Strayan Politics - backward colonial hellhole or greatest country on Earth mate

[Del191229]

We have an international politics thread, and a general chat one, but nowhere we can tear each other apart over the issues of the day in this fine land of ours.

Good starter topic - the Robodebt Royal Commission.

A policy that had its genesis under Labor, went psychotic under the Coalition, and has now ended up with a Royal Commission recommending criminal charges.

‘Crude and cruel’ scheme: robodebt royal commission report recommends civil and criminal prosecutions

Recommendation of referrals included in ‘sealed chapter’ of 1,000-page report with findings handed to federal government and released publicly

www.theguardian.com

How did one of the richest societies humanity has ever known end up here ffs.

 

[shintemaster]

We have an international politics thread, and a general chat one, but nowhere we can tear each other apart over the issues of the day in this fine land of ours.

Good starter topic - the Robodebt Royal Commission.

A policy that had its genesis under Labor, went psychotic under the Coalition, and has now ended up with a Royal Commission recommending criminal charges.

‘Crude and cruel’ scheme: robodebt royal commission report recommends civil and criminal prosecutions

Recommendation of referrals included in ‘sealed chapter’ of 1,000-page report with findings handed to federal government and released publicly

www.theguardian.com

How did one of the richest societies humanity has ever known end up here ffs.

This RC along with the current PWC debacle will make for interesting times - it highlights what decades of debasement and hollowing of the public service has done to community protection. As much as the last Government has been a disgrace of corruption and grifting the public much of this attitude has been long term and bi partisan. The treatment of welfare recipients in my adult lifetime has fundamentally changed for the worse and it wasn't great to start with. This culture and the use of it for cheap political points has ultimately encouraged and enabled this.

 

[Del191229]

This RC along with the current PWC debacle will make for interesting times - it highlights what decades of debasement and hollowing of the public service has done to community protection. As much as the last Government has been a disgrace of corruption and grifting the public much of this attitude has been long term and bi partisan. The treatment of welfare recipients in my adult lifetime has fundamentally changed for the worse and it wasn't great to start with. This culture and the use of it for cheap political points has ultimately encouraged and enabled this.

This is it. There's bipartisan agreement on all the worst stuff - asylum policy, welfare abuse, frigging submarine boondoggles.

 

[ferball]

That's because both parties are owned by the people that extract wealth from our resources within paying what they should for them.

The worst stuff is all a result of the distraction campaign that gets dumped on the Australian people so the real questions don't get arksed.

Except the submarine debacle which is just a more advanced form of wealth extraction.

 

[Del191229]

Surely the Libs have to turf Morrison soon right

 

[Better Loosen Up]

We've really got to drop this whole colonial tag nonsense and the negativity surrounding it.

Lands have been conquered/ stolen from the beginning of time. Russia is even trying to do it today.

Thing is, our indigenous people would have been colonised by someone eventually. Lord help them if it happened to be the Spanish or the Chinese... they probably wouldn't even exist today if that were the case.

 

[Del191229]

We've really got to drop this whole colonial tag nonsense and the negativity surrounding it.

Lands have been conquered/ stolen from the beginning of time. Russia is even trying to do it today.

Thing is, our indigenous people would have been colonised by someone eventually. Lord help them if it happened to be the Spanish or the Chinese... they probably wouldn't even exist today if that were the case.

Yeah the Tasmanian indigenous people are so lucky they were conquered by the Brits ... they might have been genocided if it were someone else.

 

[Better Loosen Up]

Yeah the Tasmanian indigenous people are so lucky they were conquered by the Brits ... they might have been genocided if it were someone else.

How are the Mayan's and the Inca's going today?

 

[Del191229]

How are the Mayan's and the Inca's going today?

There's still tens of millions of people alive who are directly descended from the Inca etc, they were empires that fell, not complete genocide.

The Brits were as - more - brutal than any other imperial power.

FFS they were still happy to have artificial famines in India in 1940s to further imperial.

Personally I hate the fact that we the British monarchs head on our money and their flag on ours.

That said, we did have a referendum on it a while back and I don't feel so strongly I'm going to start shooting at the coppers.

 

[Better Loosen Up]

There's still tens of millions of people alive who are directly descended from the Inca etc, they were empires that fell, not complete genocide.

The Brits were as - more - brutal than any other imperial power.

FFS they were still happy to have artificial famines in India in 1940s to further imperial.

Personally I hate the fact that we the British monarchs head on our money and their flag on ours.

That said, we did have a referendum on it a while back and I don't feel so strongly I'm going to start shooting at the coppers.

It was pretty damn bloody close and for those that survived, they were forced to adopt Spanish culture. Nearly all of their writings, culture ect burned/ destroyed.

There has to come a point where we have to move on surely? We have achieved an awful lot to be proud of in such a short period of time as a country.

I don't agree with everything that happened 250 years ago but it was a very different time back then. People didn't think the same way we do these days. Why keep cutting yourself up over it?

 

[ferball]

It was pretty damn bloody close and for those that survived, they were forced to adopt Spanish culture. Nearly all of their writings, culture ect burned/ destroyed.

There has to come a point where we have to move on surely? We have achieved an awful lot to be proud of in such a short period of time as a country.

I don't agree with everything that happened 250 years ago but it was a very different time back then. People didn't think the same way we do these days. Why keep cutting yourself up over it?

I have a mate who spent their lives being hunted thru Western Qld with their family cos their dad was a drover who punched his boss one day. They were gonna kill the lot of them in revenge. That happened 50 years ago not 250. Five years ago there were no non indigenous kids in juvenile detention in the NT.

Anyway .... the country is still a colony only now all of the people who live here are getting ripped off by big corporations colonising our wealth. Well over 99% of them anyway.

You want to be proud of Australia?

Fix that (and ignore everything else) first.

 

[ferball]

How are the Mayan's and the Inca's going today?

The Mayan's are fine.

They walked away from their cities before the Spanish got there because they'd had enough of their ruling class. A fair chunk of the area inhabited by the Maya today (with their culture fairly intact) is a curated, cultivar environment full of food plants. Could be described as permaculture.

Because they weren't in cities and lived in some serious jungle the Spanish never really ****ed their culture over. The Mayans are one of the few peoples to contiinually rebel against and beat conquerers and even today the Zapatistas have strong Mayan ties.

 

[Better Loosen Up]

I have a mate who spent their lives being hunted thru Western Qld with their family cos their dad was a drover who punched his boss one day. They were gonna kill the lot of them in revenge. That happened 50 years ago not 250. Five years ago there were no non indigenous kids in juvenile detention in the NT.

Anyway .... the country is still a colony only now all of the people who live here are getting ripped off by big corporations colonising our wealth. Well over 99% of them anyway.

You want to be proud of Australia?

Fix that (and ignore everything else) first.

I am very proud of Australia. There is a hell of a lot to be proud about in terms of what we have achieved in a relatively short period of time.

Of course there are still indigenous issues we need to work through and I'm certainly not against finding ways to improve their lives.

If you wish to hate on our "colonial hellhole" of a country, that's up to you. I think it's pretty sad though. Looking back 50 years or 250 years is not very constructive. We need to continually move forward. Constantly dwelling on the past no matter how unsavoury it might have been, is only driving racial division and hate as far as i'm concerned.

 

[Better Loosen Up]

The Mayan's are fine.

They walked away from their cities before the Spanish got there because they'd had enough of their ruling class. A fair chunk of the area inhabited by the Maya today (with their culture fairly intact) is a curated, cultivar environment full of food plants. Could be described as permaculture.

Because they weren't in cities and lived in some serious jungle the Spanish never really ****ed their culture over. The Mayans are one of the few peoples to contiinually rebel against and beat conquerers and even today the Zapatistas have strong Mayan ties.

You clearly have no idea of Mayan history. Thanks for confirming.

 

[ferball]

I am very proud of Australia. There is a hell of a lot to be proud about in terms of what we have achieved in a relatively short period of time.

Of course there are still indigenous issues we need to work through and I'm certainly not against finding ways to improve their lives.

If you wish to hate on our "colonial hellhole" of a country, that's up to you. I think it's pretty sad though. Looking back 50 years or 250 years is not very constructive. We need to continually move forward. Constantly dwelling on the past no matter how unsavoury it might have been, is only driving racial division and hate as far as i'm concerned.

Ignore the indigenous issues for a minute.

We are a colony for foreign investors who extract wealth from this land and pay **** all for it.

Are you proud of that?

Then you're here on holiday and will **** off back to Europe when the quarry is empty.

 

[Liam Boy]

I feel like a lot of Australians aren't actually aware of just how horrific and brutal the process of colonisation was. This episode of Radio War Nerd is a good starter on the topic, it's full of stuff I certainly wasn't ever taught in school. gives you a new perspective on just how ****ing bad the behaviour of the colonists was.

Radio War Nerd EP247 — Australian Frontier Wars

Co-hosts Gary Brecher & Mark Ames

player.fm

anyway, I don't really see the point of going on about "we've got so much to be proud of" etc, it's just resting on your laurels instead of combatting the existing problems. I actually do think it's important to question that premise People who come to a discussion about the things this country does and has done wrong and insist instead that we're such a great country and you should be proud we're not spain/china/russia etc, often do so because they're trying to push a certain idea of history that whitewashes those atrocities. If we want to shed the "backward colonial hellhole" tag, there's actual work we have to do, otherwise we're just refusing to acknowledge history.

 

[shintemaster]

I am very proud of Australia. There is a hell of a lot to be proud about in terms of what we have achieved in a relatively short period of time.

Of course there are still indigenous issues we need to work through and I'm certainly not against finding ways to improve their lives.

If you wish to hate on our "colonial hellhole" of a country, that's up to you. I think it's pretty sad though. Looking back 50 years or 250 years is not very constructive. We need to continually move forward. Constantly dwelling on the past no matter how unsavoury it might have been, is only driving racial division and hate as far as i'm concerned.

It's not about hating on our country. It is the opposite - the saying about those who ignore the lessons of history comes to mind. Many want the best for our country and citizens and believe that this is achieved through understanding what we do well and poorly, along with what we did well and poorly.

 

[Del191229]

I am very proud of Australia. There is a hell of a lot to be proud about in terms of what we have achieved in a relatively short period of time.

Of course there are still indigenous issues we need to work through and I'm certainly not against finding ways to improve their lives.

If you wish to hate on our "colonial hellhole" of a country, that's up to you. I think it's pretty sad though. Looking back 50 years or 250 years is not very constructive. We need to continually move forward. Constantly dwelling on the past no matter how unsavoury it might have been, is only driving racial division and hate as far as i'm concerned.

So you agree we shuld cancel Australia Day and Anzac Day.

Interesing.

 

[Del191229]

We are a colony for foreign investors who extract wealth from this land and pay * all for it.

Are you proud of that?

I'm not sure many Australiands grasp just how badly we've been jibbed off the mineral wealth we stole off the First peoples.

Norway has a sovereign wealth fund that guarantees its prosperity for eternity off a few decades off North Sea oil and gas.

Even in the Gulf dictatorships the locals largely live cosseted lives with most of their bills paid from their oil.

We pay market rates for gas from Queensland and WA lolololol.

 

[ferball]

I'm not sure many Australiands grasp just how badly we've been jibbed off the mineral wealth we stole off the First peoples.

Norway has a sovereign wealth fund that guarantees its prosperity for eternity off a few decades off North Sea oil and gas.

Even in the Gulf dictatorships the locals largely live cosseted lives with most of their bills paid from their oil.

We pay market rates for gas from Queensland and WA lolololol.

In many ways it serves us right but ... ffs I guess that's what happens when you vote on the basis of who'll stop the boats and the big bad tax instead of your own best interests. (I guess that's one of the many ways it serves us right.)

 

[ferball]

We have nearly 2 billion barrels of oil reserves for example.

It would only last about 6 or 7 years I spose.

But natural gas - we have enough to last a long time and we also have the enough Uranium to make us independent and invasion free forever.

We have some of the strongest tidal currents in the world too if we really want a source of eternal "free" energy.

 

[koshari]

We have an international politics thread, and a general chat one, but nowhere we can tear each other apart over the issues of the day in this fine land of ours.

Good starter topic - the Robodebt Royal Commission.

A policy that had its genesis under Labor, went psychotic under the Coalition, and has now ended up with a Royal Commission recommending criminal charges.

‘Crude and cruel’ scheme: robodebt royal commission report recommends civil and criminal prosecutions

Recommendation of referrals included in ‘sealed chapter’ of 1,000-page report with findings handed to federal government and released publicly

www.theguardian.com

How did one of the richest societies humanity has ever known end up here ffs.

what about the syria is better than queensland thread?

Analysis - Syria is better than Queensland - official thread

Thread for comparisons between the two, with a definite preference for the Land of Al-Sham, home to the oldest continuously occupied city in the world, treasure trove of human history, the very cradle of civilisation. Over Queensland, home to the oldest continuously working stripper in the...

www.bigfooty.com

 

[koshari]

We have nearly 2 billion barrels of oil reserves for example.

It would only last about 6 or 7 years I spose.

But natural gas - we have enough to last a long time and we also have the enough Uranium to make us independent and invasion free forever.

We have some of the strongest tidal currents in the world too if we really want a source of eternal "free" energy.

not really free though as you need capital costs and continual maintenance.

 

[koshari]

I'm not sure many Australiands grasp just how badly we've been jibbed off the mineral wealth we stole off the First peoples.

iam just as sure few aussies know how much of this was in turn stolen again by multi nationals.

 

[koshari]

In many ways it serves us right but ... ffs I guess that's what happens when you vote on the basis of who'll stop the boats and the big bad tax instead of your own best interests. (I guess that's one of the many ways it serves us right.)

taxation and dishonesty go back to biblical times,

Matthew the apostle had been a dishonest tax collector driven by greed until Jesus Christ chose him as a disciple. Also called Levi, Matthew was not a stand-out character in the Bible