The graveyard thread for endless off topic posturing on persons causing bi-polar responses

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Here's some more reports to bake your noodle with:

HRV is a marker of self-regulatory strength and activity:

"Experimental research reliably demonstrates that self-regulatory deficits are a consequence of prior self-regulatory effort. However, in naturalistic settings, although people know that they are sometimes vulnerable to saying, eating, or doing the wrong thing, they cannot accurately gauge their capacity to self-regulate at any given time. Because self-regulation and autonomic regulation colocalize in the brain, an autonomic measure, heart rate variability (HRV), could provide an index of self-regulatory strength and activity. During an experimental manipulation of self-regulation (eating carrots or cookies), HRV was elevated during high self-regulatory effort (eat carrots, resist cookies) compared with low self-regulatory effort (eat cookies, resist carrots). The experimental manipulation and higher HRV at baseline independently predicted persistence at a subsequent anagram task. HRV appears to index self-regulatory strength and effort, making it possible to study these phenomena in the field as well as the lab."

https://psychology.as.uky.edu/heart...s-self-regulatory-strength-effort-and-fatigue

Laziness on the training track results in low HRV which results in low self-regulatory effort in games. Which basically means people with low HRV will want to do the easy things first and neglect the hard stuff...like tackling, chasing back, gut running etc.

HRV influences pain threshold and pain intensity:

"Baseline correlations revealed that lower HF-HRV is related to greater inflexibility and more pain interference, but not pain intensity.
Moreover, psychological inflexibility significantly mediated the relationship between HF-HRV and pain interference. Finally, regression models indicated that baseline psychological inflexibility is a significant predictor of HF-HRV at follow-up and, separately, that baseline HF-HRV significantly predicted pain intensity at follow-up."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29570943

HRV predicts negative mood symptoms:

"Our findings suggest that parasympathetic HRV parameters, i.e., measures related to rest and recovery, could be predictive of performance, while frequency-domain parameters might be more adequate for evaluating negative mood states. This last finding is consistent with reports that HRV is a predictor of negative mood symptoms in athletes."

http://scielo.isciii.es/pdf/ap/v33n3/monografico2.pdf

Low pain threshold, negative mood, and an inability to perform high self-regulatory tasks (things that you have to do, not that you want to do). Sound like anyone that we used to know?

Quack quack, mother******s :p
Nobody is doubting the science Janus. What they're calling bullshit on is your use of the theory as justification for letting go of Polec and Wingard, with no data whatsoever to back that argument up. You have no idea what their HRV levels are, whether the club even measures them, or if the club even gives a shit about them.

FWIW, I'm ok with Polec and Wingard being gone, but as Papa G mentioned before, it's an old fashioned attitude thing. I'd be interested to know how it came to this though, given they previously appeared to love being here.
 
Nobody is doubting the science Janus. What they're calling bullshit on is your use of the theory as justification for letting go of Polec and Wingard, with no data whatsoever to back that argument up. You have no idea what their HRV levels are, whether the club even measures them, or if the club even gives a shit about them.

FWIW, I'm ok with Polec and Wingard being gone, but as Papa G mentioned before, it's an old fashioned attitude thing.

If they don't, they should. It would tell them an awful lot about when certain players should be given high intensity workouts and when they should be given low intensity workouts in preseason.
 
I lol at the Polec and Wingard apologists here attacking Janus for daring to reference them with HRV analysis! How dare he!

As for HRV, I would bet my last dollar that HRV analysis is already being used by our sports scientists. I have no idea about Wingard though, other than that he was a lazy bugger. Super talented, but I for one feel a weight off our shoulder now that he is gone. Good luck to him.
 

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I hope these same people aren't parenting in the same manner as they would be raising self entitled, never accountable, weak, inflexible, churlish brats.

Sounds like everyone under 25.

:eek:
 
That's a very long bow to draw.

One of the most common criticisms of HRV in the research is the propensity for people to see it as a catch all and to draw bigger conclusions than they should.

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

The only bow I’m drawing is the fact that physiology (specifically the cardiovascular system) has a proven effect on psychology, and vice versa. Which is why we concentrate on running so much. And if you can’t or won’t run, it will have a negative impact on your mental health when subjected to tasks that require a high level of self-regulation.

In other words - lack of application in cardiovascular training leads to poor composure and mental resilience in regards to activities like tackling and unrewarded running, both defensively and offensively.

Becoming leaner by converting weight into functional mass could very well be the key to unlocking the positive vibes of 2014 as opposed to the slow and stagnant style of 2015-2018.
 
The fact that Wingard has gone to Hawthorn makes it self evident that it's a failure of the club as much as the individual in this scenario. Clarkson would know everything there is to know about Wingard but he would also know that he has a system and a culture that will drive Wingard's standards and behaviours in a way that Port were unable to.

Clarkson has won 4 flags in 11 years. We've made the finals 3 times in that same 11 years. I think I'll back Hawthorn's opinion over Port's thanks.
 
How does the club do better next time?

Not sure how this is a question that anyone here can answer until the reasoning for his departure is agreed upon by everyone.

Im firmly of the opinion that the Club could have done more to get the best out of Chad AND that Chad has lazy tendencies. I see a lot of people looking for others to pick a aide but the situation doesn't have to be so cut and dry.

The noise coming from some supporters that Chad leaving is 100% the Clubs fault and that Chad is a total Saint is just as foolish and biased as the opinion that Chad is a turncoat with no loyalties and a hunger for the spotlight.

Sure, look into the reasons why you think he might have left but still nobody knows for sure and you're only drawing your own conclusions. You think it's all the Clubs fault and Chad can do no wrong then fine, but that's your starting position and youre looking for evidence to support that claim.

If Chad gets back to his absolute best form at Hawthorn then it will partly because he had a change in attitude.
 
The fact that Wingard has gone to Hawthorn makes it self evident that it's a failure of the club as much as the individual in this scenario. Clarkson would know everything there is to know about Wingard but he would also know that he has a system and a culture that will drive Wingard's standards and behaviours in a way that Port were unable to.

Clarkson has won 4 flags in 11 years. We've made the finals 3 times in that same 11 years. I think I'll back Hawthorn's opinion over Port's thanks.

Wingard will be given free reign to cruise around the forward line, the same way Burgoyne has on a hbf.

Wingard will kick many goals, a fair chunk of them will be clutch and he’ll be adored as the second coming. Like Burgoyne, Wingard won’t be asked to work as hard as he had to at Port and it will still be enough to win games.

The key differences this time around are that there’s no peak Hodge, Mitchell, Lewis, Franklin, Roughead & Gibson running around, no Russell and the draft talent pool hasn’t been sucked dry by the AFL’s foray into Rugby heartland.

I doubt Wingard will get anywhere near the kind of joy Burgoyne has experienced but kudos to Hawthorn for the successful sales pitch. They know how to plunder a vulnerable PAFC.
 
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Whilst Janus' quackery knows no bounds, his actual assessment of the club's reasons for getting rid of both Polec and Wingard is fairly accurate from a football sense. The HRV stuff is complete horseshit, it is more to do with good old fashioned identified laziness.

I think Wingard will turn himself around and be the player we know he can be. But he wouldn’t have done that at Port. Polec wasn’t worth a multi year contract based on his 2018, that’s not what North will get over the duration of his contract. It would hurt a bit, but I reckon your list management made the right call on both.
 
Whilst Janus' quackery knows no bounds, his actual assessment of the club's reasons for getting rid of both Polec and Wingard is fairly accurate from a football sense. The HRV stuff is complete horseshit, it is more to do with good old fashioned identified laziness.
I'd like to see Hinkley's HRV displayed on the Megawall when they cut to the coaches box during an opposition run on while he has that PTSD dog expression on his face. If it confirms his telomeres are shorter than our forward line I'll owe Janus an apology.
 
The fact that Wingard has gone to Hawthorn makes it self evident that it's a failure of the club as much as the individual in this scenario. Clarkson would know everything there is to know about Wingard but he would also know that he has a system and a culture that will drive Wingard's standards and behaviours in a way that Port were unable to.

Clarkson has won 4 flags in 11 years. We've made the finals 3 times in that same 11 years. I think I'll back Hawthorn's opinion over Port's thanks.
Yeah, I can understand that Wingard may have been a bit of a lazy, self-entitled FIGJAM who was a poor influence around the club and that's why he's been moved on.

What's harder to accept is the apparent lack of ability of our coaching staff to turn his behaviour around given the benefits of keeping a massive talent at the club. If he was such a problem where was the tough love during the season to drop him to the Maggies until he got his attitude right? Why wait to the exit interview to tell him to pull his finger out or else?

I'm predicting he'll return to being a superstar under Clarkson. If this happens, we shouldn't console ourselves with the argument that he needed a change of scenery to get the best out of himself and it wouldn't have happened at Port. It should be on the heads of our coaching staff from last season.
 

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Yeah, I can understand that Wingard may have been a bit of a lazy, self-entitled FIGJAM who was a poor influence around the club and that's why he's been moved on.

What's harder to accept is the apparent lack of ability of our coaching staff to turn his behaviour around given the benefits of keeping a massive talent at the club. If he was such a problem where was the tough love during the season to drop him to the Maggies until he got his attitude right? Why wait to the exit interview to tell him to pull his finger out or else?

I'm predicting he'll return to being a superstar under Clarkson. If this happens, we shouldn't console ourselves with the argument that he needed a change of scenery to get the best out of himself and it wouldn't have happened at Port. It should be on the heads of our coaching staff from last season.

If he does turn yet around, it’s absolute proof of the failings of our footy department and just how bad a coach Hinkley is. Should be the final nail in the coffin and bring about multiple sackings/demotions.
 
“Work is love made visible.”

The only person to blame is Wingard. Everything else is just people looking for excuses for someone who said one thing but did another.

And he’s not going to turn it around. He doesn’t love football, so he will never put in the required work.
 
17 clubs wish they had Clarko.
Only one club has him.
If he does turn yet around, it’s absolute proof of the failings of our footy department and just how bad a coach Hinkley is. Should be the final nail in the coffin and bring about multiple sackings/demotions.
So perhaps it would be a testament to how good Clarko is rather than how average Ken is? Just another way of looking at it.
Also Wingard turning around is not absolute proof of anything, just a combination of things coming together. I am happy to blame our club for their part, but Wingard is not an 18 year old and needs to bear some of the responsibility too. Also pne player does not a team make.
 
Don't get me wrong here, Wingard isn't blameless in this, but running a football club is all about keeping a large group of egocentric players with wildly varying personalities happy and pushing in the same direction.

Wingard was, at one point, a very motivated player who loved the club and loved being here and won us games based on his superstar work under pressure.

He lost that and we weren't able to fix it. I don't believe for a second that we weren't capable of fixing it.

If Hawthorn get him motivated, he'll star in their system.
 
17 clubs wish they had Clarko.
Only one club has him.

So perhaps it would be a testament to how good Clarko is rather than how average Ken is? Just another way of looking at it.
Also Wingard turning around is not absolute proof of anything, just a combination of things coming together. I am happy to blame our club for their part, but Wingard is not an 18 year old and needs to bear some of the responsibility too. Also pne player does not a team make.

No one player doesn’t make a team, but they play a very big part. Do Richmond even make the 2017 GF without Dusty ?

Wingard standards slipped becouse they were allowed to, not every AFL player is a footy fanatic who wants to be the absolute best, it takes pushing for some players. As I’ve said many times, it took Robbie doing his ACL to become the professional he is today. Dustin Martin worked heavily with Choco when he was at Richmond to help build him into the player he is now.
 
I'm quite happy with the fact that people who are fitter and better drilled will perform better under pressure than those who are less fit and not as well drilled.

This isn't news.

But talking about HRV levels and how they've impacted our side and certain players without data is pointless and to be argued with the level of arrogance it was is bizarre and typical at the same time.
 
Robbie was always going to become who he is. Some players just have a patchy first couple of seasons. The knee ultimately had no effect on his career trajectory IMO, better or worse.

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I'm quite happy with the fact that people who are fitter and better drilled will perform better under pressure than those who are less fit and not as well drilled.

This isn't news.

But talking about HRV levels and how they've impacted our side and certain players without data is pointless and to be argued with the level of arrogance it was is bizarre and typical at the same time.

Arrogance isn’t letting people know about a measurement of performance that is directly related to cardiovascular health and how it would have been an issue for those who couldn’t or wouldn’t train hard. It’s got nothing to do with being well drilled, so I don’t know why you’ve included that - it’s not anything to do with gameplan, tactics or the like. It’s an internal psychological and physiological marker that is on the cutting edge of sport science that I thought was interesting and explained a lot with regards to attitude and performance.

Do I know what the readings are? Nope. But I’ve got a pretty good idea what they would be, based on on-field performance. I don’t need to see the the cholesterol level of someone who is morbidly obese to know that they’ll most likely have an issue.
 
Based on the onfield performance that saw them both top 6 in our B&F.

In a side that went from 11-4 to missing finals.

No one is questioning their talent. It’s always been about application of that talent.
 

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The graveyard thread for endless off topic posturing on persons causing bi-polar responses

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