Politics The Hangar Politics Thread

[Beerfish]

Seems to be heavy on personal commentary

Sometimes I think people are just trying to get banned so they can claim censorship/victim status.

 

[ant555]

Obviously. You don't have and have never displayed any intention to engage in a substantive debate. I'm just making snide remarks like you do, the key difference is that I know what I'm talking about.


So you can add the former Al Qaeda lead group which is now in control in Syria to the list of merry rebel bands who take power when western interests destabilise countries in the Middle East. It's a good list, full of humanitarians, including the Mujahideen / Taliban in Afghanistan, the Muslim Brotherhood, the current roots for the Iranian regime and the collective of lunatics who became ISIS and ISIL.

They're always called 'rebels' at the start. It's so that people like you are triggered by images of 'the Rebels' in Star Wars. But look when happens when, what we are told would classify as a merry band of rebels gathers together in the US capital, they are called 'insurrectionists'. You don't have to be overthrowing a 'democracy' to be an insurrectionist.

What debate. You just tell everyone they are wrong and who they should be reading. Why would they bother.

 

[Darealrath]

2024 and it's not safe for Jews in many Western cities. Do the useful idiots and their antisemitic allies on the far left and right not realise they are just making the case why Israel must exist?

 

[Kong]

Nobody is coming out of this discussion looking good let alone rational.

you tell em poty

 

[BrunoV]

Seems to be heavy on personal commentary

Well I tried to lay out the information, didn't I?

You mock that and allege conspiracy theorist or its too much to engage. You always have an excuse not to engage. But you always bite, compelled to point out how wrong/crazy my views even though the best youve done so far is prouduce links to NYT articles that came up first in a Google search.

The inability to have a proper discussions is yours, despite you always biting, and I'm merely pointing that out.

 

[faible]

You mock

You always

you always

youve done

is yours

you always

Once more, very heavy on the personal commentary.

 

[faible]

2024 and it's not safe for Jews in many Western cities. Do the useful idiots and their antisemitic allies on the far left and right not realise they are just making the case why Israel must exist?

Strangely, since Israel has started committing mass atrocities, and Netanyahu spends his time saying Israel is all Jews, and all Jews are Israel, idiots are directing their anger at Jews instead of where it should be; at a nation state committing war crimes and crimes against humanity, whose leader has an ICC arrest warrant out against them.

 

[boncer34]

Strangely, since Israel has started committing mass atrocities, and Netanyahu spends his time saying Israel is all Jews, and all Jews are Israel, idiots are directing their anger at Jews instead of where it should be; at a nation state committing war crimes and crimes against humanity, whose leader has an ICC arrest warrant out against them.

Idiots have been directing their anger at Jews a lot longer than Netanyahu's reign of terror.

 

[faible]

Idiots have been directing their anger at Jews a lot longer than Netanyahu's reign of terror.

This is also true.

 

[jmoo wan]

it’s crazy that israel have become the nazis. i’m looking forward to african tribes colonising and enslaving European countries

 

[BrunoV]

Once more, very heavy on the personal commentary.

I know you are but what am I?

 

[ant555]

Did this thread move to bay 13 ?

 

[Beerfish]

Did this thread move to bay 13 ?

They wouldn't take it

 

[Darealrath]

Strangely, since Israel has started committing mass atrocities, and Netanyahu spends his time saying Israel is all Jews, and all Jews are Israel, idiots are directing their anger at Jews instead of where it should be; at a nation state committing war crimes and crimes against humanity, whose leader has an ICC arrest warrant out against them.

What do people expect Israel to do? The standards they are being held to have no historical precedence that I'm aware of.

Hamas, a terrorist organisation whose open aim is genocide of the Jews, carried out one of the most awful modern atrocities on a part of Israel's civilian population that was most friendly to them. Mass rape, and indiscriminate butchering, including of infants. Not only that they filmed it so they could relive the "joy" of the experience and called family members back home to gloat about it, who told them how proud they were. Then they paraded dead bodies of mutilated and r*ped young women to rapturous applause on the streets. At least the Nazis knew what they were doing was wrong and tried to hide it for the most part. Do you realise how sick this was? Completely unjustifiable savagery.

Oh and they also took plenty of women and children hostage and still have not released them, though it seems most are likely now dead. This is glossed over way too much (including by the aid agencies who appear to care more about running interference for Hamas than caring about the depravities the hostages must be suffering).

Then they hide like cowards behind their civilians because their whole strategy is to maximise civilian deaths to garner sympathy (it's worked, sadly).

Despite having the capability to have conducted an actual genocide Israel has shipped an incredible amount of aid in, providing warnings to evacuate areas ahead of strikes and operations (and provided protection to prevent Palestinians civilians being attacked by Hamas when evacuating) and conducted tactical operations that have led to a much higher number of Israeli casualties than indiscriminate bombing would.

I can't think of a recent conflict where one side has gone to such lengths to support the people of the country they are in conflict with - and they still get criticised for it! Can you imagine Putin doing all this in Ukraine!? Assad and whoever the **** else in Syria?

Israel has every right to defend itself, eradicate Hamas so this can never happen again, and attempt to free its hostages. They have shown they are perfectly willing to enter into friendly diplomatic relations with Arab Muslim countries who do not want their genocide and are willing to recognise their right to exist (big ask, I know). They are not the problem.

Eradication of Hamas would also be the best thing long-term for the Palestinians who might end up with a government that actually has an interest in a two-state solution and not just genocide (not to mention enriching its leadership at the expense of the people they are meant to be representing). Hopefully the situation in Syria is indicative of weakened Iranian influence and this can become a reality.

They could have built a mini Dubai in Gaza with all the aid money they have been receiving but Hamas instead decided to use to enrich its leaders, build terror tunnels, and plot genocide. A prolonged ceasefire that allows them to regroup would be a disaster for both Palestinians and Israelis.

it’s crazy that israel have become the nazis. i’m looking forward to african tribes colonising and enslaving European countries

I've seen this comparison online a few times and it's just vile (as well as really ****ing stupid).

 

[Old Campaigner]

43,000 dead civilians doesn’t sound like restraint to me.

 

[Kong]

I'm at a loss for words.

 

[boncer34]

43,000 dead civilians doesn’t sound like restraint to me.

Depends on your viewpoint.

Israel could have very easily carpet bombed the 5.5m population of Palestine into oblivion.

The question to me is more is 43,000 dead civilians a proportional response to 1,200 dead civilians.

Which is a resounding no.

 

[Lore]

I'm at a loss for words.

Me too.

 

[faible]

What do people expect Israel to do? The standards they are being held to have no historical precedence that I'm aware of.

Hamas, a terrorist organisation whose open aim is genocide of the Jews, carried out one of the most awful modern atrocities on a part of Israel's civilian population that was most friendly to them. Mass rape, and indiscriminate butchering, including of infants. Not only that they filmed it so they could relive the "joy" of the experience and called family members back home to gloat about it, who told them how proud they were. Then they paraded dead bodies of mutilated and r*ped young women to rapturous applause on the streets. At least the Nazis knew what they were doing was wrong and tried to hide it for the most part. Do you realise how sick this was? Completely unjustifiable savagery.

Oh and they also took plenty of women and children hostage and still have not released them, though it seems most are likely now dead. This is glossed over way too much (including by the aid agencies who appear to care more about running interference for Hamas than caring about the depravities the hostages must be suffering).

Then they hide like cowards behind their civilians because their whole strategy is to maximise civilian deaths to garner sympathy (it's worked, sadly).

Despite having the capability to have conducted an actual genocide Israel has shipped an incredible amount of aid in, providing warnings to evacuate areas ahead of strikes and operations (and provided protection to prevent Palestinians civilians being attacked by Hamas when evacuating) and conducted tactical operations that have led to a much higher number of Israeli casualties than indiscriminate bombing would.

I can't think of a recent conflict where one side has gone to such lengths to support the people of the country they are in conflict with - and they still get criticised for it! Can you imagine Putin doing all this in Ukraine!? Assad and whoever the **** else in Syria?

Israel has every right to defend itself, eradicate Hamas so this can never happen again, and attempt to free its hostages. They have shown they are perfectly willing to enter into friendly diplomatic relations with Arab Muslim countries who do not want their genocide and are willing to recognise their right to exist (big ask, I know). They are not the problem.

Eradication of Hamas would also be the best thing long-term for the Palestinians who might end up with a government that actually has an interest in a two-state solution and not just genocide (not to mention enriching its leadership at the expense of the people they are meant to be representing). Hopefully the situation in Syria is indicative of weakened Iranian influence and this can become a reality.

They could have built a mini Dubai in Gaza with all the aid money they have been receiving but Hamas instead decided to use to enrich its leaders, build terror tunnels, and plot genocide. A prolonged ceasefire that allows them to regroup would be a disaster for both Palestinians and Israelis.



I've seen this comparison online a few times and it's just vile (as well as really ****ing stupid).

I think we're so far apart on this topic as to render any attempt at discussion meaningless.

If you're of this view, after everything we've seen, with all the information available on the internet, with even the ICC issuing arrest warrants for the leadership of Israel, there's nothing I could possibly say that will matter.

Note that this in no way excuses Hamas et al for the war crimes and crimes against humanity they've committed.

 

[Old Campaigner]

Israel famously let in so much humanitarian aid that the US had to build a port in Gaza to help take some away before innocent civilians drowned in the huge piles of food and water

 

[boncer34]

I think we're so far apart on this topic as to render any attempt at discussion meaningless.

If you're of this view, after everything we've seen, with all the information available on the internet, with even the ICC issuing arrest warrants for the leadership of Israel, there's nothing I could possibly say that will matter.

Note that this in no way excuses Hamas et al for the war crimes and crimes against humanity they've committed.

ICC has also issued arrests for Hamas leaders.

 

[faible]

ICC has also issued arrests for Hamas leaders.

Yes, that's why I said this:

Note that this in no way excuses Hamas et al for the war crimes and crimes against humanity they've committed.

 

[boncer34]

Yes, that's why I said this:

Oh ok. You'd just made sure to specifically mention the ICC warrants for Israel a couple of times. Wasn't sure you were aware they'd also been issued for Hamas.

 

[Kong]

Conflating Hamas with Palestine (or the Netanyahu government with all Jewish people, for that matter) reminds me a lot of some Americans conflating Al Qaeda with Saddam Hussein.

 

[boncer34]

Conflating Hamas with Palestine (or the Netanyahu government with all Jewish people, for that matter) reminds me a lot of some Americans conflating Al Qaeda with Saddam Hussein.

That one was a bit broader in my experience. It seemed to be very much Al Qaeda = Muslim to me.