The 2nd Division Thread (proposal)
- Thread starter Colonial
- Start date
- Tagged users None
Sth Melb Hellas
Senior List
- Sep 28, 2009
- 195
- 232
- AFL Club
- Geelong
Don't get me wrong. Initially I was upset with the initial exclusion but this was coming for a long time. When Glory entered the league, every club had to up the ante. They were throwing some serious money at players, in some cases offering double their current salary. And Carlton to some degree in their short period. Parra Power and Northern Spirit add them to the list. As much as I hate Perth, the Glory template was a glimpse into what could occur.
I prefer tiered football, but it won't work here.
Last edited:
- Dec 22, 2009
- 67,793
- 42,305
- AFL Club
- Hawthorn
- Other Teams
- Matildas/Socceroos/LFC/MVFC/RCStrasbourg
2nd division will happen eventually. 2022? No chance. Unless you can get some billionairea to fund it.
- Dec 22, 2009
- 67,793
- 42,305
- AFL Club
- Hawthorn
- Other Teams
- Matildas/Socceroos/LFC/MVFC/RCStrasbourg
It was always gong to happen eventually but I suspect it will be some time before it actually kicks off. Maybe to start with a 14 team A League and 10 team A League Championship would be the way to go.
Personally I think the A-League has to link up with the NPL someway. Have A-League, A-Championship and A-League 1 then the numerous state leagues.
Also think lower divisions should be have a conference model to make sure costs aren't as expensive as what they might be. Imagine a 2nd tier FNQ team going to play Adelaide City on a Wednesday then flying back for a Saturday game.
My main issue is how are the clubs going to come about? Bring in South Melbourne/Wollongong Wolves/Auckland City or have more franchises?
- Dec 22, 2009
- 67,793
- 42,305
- AFL Club
- Hawthorn
- Other Teams
- Matildas/Socceroos/LFC/MVFC/RCStrasbourg
Yeah more than 2 divisions of professional football in Australia aint gonna happen until we have a population of 40m plus which is 100 years away.
Dont know how things would work if Perth or any NZ team was relegated into the 2nd div. Those away trips would be a lot for 2nd division sides.
Dont know how things would work if Perth or any NZ team was relegated into the 2nd div. Those away trips would be a lot for 2nd division sides.
I'd wager we need a 3rd division that serves as a stop gap between semi-pro and fully professional, similiar to the Conference in England. Otherwise, clubs that go through 2 relegations in 3-5 years could be seriously screwed by the massive drop off from the A-League to a state league (and in the case of the Nix and potentially others, NZ's national competition). 3 divisions isn't perfect but there needs to be serious consideration for this.
From what I've seen, we're projected to have a population of 35 to 38 million by 2050 which would be more than sufficient for 3 divisions.
It's why I think conferences are the way to go for the lower tiers so that travel isn't an issue. Otherwise a lot of clubs would be stretching it thin just trying to cover travel expenses every year.
- Dec 22, 2009
- 67,793
- 42,305
- AFL Club
- Hawthorn
- Other Teams
- Matildas/Socceroos/LFC/MVFC/RCStrasbourg
It depends on how big the second division will be in terms of exposure. If you can get average crowds of around the 10k mark then there's no problems with playing Perth & NZ teams away in a proposed second div comp.
I doubt crowds will be that big to start with as there will be a stigma about it being "2nd rate". The best solution IMO is the FA subsidizes travel to any possible NZ / Perth games for the first 5 years (they do this with FFA Cup already). It's highly likely that a Perth or a NZ side won't be relegated anyway.
Population wise IMO 40m would be an absolute minimum for 3 divisions. There are lots of other sports to compete with in Australia unlike other countries. 50m population probably more realistic for 3 divisions that can survive on their own. England has a population of 56m and this is enough to support 4 professional divisions despite football being the overly dominant sport.
I honestly can't see a 3rd professional division here in any of our lifetimes on this forum.
A state+territory conference system like the NBL1 might work well, and have the premiers from each state either promoted or playoff for promotion for the 2nd division.
Victoria+Tasmania, NSW+ACT, Queensland+NT, South Australia, Western Australia. Those five premiers can have a two match playoff against the bottom five from div2, or whack them all into two groups including the bottom five from div 2, and the top two from each group +best third place get promoted/stay up.
The promotion from div2 to div1 is tricky though. How would the smaller clubs cope paying for quality players, even with the salary cap? And with A-League clubs currently yo-yo-ing up and down the ladder from year to year, it would suck a bit that those clubs would get relegated when they would probably bounce back the following season anyway. But if div1 is expanded to include some lower clubs, and a bigger club still finishes in the relegation zone, well they probably deserve to leave the top comp for a few years!
With the new TV deal and access to view the FFA cup and lower tier clubs at the click of the button, I think I'm now less fearful of top tier clubs disappearing if they get relegated. Bring it on, healthier competitions and access for all.
Victoria+Tasmania, NSW+ACT, Queensland+NT, South Australia, Western Australia. Those five premiers can have a two match playoff against the bottom five from div2, or whack them all into two groups including the bottom five from div 2, and the top two from each group +best third place get promoted/stay up.
The promotion from div2 to div1 is tricky though. How would the smaller clubs cope paying for quality players, even with the salary cap? And with A-League clubs currently yo-yo-ing up and down the ladder from year to year, it would suck a bit that those clubs would get relegated when they would probably bounce back the following season anyway. But if div1 is expanded to include some lower clubs, and a bigger club still finishes in the relegation zone, well they probably deserve to leave the top comp for a few years!
With the new TV deal and access to view the FFA cup and lower tier clubs at the click of the button, I think I'm now less fearful of top tier clubs disappearing if they get relegated. Bring it on, healthier competitions and access for all.
SM
Bigfooty Legend
Yeah I think we need to see television coverage for a second tier for 5 or so years to build up some interest and support before integrating the two comps, because then as you say there should be less fears of A-League clubs disappearing in a second division.
Colonial
Premium Gold
- Apr 12, 2012
- 48,203
- 45,446
- AFL Club
- GWS
- Thread starter
- #114
Football Australia targets national second division for 2023
Football Australia is set to fund a national second division and a women’s FFA Cup with funds it collects from the A-leagues equity sale.
A national second division could be played by as early as 2023 with Football Australia set to invest in the establishment of a professional football competition to sit below the A-League.
The governing body of Australian football will receive a significant cash windfall as a result of the A-League equity sale to Silver Lake, worth close to $140 million for a 33.33 per cent share, and has set its sights on putting those funds towards a national second tier.
“The un-bundling [of the A-League from Football Australia’s control] has fundamentally transformed the way in which the game is managed, governed, and established a unique model which draws upon global best practice. One of the major benefits of this new model is that it creates opportunities for significant new investment and allows us to unlock capital not previously available,” Football Australia chief James Johnson said.
“This is important for the game because it means that funds that will flow from this transaction to Football Australia, can be invested into strategic initiatives to benefit the Australian football community at large, which may have been underfunded or not attracted investment in the past.”
Football Australia’s earnings from the sale are yet to be disclosed, but sources suggest they stand to collect just under five per cent of the figure, in the vicinity of $6 million. It’s a major boost to the coffers of an organisation previously strapped for cash and Football Australia will seek to immediately invest those funds into the establishment of at least two national football competitions.
The first will be a national men’s second tier, potentially bringing clubs to new markets not covered by A-League Men teams as well as existing National Premier League clubs and former National Soccer League teams. One proposal could include promotion and relegation with the state-based National Premier League competitions but not with the A-League for the immediate future.
“For Football Australia, this means that we can invest into initiatives such as the expansion of national competitions outside of A-Leagues, like a Women’s FFA Cup, and a national second tier,” Football Australia chief James Johnson said. “An important step for Australian football as we look to re-imagine and create world-class football products.”
Football Australia says it has undertaken significant planning for a national second tier competition and has identified a number of models of how it could operate. Senior sources suggest a start date of 2023 is already being targeted. The organisation has identified the second tier as a priority to improve player development with more pathways and a larger pool of professional players, bridge the gap between the semi-professional state leagues and the A-League while also expanding the footprint of the professional game across the country.
A white paper on a national second division was released in 2019 but highlighted concerns over expected costs. Semi-professional state clubs hopeful of entering the competition believed a $2.5 million annual budget would be required by each club. The Australian players’ union, The PFA, suggested clubs would need to budget for costs of $5.4 million each season.
The organisation will also look to create a national women’s knock-out cup competition to resemble the men’s FFA Cup, pitting A-League Women’s teams against semi-professional NPL and amateur sides.
Funds from the equity sale will also be set aside for Football Australia’s digital platforms, including the game’s registration and community football online portals.
“It will also allow us to prioritise and enhance the experience of our broad and diverse participation base through the digital optimisation and transformation of our community digital platforms, namely the participant registration and competition management system across the country,” Johnson said.
Meanwhile, a second A-League Men’s player has tested positive to COVID-19. The Newcastle Jets have not revealed the identity of the player, but confirmed a member of coach Arthur Papas’ squad became symptomatic on Monday and returned a positive PCR test on Tuesday.
All other players and football staffers have undergone testing, and at this stage, no others have reported symptoms or tested positive.
Socceroos defender and Sydney FC star Rhyan Grant tested positive last week, several days after they played out a 2-2 draw against the Jets.
An update on Newcastle’s scheduled A-League Men clash on Sunday against Macarthur FC will be provided in the next 24 hours, the club said in a statement.
No real news. Just that it's inching closer and the two options are a camping league or a home and away season for 12 sides.
www.ftbl.com.au
Second tier's a go but promotion-relegation must wait, says FA chief
Football Australia chief James Johnson has confirmed the long-anticipated national second tier is primed to sprout in 2023, whilst hinting it won’t initially be designed as a gateway to the A-League.
www.ftbl.com.au
- Dec 22, 2009
- 67,793
- 42,305
- AFL Club
- Hawthorn
- Other Teams
- Matildas/Socceroos/LFC/MVFC/RCStrasbourg
No real news. Just that it's inching closer and the two options are a camping league or a home and away season for 12 sides.
Second tier's a go but promotion-relegation must wait, says FA chief
Football Australia chief James Johnson has confirmed the long-anticipated national second tier is primed to sprout in 2023, whilst hinting it won’t initially be designed as a gateway to the A-League.
Jesus, 2023. Let's get a normal season of A League football under our belts first without restrictions or disruptions.
If this starts in 2023 someone will have to seriously underwrite it for a good 5 years or so.
- Dec 22, 2009
- 67,793
- 42,305
- AFL Club
- Hawthorn
- Other Teams
- Matildas/Socceroos/LFC/MVFC/RCStrasbourg
No chance unless they start slugging junior parents even more fees which is not what we want.
Have you seen how much the npl sides charge there junior sides?
Marconi and Apia are being bankrolled by leagues clubs, there would also be rich people bank rolling clubs as well, like is done at Victory (except on a larger scale), article last week talking about a board member of Olympic is loaning the club operational funds (wouldn't be enough for 2nd tier funding I would of thought)
- Dec 22, 2009
- 67,793
- 42,305
- AFL Club
- Hawthorn
- Other Teams
- Matildas/Socceroos/LFC/MVFC/RCStrasbourg
NPL clubs fund themselves by reaming parents in their NPL junior programs. It subsidises senior teams and their wages. Thats only going to worsen with a national second division unless some sugar daddy funds it which I doubt.
I would suspect more sugar daddy money will come in with there being a formalised second tier, as well as more corporate sponsors being available. I have a feeling a champions league may be the best first step in the process, which will bring up the standard of each state league. I'm not sure how many of the "big" nsl clubs would be able gain entry; south have been average at best, Olympic are having financial problems. (From murmurings I heard it does sound more like a proper second tier)
- Banned
- #123
What If the a league clubs paid for the players they steal instead of giving 3 grand for the best asset
- Dec 22, 2009
- 67,793
- 42,305
- AFL Club
- Hawthorn
- Other Teams
- Matildas/Socceroos/LFC/MVFC/RCStrasbourg
When clubs have players on amateur contracts and pay them in cash they have to accept this will happen.
NPL clubs have the option of giving them a professional contract but most dont because they want to save money. If they were on a professional contract they would be able to demand a transfer fee.
- Banned
- #125
So you **** over the nsl clubs by essentially killing them for franchise teams. Steal their players for years for nothing.
Then complain they are too poor to be in a 2nd division cause the a league is so stale it's dying.
A very cunning plan.
Similar threads
