The Law The Death Penalty

[Gethelred]

Lawyers, prosecutors, jurors and more believed Marcellus Williams may have been innocent. Missouri executed him anyway

The 55-year-old was sentenced to death in 2001 for killing Felicia Gayle, a former newspaper reporter found dead in her gated community home.

www.google.com

Is it ever right? Is it ever worth the risk of killing an innocent person? Are there grounds by which you would be willing to move ahead with it?

Share your opinions. Standard board rules apply.

 

[Shane Sheridan]

Yes. Julian Knight, Bilal Skaf, Martin Bryant to name a few; anyone who fiddles kids.

 

[barreness]

Lawyers, prosecutors, jurors and more believed Marcellus Williams may have been innocent. Missouri executed him anyway

The 55-year-old was sentenced to death in 2001 for killing Felicia Gayle, a former newspaper reporter found dead in her gated community home.

www.google.com

Is it ever right? Is it ever worth the risk of killing an innocent person? Are there grounds by which you would be willing to move ahead with it?

Share your opinions. Standard board rules apply.

Death conviction on hearsay, others dna on the knife. I hope there's more circumstantial evidence putting him there. Incompetent/kangaroo courts are the main reason for no death penalty

and looked at the seeing eye dog.
And then at twenty seven eight-by-ten colour glossy pictures with circles
And arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one and began to cry,
'Cause Obie came to the realization that it was a typical case of American
Blind justice, and there wasn't nothing he could do about it

 

[IlovethePies]

The capitalist state never has any right, moral or political, to take the life of any citizen.
The capitalist state presides over the debased cultural and political atmosphere and the grotesque levels of social inequality which spawn every kind of sociopathic behaviour.
Finally, there is no doubt that executions of innocent people are taking place in the US. Marcellus Williams is one more.

The state murder of Marcellus Williams and the fight to abolish the death penalty

The continued existence of the death penalty in the United States is yet another confirmation of the criminality and violence of the capitalist political and economic system, which oozes filth out of every pore.

www.wsws.org

 

[EagleMan87]

The capitalist state never has any right, moral or political, to take the life of any citizen.
The capitalist state presides over the debased cultural and political atmosphere and the grotesque levels of social inequality which spawn every kind of sociopathic behaviour.
Finally, there is no doubt that executions of innocent people are taking place in the US. Marcellus Williams is one more.

The state murder of Marcellus Williams and the fight to abolish the death penalty

The continued existence of the death penalty in the United States is yet another confirmation of the criminality and violence of the capitalist political and economic system, which oozes filth out of every pore.

www.wsws.org

Why not just say 'the state'? Do you think the 'socialist state' has that right?

 

[IlovethePies]

Why not just say 'the state'? Do you think the 'socialist state' has that right?

No socialist state exists, so there is no point in using the word socialist.

The use of the word highlights that the state protects capitalism, and fundamentally this is the source of such barbaric institutions as the death penalty.

 

[EagleMan87]

No socialist state exists, so there is no point in using the word socialist.

The use of the word highlights that the state protects capitalism, and fundamentally this is the source of such barbaric institutions as the death penalty.

Do you believe there have been no socialist states in history?

 

[CM86]

Lawyers, prosecutors, jurors and more believed Marcellus Williams may have been innocent. Missouri executed him anyway

The 55-year-old was sentenced to death in 2001 for killing Felicia Gayle, a former newspaper reporter found dead in her gated community home.

www.google.com

Is it ever right? Is it ever worth the risk of killing an innocent person? Are there grounds by which you would be willing to move ahead with it?

Share your opinions. Standard board rules apply.

Thanks for making this.


I've never seen a good argument for the death penalty, that doesn't end up in some inner -base- need/desire for revenge.
It's often a nurtured reaction. And there's often an element of entertainment attached to it.

I support rehabilitation for the overwhelming number of people who break the law.
For the very few historically who have committed crimes so egregious that they will always be a danger to society, I support locking them away from society for the rest of that persons life, with ongoing evaluation.


When I was very young I remember hearing about a person who was found innocent after they had already been killed due to the death penalty.
That for me was enough for me to start opposing it.
My position has only solidified since then.

It also mainly targets lower-socioeconomic groups. But that steps more into legal systems etc.

 

[CM86]

The capitalist state never has any right, moral or political, to take the life of any citizen.
The capitalist state presides over the debased cultural and political atmosphere and the grotesque levels of social inequality which spawn every kind of sociopathic behaviour.
Finally, there is no doubt that executions of innocent people are taking place in the US. Marcellus Williams is one more.

The state murder of Marcellus Williams and the fight to abolish the death penalty

The continued existence of the death penalty in the United States is yet another confirmation of the criminality and violence of the capitalist political and economic system, which oozes filth out of every pore.

www.wsws.org

This post makes me think you're purely on this forum to push an agenda.
I'll try to explain why.

1.5k posts in around a decade.
Your post has almost no connection to the OP or the thread topic.
It's about your opposition to 'capitalist state', rather than any thoughts about the death penalty.
You've clearly not tested your absolute statements beyond an initial thought.

And finally, it seems you used the entire thing just to promote this WSWS agenda 'news' site. As if it's new information, when not only is it the story used in the OP by Gethelred, it even uses the same photo as the URL display on this forum.




So as you've not actually engaged with the topic.
And you've just seemed to use it to push this strange agenda, and promote the WSWS.

What do you feel is a fair view I or other posters should take from you in this thread?​

 

[IlovethePies]

Do you believe there have been no socialist states in history?

The Russian Revolution established the first ever workers' state. However that was not socialism. Socialism means a world planned economy where all production processes are integrated internationally on the basis of social need, and not profit.

When the Bolsheviks took power in October 1917, they based their actions on the perspective of world socialist revolution. Any conception that socialism could be built in one country, was anathema to them. Lenin often explained that when the working class overthrew the Kerensky capitalist government, this was the chain of imperialism breaking at the weakest link.

But socialism would only be established when the socialist revolution had spread across the entire globe

Socialism means a higher stage of civilisation than capitalism. Socialism requires the use of the advanced technology and productive capacities of global capitalism, but utilised on the basis of what society needs, not the private profit dictates of a financial oligarchy.

So no, socialism has never existed because to do so it requires the complete abolition of the nation state system by the working class led by an international revolutionary party based on the program of world socialist revolution.

 

[IlovethePies]

This post makes me think you're purely on this forum to push an agenda.
I'll try to explain why.

1.5k posts in around a decade.
Your post has almost no connection to the OP or the thread topic.
It's about your opposition to 'capitalist state', rather than any thoughts about the death penalty.
You've clearly not tested your absolute statements beyond an initial thought.

And finally, it seems you used the entire thing just to promote this WSWS agenda 'news' site. As if it's new information, when not only is it the story used in the OP by Gethelred, it even uses the same photo as the URL display on this forum.

View attachment 2123419View attachment 2123420


So as you've not actually engaged with the topic.
And you've just seemed to use it to push this strange agenda, and promote the WSWS.

What do you feel is a fair view I or other posters should take from you in this thread?​

People ask me questions, and I answer them.
Their questions stray away from the thread topic.
I simply forget that the thread is about one single topic, and that the constraints are to retain relevance to this topic because I am interested in answering their questions.

I have been a long member of BF, and never posted much. Only recently did I start, basically because I was only sporadically posting on footy topics, and only relatively recently have come to realise that there were other threads.

An "agenda" ? My view of the world is based on socialist ideology and the understanding that the class struggle is what drives historical events. I post what I believe to be true, and almost always collides with the view of others on this site.

I also often quote from the wsws, because this website is committed to analysing reality from the standpoint of the interests of the international working class. The international working class is the only social force which has a class interest at all times in exposing the truth, that is why the wsws is my primary source.

The articles I post from wsws I only do so because I think they are very enlightening about the topic under discussion.

I don't believe there is anything like a "sinister agenda" in what I have written above.

I made clear my opposition to capital punishment, and my reasons for opposing it.

Often the word "agenda" gets thrown around in relation to an analysis of events that contradicts the majority viewpoint. It is generally speaking, used in an antidemocratic spirit.

What do I think you should take from my posts here?

I would hope that there might be some who are interested in views that challenge the status quo, and approach these views with an open mind. Also yes, I think anyone with such an open attitude would benefit from considering the analysis offered on the wsws.

 

[CM86]

People ask me questions, and I answer them.
Their questions stray away from the thread topic.
I simply forget that the thread is about one single topic, and that the constraints are to retain relevance to this topic because I am interested in answering their questions.

I have been a long member of BF, and never posted much. Only recently did I start, basically because I was only sporadically posting on footy topics, and only relatively recently have come to realise that there were other threads.

An "agenda" ? My view of the world is based on socialist ideology and the understanding that the class struggle is what drives historical events. I post what I believe to be true, and almost always collides with the view of others on this site.

I also often quote from the wsws, because this website is committed to analysing reality from the standpoint of the interests of the international working class. The international working class is the only social force which has a class interest at all times in exposing the truth, that is why the wsws is my primary source.

The articles I post from wsws I only do so because I think they are very enlightening about the topic under discussion.

I don't believe there is anything like a "sinister agenda" in what I have written above.

I made clear my opposition to capital punishment, and my reasons for opposing it.

Often the word "agenda" gets thrown around in relation to an analysis of events that contradicts the majority viewpoint. It is generally speaking, used in an antidemocratic spirit.

What do I think you should take from my posts here?

I would hope that there might be some who are interested in views that challenge the status quo, and approach these views with an open mind. Also yes, I think anyone with such an open attitude would benefit from considering the analysis offered on the wsws.

OK.

Your reply is just deliberately creating distance from my post.
It's dishonest.

If you'd like to discuss socialism, please tag me in the appropriate thread that you're having that discussion.
Unless you're just pushing these 'socialist vs capitalist' positions in as many threads as possible, regardless of the topic.

I get the impression that you may not actually have a solid concept of how a socialist society would exist.
I fear that your positions on socialism and anti-capitalism will mostly be founded in some kind of pro-Russia, anti-NATO stance.
And there won't be much depth in your ideal socialist society.


If all of your positions end up leading to reducing support for the progressive sides of our systems, with 'progressive stances' that contradict themselves, then I wouldn't believe you support socialism, I'd believe you'd be using 'socialist' as a proxy to support Putin's invasion.



Happy to be proven wrong in the appropriate thread.

 

[IlovethePies]

OK.

Your reply is just deliberately creating distance from my post.
It's dishonest.

If you'd like to discuss socialism, please tag me in the appropriate thread that you're having that discussion.

I get the impression that you may not actually have a solid concept of how a socialist society would exist.
I fear that your positions on socialism and anti-capitalism will mostly be founded in some kind of pro-Russia, anti-NATO stance.
And there won't be much depth in your ideal socialist society.


If all of your positions end up leading to reducing support for the progressive sides of our systems, with 'progressive stances' that contradict themselves, then I wouldn't believe you support socialism, I'd believe you'd be using socialist as a proxy to support Putin's invasion.



Happy to be proven wrong in the appropriate thread.

I am not sure in what way I am distancing myself from your post, nor how I could have answered any more openly.

You make accusations without any basis whatsoever.

What does this even mean:
quote from you:
""If all of your positions end up leading to reducing support for the progressive sides of our systems, with 'progressive stances' that contradict themselves, the n I wouldn't believe you support socialism, I'd believe you'd be using socialist as a proxy to support Putin's invasion."

To the extent I understand anything about what this actually means, it ends up (like 99% of what everyone else says on this forum) that I support Putin.

This just reflects, unfortunately, a sad reality: that the media has conditioned the population to such an extent that any analysis that seeks to explain this conflict in a way that conflicts with the official narrative must be, by definition, pro-Putin.

 

[CM86]

I am not sure in what way I am distancing myself from your post, nor how I could have answered any more openly.

You make accusations without any basis whatsoever.

What does this even mean:
quote from you:
""If all of your positions end up leading to reducing support for the progressive sides of our systems, with 'progressive stances' that contradict themselves, the n I wouldn't believe you support socialism, I'd believe you'd be using socialist as a proxy to support Putin's invasion."

To the extent I understand anything about what this actually means, it ends up (like 99% of what everyone else says on this forum) that I support Putin.

This just reflects, unfortunately, a sad reality: that the media has conditioned the population to such an extent that any analysis that seeks to explain this conflict in a way that conflicts with the official narrative must be, by definition, pro-Putin.

OK. I made a thread.

Society/Culture - Can a purely socialist society exist?

In broad terms. Is it possible to actually have a socialist society? How would it function? As all we have ever known and lived within, is a mostly capitalist society. Even if many of the socialist aspects are the things we most take for granted. Are we able to actually envisage what a purely...

www.bigfooty.com

Also, there's this forum as well.

Conspiracies

The Tinfoil Millinery

www.bigfooty.com

 

[dumb]

against it. also corporal punishment.
i think a lot about personal principles and how we reconcile topics, justification of punching people like nazis and blasé attitudes towards others suffering violence. and how rubbery and internally inconsistent we really are.

i feel inconsistent being pro-abortion but anti-death penalty. i suppose my line is drawn upon my flimsy understanding of human consciousness. of course people note the overlap of pro-life, pro-death penalty, pro-gun. how ambivalent people can be when others are dying in a hail of bullets, or by lethal injection, and how much effort goes into preventing the deaths of some but not others.

i agree that murderers (one example) forfeit something, at the least their time. i haven't formed an opinion on something like penitentiary servitude, ie for manufacturing purposes. it would at least give them some meaning.

 

[ferball]

Yes. Julian Knight, Bilal Skaf, Martin Bryant to name a few; anyone who fiddles kids.

Kill them yourself then. Don't do it in my name.

 

[rank and file]

Nitrogen hypoxia seems a pretty rough way to go,surprised they don't just give them a good dose of fentanyl.
Shouldn't be to hard to source in Alabama.