Roast The Brownlow has no credibility left

[ITK]

Some massive melts on this board and last night's Brownlow board.

It's been a midfielders medal for some time. No surprise.

Umpires get some things right and some things wrong. No surprise.

Standout players in teams that win more than they lose go well. No surprise.

When there is more than one good player in a good team, they take votes from each other. No surprise.

Vote concentration has increased on favourites each year. Interesting, but not unfair, as it applies equally in a given year.

Cripps a very worthy winner, and a champion of the game.

 

[Inspecta Gadget]

Feel for Daicos. I dont think he will have another chance for a few years, especially with the pies on the slide.

Bont has to win one in the next couple of years. I think Tom Green and Serong ride the wave of being in top 4/6 sides and poll very heavily.

JHF polls very well and obviously LDU will be on the up as well.

I thought the votes were about right. Cripps was the best player comfortably this year.

Ladder position won't matter for Daicos if his team mates give nothing.

Patrick Cripps just got 45 votes in a team that finished 8th.

 

[dumb]

the changes in game style over the years has no doubt influenced voting.

the event is propped up by the circus that is the coverage. the aflca could be given the same amount of gravitas by similar coverage but it would need the afl and channel 7 to take the brownlow count out back and putting it down.

not to mention, the weighting that the red carpet and wag stuff has been given in more recent years is pure sponsorship. colgate camera? fashion brand comment on afl players? the brownlow has become little more than a vehicle for everyone involved to feather their nest.

 

[Seeds]

Some massive melts on this board and last night's Brownlow board.

It's been a midfielders medal for some time. No surprise.

Umpires get some things right and some things wrong. No surprise.

Standout players in teams that win more than they lose go well. No surprise.

When there is more than one good player in a good team, they take votes from each other. No surprise.

Vote concentration has increased on favourites each year. Interesting, but not unfair, as it applies equally in a given year.

Cripps a very worthy winner, and a champion of the game.

Dont think people are saying cripps aint a worth winner. The problem is how many votes he got (and daicos for that matter). It used to be that 25-30 votes would win a brownlow. 45 is just silly. He did not dominate the season like that.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

For all the sooking and melting and hot (lukewarm) takes, I will say - the umpires don’t get it wrong very often.

You can complain about the tally and your player not winning etc, but the winner is invariably either winning or coming very high up in all the other awards - AFLPA, AFLCA, media awards etc.

Cripps came second in both those awards.

For some of the sooking and hand-wringing you’d swear the umpires had picked some obscure battler to win it.

They get it right.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Dont think people are saying cripps aint a worth winner. The problem is how many votes he got (and daicos for that matter). It used to be that 25-30 votes would win a brownlow. 45 is just silly. He did not dominate the season like that.

Really though…. Who cares?

Recognition and valuing of players has changed and the top midfielders dominate. That’s not the umpires, that’s across the board by everybody.

 

[nineteen eighty]

I can't be bothered reading this entire thread but is anyone seriously begrudging Cripps winning the Brownlow? I get that the voting seems completely skewed these days and there's certainly discussion to be had around that aspect of the Brownlow. But Cripps for mine is absolutely a deserved winner.

 

[Seeds]

Really though…. Who cares?

Recognition and valuing of players has changed and the top midfielders dominate. That’s not the umpires, that’s across the board by everybody.

No it isnt across the board. There are games where daicos and cripps got votes because of their names and not because they were in the top 3 players on the ground. I.e games where the coaches and analysts gave the votes to other players. Clearly umpires want to give votes to players who they think are a chance at winning the medal. Either subconsciously or by directive.

 

[Inspecta Gadget]

Really though…. Who cares?

Recognition and valuing of players has changed and the top midfielders dominate. That’s not the umpires, that’s across the board by everybody.

It's always been a midfielders award. The fact that two players broke the record for most vosts in a season is indicative that the system has skewed far too much.

Ben Cousins won his brownlow with 20 votes. Give me prime Ben Cousins over cripps every day of the week.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

No it isnt across the board. There are games where daicos and cripps got votes because of their names and not because they were in the top 3 players on the ground. I.e games where the coaches and analysts gave the votes to other players. Clearly umpires want to give votes to players who they think are a chance at winning the medal. Either subconsciously or by directive.

This has always been the case. They’re probably biased toward superstars just like everybody else.

The point is that it’s the winner that counts, and even if the counts are higher, if they get the winner right then its not that important.

 

[_Mike_]

Feel for Daicos. I dont think he will have another chance for a few years, especially with the pies on the slide.

Bont has to win one in the next couple of years. I think Tom Green and Serong ride the wave of being in top 4/6 sides and poll very heavily.

JHF polls very well and obviously LDU will be on the up as well.

I thought the votes were about right. Cripps was the best player comfortably this year.

N Daicos will snare a Chas no doubt, Bont's window has closed and I dont see him winning one. Future winners will be the JHFs & Reids of the game.

I dont think anyone could argue Cripps didnt deserve it this season, yet once again the voting appears skewed and players that were getting 8-10 coaches votes, had a real impact on their game etc were not even registering votes with the 4 umpires on many occasions. Players getting votes after being subbed off paints a different picture on how the umps evaluate a players impact on the match

Does the voting criteria stand up to the pub test? do we even know what that is these days.

 

[Feerits Elf]

By why do you want umpires to be in a position where they feel they need to do that just for the sake of deciding best players?

Their only job should be interpreting and applying the rules correctly.

I never said they should feel they need to do it just for the sake of deciding best players.

It might be a hobby.

 

[dean33]

Round 22 Sydney vs Collingwood...

Nick Daicos: 25 Disposals @ 52% efficiency, 4 tackles, 230 metres gained, 0 goals, 3 score involvements - 2 Brownlow Votes
Chad Warner: 33 Disposals @ 76% efficiency, 3 tackles, 490 metres gained, 2 goals, 8 score involvements - 0 Brownlow Votes

It's a popularity contest.

It really is. There are only 1-2 players from each team that can win it now. At least give umpires stats after the game so they can make a more informed decision.

 

[Do the Dew]

Yeah I looked through the All Australian selection panel and the only three whose opinions I rate as independent and intelligent would be Buckley, Kane Cornes, and Pavlich. Don't respect the rest at all.

You really just put intelligent and Kane Cornes in the same sentence?

 

[Jeremias]

All Seinfeld related gif usage requires a membership card to the fan club.
Credentials or cease and desist required.

Cripps polled 3 votes despite 19 dispoals (7 kicks, 12 handballs), 0.0 score involvements and 72 Champion Data Ranking Points in Round 13 vs Essendon

Funny you mention round 13.

In the same round Nick Daicos polled 1 votes despite 15 disposals (6 kicks, 9 handballs), 1 goal, 3 score involvements vs Melbourne.

A game he was subbed out of.

Strange you don’t seem at all surprised or confused by that vote?

I hope you’ll be ok today. Go for a walk and clear your head.

 

[The Slitherin' Snake]

Whilst 45 votes is silly - this years Brownlow played out like most other Brownlows.

Standout midfielder in middling team dominates teams voting and wins.


It is how Crawford won it, Woewodin, Fyfe, Neale (maybe better than middling), Cooney, Mitchel, Danger, Priddis, Cotchin, Judd.

Stand out player in a middling team is the formula to win.

2008 - Dogs finished 3rd and made a prelim
2012 - Hawthorn finished on top and made the GF
2016 - Geelong finished 2nd and made a prelim

And in one of Fyfe's wins they finished on top.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

45 was a lot of votes however anyone who watches Carlton knows that in almost every game this year our captain was our best player.. the only exception is prob the GWS game where TDK was clearly BOG, but Cripps would still have been top 3.

It’s a midfielders award, but the mids are the best players. Especially in an era when players are not kicking 100+ goals.

If you want to pick a Brownlow with no credibility it’s last years, when Max Gawn

11

Max Gawn

Age

32

Ht

209cm

Wt

110kg

Pos.

Ruck

Career

Season

Last 5

D

14.1

4star

K

7.4

3star

HB

6.7

4star

CL

2.8

4star

HO

35.3

5star

D

18.5

4star

K

11.5

4star

HB

7.0

4star

CL

3.5

4star

HO

29.2

5star

D

8.4

3star

K

3.6

2star

HB

4.8

4star

CL

1.0

3star

HO

15.6

5star

was clearly the best player in the comp but didn’t get close.. This year Cripps, Daicos & Heeney have clearly been the top players, some would also have Bont but I disagree on that..

 

[Do the Dew]

2008 - Dogs finished 3rd and made a prelim
2012 - Hawthorn finished on top and made the GF
2016 - Geelong finished 2nd and made a prelim

And in one of Fyfe's wins they finished on top.

Also heavily favours stat-padders. Look no further than Naicos/Neale/Mitchell in recent years.

And before people accuse me of not judging my own, Cotchin (while having a great year in 2012), was nowhere near as influential on games as he was from 2017 onwards.

That's why every footy fan would take a Bont or Heeney over any other player. They may not get the individual accolades, but they'll get a lot more wins for their team.

 

[Petrie4PM]

OMG. Tristian XERRI 1 vote all season? COME ON. That has to be broken. He easily should have polled at LEAST 5 votes.

 

[The Slitherin' Snake]

Really though…. Who cares?

Recognition and valuing of players has changed and the top midfielders dominate. That’s not the umpires, that’s across the board by everybody.

But doesnt it feel like the umps are giving out votes to the favourites, rather than the favourites earning the votes? Its a little bit backwards. The media annoints someone as a brownlow fave and they get votes from the umps regardless of how they play

 

[Michaels]

Cripps is a gun player and definitely deserved to win the Brownlow, but 45 votes, wowee..

polled 2 votes in a game he was ranked the 28th best player on the ground and polled votes in games where his DE by foot was under 15%, these things happen every year in the count though. Lachie Neale

9

Lachie Neale

Age

31

Ht

178cm

Wt

84kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

27.0

5star

K

11.5

4star

HB

15.5

5star

M

4.0

4star

T

3.7

5star

CL

5.9

5star

D

28.3

5star

K

13.9

5star

HB

14.4

5star

M

4.6

4star

T

4.0

5star

CL

5.9

5star

D

12.0

3star

K

4.6

2star

HB

7.4

5star

M

2.0

3star

T

1.0

3star

CL

0.4

3star

jagged some votes last year that he shouldn't have either.

My solution would be to have an external panel that vote on it instead.

 

[Seadog]

OMG. Tristian XERRI 1 vote all season? COME ON. That has to be broken. He easily should have polled at LEAST 5 votes.

One more than Jeremy McGovern, club F+B and all Australian who didn't manage a vote.

 

[tugga]

What an irrelevant joke of an award this has become.
The first 18 placegetters were midfielders.
There is literally no point or prestige in this award.
Cripps is a deserving winner, but when a non-mid can't win the award, it's pointless.

 

[KnaveyBlue]

Give me prime Ben Cousins over cripps every day of the week.

If Cripps started every game loaded on German marching powder he'd poll 60 votes.

 

[nineteen eighty]

No it isnt across the board. There are games where daicos and cripps got votes because of their names and not because they were in the top 3 players on the ground. I.e games where the coaches and analysts gave the votes to other players. Clearly umpires want to give votes to players who they think are a chance at winning the medal. Either subconsciously or by directive.

That would be incredulous if that was in fact the case. Not putting it past the AFL to do something along these lines.