The elephant in the room

[The J Dog]

Obviously we all love the guy, and we want to see him succeed more than anything, but is it time to at least start asking some questions and figure out some ways to help him?

In the same way that Generation Y has never seen a recession, our coach has never had to endure a football downturn as an assistant or head coach. As a player the Lions went down from being premiers, so it was a transition, but he never experienced a period of bad performances from a team with high expectations as we have built this year.

So here he is in a tough bind, and to make matters worse he has to manage the Fevola media circus and on-field performances, which is arguably as tough as what Leigh had to handle with Aka.

According to the club website, the (only) two assistant coaches are Adrian Fletcher and Jade Rawlings - one of the few AFL assistants even younger than Voss. Old hands in Craig and Wayne Brittain are gone, and former football manager Gubby Allen hasn't been replaced from what I can see here on the club website http://www.lions.com.au/football operations staff/tabid/11533/default.aspx

I think Vossy has shown he's no Tony Shaw when it comes to coaching, but it's time the club gave him some more support and brought in an experienced assistant to help out and mentor him, even if he tries to oppose the move.

Otherwise this situation could end up like Tim Watson at St Kilda where a coach with no experience but great potential gets wasted.

 

[Dylan12]

I think Vossy has shown he's no Tony Shaw when it comes to coaching, but it's time the club gave him some more support and brought in an experienced assistant to help out and mentor him, even if he tries to oppose the move.

He had Wayne Brittain last year, who coached Carlton. I'm no fan of Coach Voss, but he has made his bed with a lot of recent decisions of late, so he can lay in it. I just hope it doesn't turn into a trainwreck.

 

[Warwick]

Was going to address this after the game.

Brittain was a brilliant tactician. To replace him with Richmond mugs in Rawlings and McRae was perhaps our biggest blunder of the off season (big call considering).

We have absolutely no structure down back - our kick ins are almost costing us games FFS.

Our midfield is appalling.

Blame must rest on our assistants as well as the head honcho.

Time to get in some smart assistants. Laidley would have been a huge coup.

 

[notting18]

I am almost certain that the fact our Football Department budget has been slashed has something to do with this...

 

[DeZi]

Obviously we all love the guy, and we want to see him succeed more than anything, but is it time to at least start asking some questions and figure out some ways to help him?

In the same way that Generation Y has never seen a recession, our coach has never had to endure a football downturn as an assistant or head coach. As a player the Lions went down from being premiers, so it was a transition, but he never experienced a period of bad performances from a team with high expectations as we have built this year.

So here he is in a tough bind, and to make matters worse he has to manage the Fevola media circus and on-field performances, which is arguably as tough as what Leigh had to handle with Aka.

According to the club website, the (only) two assistant coaches are Adrian Fletcher and Jade Rawlings - one of the few AFL assistants even younger than Voss. Old hands in Craig and Wayne Brittain are gone, and former football manager Gubby Allen hasn't been replaced from what I can see here on the club website http://www.lions.com.au/football operations staff/tabid/11533/default.aspx

I think Vossy has shown he's no Tony Shaw when it comes to coaching, but it's time the club gave him some more support and brought in an experienced assistant to help out and mentor him, even if he tries to oppose the move.

Otherwise this situation could end up like Tim Watson at St Kilda where a coach with no experience but great potential gets wasted.

Not trolling here but I'm sure Voss had a huge part in getting Fevola to Brisbane knowing of his off-field issues...Can't really expect Fevola to straighten up after all the years Carlton gave him

The best thing for Brisbane would of been if Leigh stuck on to mentor Vossy and help him in transition

 

[Last of the Roys]

Not exactly the point of the thread, but Craig Lambert is still there.

However, after the ongoing year after year output of our midfield - maybe he shouldn't be.

 

[Jubair]

Otherwise this situation could end up like Tim Watson at St Kilda where a coach with no experience but great potential gets wasted.

Everyone always compares the situation to what Tim Watson had at St Kilda.

In Robert Harvey's book, he says that Watson inherited a list that was always heading south, no matter how good Watson was - he wasnt able to turn a corner with the list that he had.

Compare to Voss, he inherited a young list with a big scope for improvement.

 

[Yippyio]

For mine, today was an enormously dark day for Voss as Coach. Purely because of this lingering Brown Debacle. Whether or not he will make a successful coach long term is another debate, but at the moment he looks like a fool.

 

[guzroo]

Voss isnt the one to blame, a few of the players need to be more accountable for their own games especially when we miss goals from infront, turn the football over, kick into the 50 poorly and dont run hard enough. still loosing a guy like wayne brittian doesnt help, when he was at carlton he would do a large majority of the game day stuff for david parkin.

 

[The Flying Belgian]

It's hard to gauge where the problem lies. The players look lazy and lethargic and the gameplan is one-dimensional. Really, though, it lies with the coach.

If anyone's watching the replay, I noted with 7:06 on the clock, a ruched kick into our forward pocket. The Crows players were srpinting ahead of our blokes to get the footy.

Where's the urgency, where's the flair? Have these things been coached out of a decent portion of our group by Matthews. Sure it worked 10 years ago, but to win nowadays you need to show a bit of daring do.

I've said for ages that we have an overall dumb list - no football brains. Theres maybe 5 or 6 guys who could carry that title. Not only that, we're poorly drilled.

So the way this season's gone isn't really a surprise to me. In fact I'm surprised we've won 4 games!

But Voss must take responsibility for the trading/drafting of mature-age guys. Maguire has been heroic, but is punching above his weight. Raines is like Tom Cruise - looks great when surrounded by a well-performing ensemble cast, but gets found out when he has to step up to the mark. Buchanan is embarassing. Fevola, well, he may be kicking goals but I still fear we lost of that whole business. Staker's been serviciable, but doesn't really belong at top level.

I was never in faavour of the way he was appointed. Seemed like another case of jobs for the boys which is becoming a bit of a theme.

 

[MacMum]

Was going to address this after the game.

Brittain was a brilliant tactician. To replace him with Richmond mugs in Rawlings and McRae was perhaps our biggest blunder of the off season (big call considering).

We have absolutely no structure down back - our kick ins are almost costing us games FFS.

Our midfield is appalling.

Blame must rest on our assistants as well as the head honcho.

Time to get in some smart assistants. Laidley would have been a huge coup.

Think I read yesterday, that Nigel Lappin will be free soon...Richmond duds have no place in our club....they bring nothing of a positive, winning attitude with them..

 

[Warwick]

Think I read yesterday, that Nigel Lappin will be free soon...Richmond duds have no place in our club....they bring nothing of a positive, winning attitude with them..

We have to start looking at the best prospect no matter who they are.

If Lappin is the best option - than offer him a contract. But don't offer him one just because he is a favourite son. McRae should not be anywhere near our club at the moment if he was judged on past performances. He was in charge of development at Richmond FFS.

Head of Richmond's development.
Fremantle's song writer.
Brisbane's jumper design guru.

Probably the three men from the AFL who should be sent to live in the ocean.

There would be plenty of good options out there even if they don't have the sexy image of an ex-player. We must find a tactician and a decent midfield coach quick smart because Voss and co are struggling so much in those areas.

 

[Cousin Jed]

New tactic: Lions players leads to space instead of standing still.

Have I got the job?

 

[MacMum]

The reason I mention Nigel was because he has been a club champ during our reign of glory...and done coaching with the team of the moment...Geelong....IMO won't get better credentials than that..

Has never ever been involved with a dud team..

 

[The J Dog]

Not exactly the point of the thread, but Craig Lambert is still there.

However, after the ongoing year after year output of our midfield - maybe he shouldn't be.

According to the website Lambert has been reasigned to player welfare. I can't even find Allen's old football manager role listed. Compare our main football staff to the Pies. Spot the difference.

LIONS COACHING & ADMINISTRATION STAFF
Senior Coach – Michael Voss
High Performance Manager – Daniel Collins
Assistant Coaches – Adrian Fletcher, Jade Rawlings
Head of Development – Craig McRae
Leadership & Development Coach – Manny Lynch
Position / Development Coach – Beau McDonald
Welfare Development Manager – Craig Lambert

Collingwood Football Staff
Geoff Walsh Chief of Football
Michael Malthouse Senior Coach
Nathan Buckley Assistant Coach
Scott Watters Assistant Coach
Paul Hudson Assistant Coach
Mark Neeld Assistant Coach
Max Hudghton Defensive Coach
Gavin Brown VFL Coach/Development
Paul Licuria VFL Manager/AFL Assistant
Luke Beveridge Development Manager
Shane Joules Opposition Analyst

 

[MacMum]

Just doesn't look a strong capable list does it?

 

[Mr Ripper]

For all intents and purposes, Lambert's still a coach.

 

[Brisroy Fitzbane]

Fremantle's song writer.

I have to admit, i actually love the Freo song. OOOEEEE-OOOOOOOHH

 

[GabbaFella]

For what its worth, i think we are too predictable, and around the stoppages we are terrible.

Football is a full time job now....players should watch tape after tape of Geelong/Collingwwod?saints kicking the ball out.......what they do, positioning etc......this must cost us at least 2 goals a match

We need plenty of work around the stoppages....the berger tries hard, but he needs to start throwing his arms around and pushing players out of the way.......imposing himself...also, most good teams can extract the ball through quick handball out of a pack.....we really lack good, close skills

I wondered why we brought in rawlings......richmond haven't exactly been a success over the last few years

agree with junkyard dog laidley comments.....he would have been great to have, esp with tactics.....

reality is our first 4 wins, won mostly off Brown, flattered us, and we had an inflated position of where we actually are...we have a lot of work to do

 

[Black Falcon]

Segueing to Freo, they are doing so well with assistant coach Chris Scott who's brought into Freos gameplan some very effective tactics.

Ok , I know they have a 7' ruckman, but any chance we could get C Scott back to help Vossy. Is he a possible replacement?

This season is only going to get worse from here. Will Vossy survive? His inexperience is becoming more obvious with each game. Vossy has to cut out his media spin and posturing. I noticed that on the after match press conf, he couldn't face the cameras when speaking. Last year he was reading the Sports Report on News. Big turn around. Being the COACH is completely different to being the Club Legend.

 

[western royboy]

A concerning thread, not without basis however.

My view is that Vossy as a coach may be similar a he was Voss the player - single minded, my way or the highway. It was of concern to me that we topped up our assistants from Richmond of all places. If we did bring in old heads would he listen?

Off field - obviously the poor financial status is hurting on field. A few years back we were one of the higher football department spends, now I guess we are at the bottom. The ability to compete at the top end wil be defined by not only the quality of players in your club but the effort you spend in developing them. Be prepared for Collingwood to spend a long period around the top of the tree. There development system dwarfs any other club because they put significant time and resources into it.

Coaches are often judged by the players they coach. Hawksley, Stiller, Buchanan aren't going to get Vossy to where he wants to be, its time to go to the next group.

 

[Slattery_20]

A concerning thread, not without basis however.

My view is that Vossy as a coach may be similar a he was Voss the player - single minded, my way or the highway. It was of concern to me that we topped up our assistants from Richmond of all places. If we did bring in old heads would he listen?

I think that's a good point and a very, very big question; considering how many of your off-field setup are Brisbane old boys.

 

[_hyphy]

Have to admit that I'm very disillusioned with the club at the moment. Was pleased that Voss was offered the job, but knew he needed some strong assistants to support him. So far this season, I cannot recall one tactical battle we can claim victory in. The first 4 rounds looked good, because we were winning, but sans the Bulldogs game we weren't playing top notch footy in many games.

This is overly simplistic and pessimistic, but I see some lists coming through and compare them to our youngsters, and I'm concerned where our improvement is going to come from. Our disposal efficiency has been woeful for many years as have our clearances.

Our game plan is so slow and when was the last time our backline switched the ball with any great urgency? Melbourne tore us to shreds with their run and carry, we just don't have the arsenal or the football nous to be able to take the game on.

 

[carlos39]

i think vossy jumped the gun abit wiithout doing the good ole apprenticeship. it does make a difference. not saying he should have defiantely come to us - but anyone. A year in the media and running coaching clinics for talented kids isn't quite the same.

he may still turn it around, but a your big fella looks about 40% (wish he had've been like that when we played you) and you do seem to lack a plan b.

 

[Gibbo_88]

LIONS COACHING & ADMINISTRATION STAFF
Senior Coach – Michael Voss
High Performance Manager – Daniel Collins
Assistant Coaches – Adrian Fletcher, Jade Rawlings
Head of Development – Craig McRae
Leadership & Development Coach – Manny Lynch
Position / Development Coach – Beau McDonald
Welfare Development Manager – Craig Lambert

Collingwood Football Staff
Geoff Walsh Chief of Football
Michael Malthouse Senior Coach
Nathan Buckley Assistant Coach
Scott Watters Assistant Coach
Paul Hudson Assistant Coach
Mark Neeld Assistant Coach
Max Hudghton Defensive Coach
Gavin Brown VFL Coach/Development
Paul Licuria VFL Manager/AFL Assistant
Luke Beveridge Development Manager
Shane Joules Opposition Analyst

Comparing the Lions to the Pies isn't a great comparison considering how much money they have to play with.

Freo has 4 assistant coaches
Port has 7 'assistant' coaches
Sydney has 4 assistant coaches

It doesn't look like there is any clubs with so few assistant coaches as the Lions