talent in the right age group to help offset losses of those who were leaving/retiring who are keen to commit to the club long term.

In: Bastinac, Bell, Walker + Jansen

Tick

B/ Ensure you have enough points to aquire your academy lads.

Tick

C/ Improve your 2016 position for both trade + potential academy selection.

In: 2016 StK 2nd round + 2016 NM 3rd round

Tick

 

[BrisVegasDru]

Well I am a lurker that hasn't posted for at least 18 months, but enjoy reading what a lot of you have to say and wonder how old some of the other constantly negative types are.

I believe we have made the best of the hand we have been dealt and believe Leuy was of no real use to us as long as Stef was fit and well, Redden had seemingly stagnated and Aish who I have grown to dislike immensely was already my least favourite player of those we drafted two years ago.

Hoping we get our 3 main draft priorities and anything else is just icing the cake.. Can't wait for the draft.

 

[Helicon1]

38 39 40 41 42 = 2147 pts
Other clubs offer up picks 10 + 12 for Keays and Hipwood = 2663
We match with 2130 pts ( i.e.. 2663 takeaway Academy 20% discount of 533 = 2130)
Therefore our 38 39 40 41 42 roughly = other clubs offer at 10 + 12 ...simple.

As someone pointer out earlier, these picks will also move up 4 spots, with GWS and Sydney having picks tied to academy players before us.
38-42 will/could end up being 34-38.
542, 522, 502, 483, 465 = 2514 + 20% = 503 = 3017
enough for pick 8&9

Think the doggies trading their pick into the 20's helps us also as I feel they would have bid on Hipwood. Carlton may bid on him too, but i hope they go for an actual forward not a swingman.

 

[BrizzyBandit]

Ok so my official view.

The C rating was way off and here's why.

1) We lost Leuey; but only because he didn't have a spot in our 22 any longer. Can't play forward... Isn't as good as Martin..... So what did we lose here?? A bit of fragile depth. No big loss (I'll miss him but clinically speaking no loss)

2) We lost Redden. Ok he's been a solid player, but definitely been on the fringe of our best 22 each week this year. Maybe injury related, maybe the passion had gone but a B grade talent at best and we got pick 17 for him. We showed him the respect he deserved with a quick trade.

3) Aish was a public relations loss but at this stage little else.
We traded him for Bastinac who is at this stage clearly the better player and a 121 game proven performer. He is A grade when played inside and on top of his game. He's also only 24 and has a long future at the Lions.
We also got more points for this year.
We also got a future second rounder strengthening our position next year.
We also replaced the future 3rd round selection we traded making Walker and Jansen completely free!!!
With a self entitled brat refusing to play anywhere other than the biggest wealthiest club in the land I give Scwabby and A+ for that deal.

Bell for pick 21
Beast of a player who will add hurt and some desperately needed hardness to our team.

Walker is a more than serviceable KPF and can support in the ruck. Desperately needed big body from a great system.
Jansen a big bodied midfielder with strong potential again from a good system

Because Of Schwaby's trading we'll finish 2015 off with:

Bastinac, Walker, Bell, Jansen, Keays, Hipwood, and hopefully Chol and Whitecross coming in + Allison being more attainable next year!!

when you consider we're an interstate club on the bottom of the ladder I give Schwaby and the team an A-.

 

[charles202]

I think we did about as well as we could with what we had, hard to judge until post draft.

Redden trade I think was fair, think we did the right thing by him by getting the deal done fast to his preferred. I also like the msg it sends to the playing group, you do right by us we will to you.

Leuy compo put us behind the game, after that I think we were chasing draft points...and other teams knew it.

Bell I think we overpaid slightly, but I am happy to pay a premium to qld players home so no big deal.

Basti again I think we overpaid, but I think he will be in for a big year playing as an inside mid, which will also help release Rich more to the outside.

Jansen really don't know much about him but we essentially gave up nothing

Walker again basically got for free and I think he will have the biggest impact of all the trades next year, seems like the perfect foil for Martin who needs the major ruck minutes to be dominate

Overall C+/B-

 

[winged1]

Happy with the trade period.

It did dawn on me at the gym as I was sitting there that - we bought in a bunch of mids again (bar walker) and will still probley go for whitecross. I got lured into just being excited by fresh faces again, but the wondered why we didn't even try to push for a key defender or two (beyond astbury), even if only for depth.

All in all given this factor, the fact we lost 3 very players and got a lot of unproven/ average players in return a 'C' seems about right, however - I'm content the club did all they could with what was available and I am happy. I am excited about our team and feel the club did well enough to keep the faith in what were building.

I just fear another year of pain when it dawns on us early in the season "oh yeah we have no experienced keys at either end of the ground, we are screwed" and the reality of our plight sets In - I'll be wondering why we have bought in 9 midfielders and one bigger body over 2 years again, no doubt, but it's all fun and games.

I suppose the thing with this is that everybody from a running back pocket through to a goal sneak is potentially a mid. Also growing up the best players tend to go the midfield, not many guys are a gun back pocket at 14 and get drafted, they are a mid who can play defensively and when going to a higher level get put down back.

Considering we have been so poor at contested possession (despite Robinson helping this) and clearance work the addition of Bastinac, Jansen and Bell (pinch hit through the middle) helps the balance of the side with Beams being able to play more outside and not have to get bashed every week. I think it will also help Rockies game. So maybe we have brought in role players, but successful sides have a lot of role players with a smattering of stars. I think with Beams, Hanley and Andrews we have some stars (I see Rocky more as an accumulator).

Walker is also somebody targeted as a Forward/Ruck a role we havent been able to fill in the last few years, if he plays his role our forward structure all of a sudden looks a lot better with Walker getting No 1 defender, Freeman 2, Close 3 and McStay swinging through defence and attack. However, the expectation needs to be set that getting the No 1 defender dont expect Walker to be dominating, but if he plays his role we will be a better side.

 

[LionKing]

38 39 40 41 42 = 2147 pts
Other clubs offer up picks 10 + 12 for Keays and Hipwood = 2663
We match with 2130 pts ( i.e.. 2663 takeaway Academy 20% discount of 533 = 2130)
Therefore our 38 39 40 41 42 roughly = other clubs offer at 10 + 12 ...simple.

Yep, its like saving and buying your favourite thing in the world with 5 cent pieces. At the end of the day it doesn't matter about the denominations as long as you have enough currency to purchase the item

 

[lukiuslion]

Going into this trade period it seemed to me your goals were as follows

A/ Get some developed talent in the right age group to help offset losses of those who were leaving/retiring who are keen to commit to the club long term.

In: Bastinac, Bell, Walker + Jansen

Tick

B/ Ensure you have enough points to aquire your academy lads.

Tick

C/ Improve your 2016 position for both trade + potential academy selection.

In: 2016 StK 2nd round + 2016 NM 3rd round

Tick

As I said generally happy - but this post ignores some vital criteria.I think you could easily add ony number of these criteria in, hence the C rating.

Bring in some Key Position talent to help both forward and back, areas in which we desperately lack?

Bring in a genuine Key Position, number 1 forward?

Bring in more A grade talent to improve the number of classy players on our list/ use cap space?

Go to the draft with 2 first round picks, minimum given the players we have leaving

Position ourselves to get maximum value out of FA compensation/ recruit Matthew Suckling

Get Absolute minimum first round/ or 2 second round picks for Aish, don't buckle for anything less

 

[lukiuslion]

I suppose the thing with this is that everybody from a running back pocket through to a goal sneak is potentially a mid. Also growing up the best players tend to go the midfield, not many guys are a gun back pocket at 14 and get drafted, they are a mid who can play defensively and when going to a higher level get put down back.

Considering we have been so poor at contested possession (despite Robinson helping this) and clearance work the addition of Bastinac, Jansen and Bell (pinch hit through the middle) helps the balance of the side with Beams being able to play more outside and not have to get bashed every week. I think it will also help Rockies game. So maybe we have brought in role players, but successful sides have a lot of role players with a smattering of stars. I think with Beams, Hanley and Andrews we have some stars (I see Rocky more as an accumulator).

Walker is also somebody targeted as a Forward/Ruck a role we havent been able to fill in the last few years, if he plays his role our forward structure all of a sudden looks a lot better with Walker getting No 1 defender, Freeman 2, Close 3 and McStay swinging through defence and attack. However, the expectation needs to be set that getting the No 1 defender dont expect Walker to be dominating, but if he plays his role we will be a better side.

Yeah I just think 1 maybe 2 Key defenders, of any skill level was vital, in addition to more mids. But as I said, I think this will become a common theme early next year "WHY DIDN'T WE GO FLAT STICK FOR SOME SIZE AGAIN!?" when our kids at either end are being put to the slaughter .. also with Walker, love the trade, but i am placing no expectation on him, we basically got him for a pick 60 if you include Jansens value, he is purely a 50/50 prospect IMO, may or may not do us any good. The feed back I am getting from Cats supporters is unanimously bad, lisle'eske.. so whilst HAPPY we at least gave it a crack, it was not the answer we were looking for. Hoping he can grow into a monster for us though, there is a chance it happens, he is equipped athletically to become one.

 

[notting18]

As I said generally happy - but this post ignores some vital criteria.I think you could easily add ony number of these criteria in, hence the C rating.

Bring in some Key Position talent to help both forward and back, areas in which we desperately lack?

Walker

Bring in a genuine Key Position, number 1 forward?

Who could we have brought in?!!

Bring in more A grade talent to improve the number of classy players on our list/ use cap space?

Who could we have brought in?!!

Go to the draft with 2 first round picks, minimum given the players we have leaving

We go to the draft with 3 first round picks - Schache, Hipwood and Keays

Position ourselves to get maximum value out of FA compensation/ recruit Matthew Suckling

Why?

Get Absolute minimum first round/ or 2 second round picks for Aish, don't buckle for anything less

We got exactly 2 secound round picks for Aish

 

[Tassie4ever]

Massive over reaction.

We didn't go back to square one with Aish like we had to with the GH5. The was LM's stance.

We got a 120 game inside player who at his best is A grade.... Or so says a 100 or so pages on the North board. He's been forced to play an outside roll which hasn't suited him.

In terms of pure footy we may actually be better off... Only time will tell if Aish truly makes it. We also gained additional trading points for our Academy players and further strengthened our position in next years draft.

Leigh's comments had their desired effect. If you leave our club prematurely you'd better hope we can properly replace you otherwise you're futures uncertain.

We replaced our future 3rd round pick that we traded for Walker and Jansen. Consider them free because of the Aish trade

People making black and white comments don't understand the complexities involved here.

You are of course entitled to your opinion. So am I.

I prefer to not get involved in the complexities of trading, drafting etc because as far as I can understand it only a nuclear physicist is equipped to come to grips with the process.

My black and white comments are confined to on-field success or otherwise. We haven't had any success recently. That's a fact.

Anyone can debate the merits of our recruiting strategies. There's no debate about our performances.

As to LM's comments having "... their desired effect". You've got to be joking. The only effect was to diminish his standing in the game. If you're going to make bald statements then you've got to be prepared to back them up. Swann is in the same position of course. I must admit I was completely taken in by what they both said. Stupidly, I actually thought they meant it.

 

[lukiuslion]

Bring in some Key Position talent to help both forward and back, areas in which we desperately lack?

Walker

Bring in a genuine Key Position, number 1 forward?

Who could we have brought in?!!

Bring in more A grade talent to improve the number of classy players on our list/ use cap space?

Who could we have brought in?!!

Go to the draft with 2 first round picks, minimum given the players we have leaving

We go to the draft with 3 first round picks - Schache, Hipwood and Keays

Position ourselves to get maximum value out of FA compensation/ recruit Matthew Suckling

Why?

Get Absolute minimum first round/ or 2 second round picks for Aish, don't buckle for anything less

We got exactly 2 secound round picks for Aish

Your'e missing the point of my post mate. I am not saying that I DEMAND these criteria be met, I am generally happy with the results of the trade period. I was saying, that I felt this post (and some others) only raised the questions that we got a good result in, whilst ignoring several others.

It doesen't matter what the answer to the criteria I raised are, they were areas for one reason (most valid) or another we couldn't satisfy.

We did well with what we had and what was available, but if you consider almost every major news outlet/ analyst has us losing out in the trade period and getting a C rating, the criteria I raised above will give a more balanced appraisal of why that might be.

 

[notting18]

Your'e missing the point of my post mate. I am not saying that I DEMAND these criteria be met, I am generally happy with the results of the trade period. I was saying, that I felt this post (and some others) only raised the questions that we got a good result in, whilst ignoring several others.

It doesen't matter what the answer to the criteria I raised are, they were areas for one reason (most valid) or another we couldn't satisfy.

We did well with what we had and what was available, but if you consider almost every major news outlet/ analyst has us losing out in the trade period and getting a C rating, the criteria I raised above will give a more balanced appraisal of why that might be.

To assess the trade period you need to use relevant criteria. The additional ones you raised are either fanciful or were ones that our recruiting team met.

The reason most of the media are giving us a C is that they struggle to understand how the system changed this year, are high draft pick obsessed and/or are factoring in retention issues without a full understanding.

 

[Cockliff38]

Get Absolute minimum first round/ or 2 second round picks for Aish, don't buckle for anything less

We got exactly 2 secound round picks for Aish

You could say we got a first round (the points for Keays or Hipwood) and second round pick next year (potentially the points for Rolls) in return for Aish.
Oh, and Ryan Bastinac