List Mgmt. The Kelly and All Draft and Trades Discussion Thread- #freetim #ITSHAPPENING

[ROO DOGG]

It just ******* infuriates me to no end that every human being in the history of the AFL is allowed to request a club no questions asked but when Kelly asks to come to WC then he gets the: just go to Freo, it’s the same.

Joe Daniher wants to go Sydney? Fine
Jack Steven wants to go to Geelong? Cool
Paddy Ryder wants to go to St Kilda? Sounds good
Jonathon Patton wants to go to Hawthorn?
Easy
Brad Hill wants to go to St Kilda? No dramas
Tim Kelly wants to go to West Coast? Nah mate what do you mean? Freo is in the same State, fu** you.


Honestly, fu** the AFL media. fu** Damien Barrett, fu** Brandon Goddard. fu** Geelong. fu** Victoria. What is even the point in playing in a comp where we get treated as clubs that aren’t even in the same rank as those other Vic Floggo clubs?

F U C K V I C

2,4,6 all Vic's can eat a bag of dicks.

 

[FreeTK]

Or at least string them out and make them suffer, say all kinds of pathetic things to the media, then say we are dealing respectfully and then refuse to do the deal after making impossible demands.

He is a contracted player ffs.

Geelong should have to pay a lot more than 14 for Brad.

 

[Dark Sharks]

Dunno what i'm more annoyed over

Worpel winning the hawks B&F in his second season (something bettered only by GOAT Leigh Matthews), or Dylan strolling back in here like nobodies business..

 

[Biggie]

Strong suggestion that unless another club is involved the final deal will be 14 + 2019 2nd + 2020 2nd in exchange for T.Kelly + 55 + 2020 3rd.

To the Geelong board!

 

[FreeTK]

I'm start to get the feeling you don't have an opinion of them.

The people in charge of that club are bullies and goons.

All good will towards Geelong is gone.

And if the Catters want to defend the way their club behaves, well......

 

[Biggie]

To the Geelong board!

As expected taking it very well

 

[daddy_4_eyes]

2,4,6 all Vic's can eat a bag of dicks.

Seems unnecessary. Plenty of Vic WCE supporters, members and posters on here.

 

[Astro7]

Whoa...

Everybody, cool out...




First off - I'd be much happier if I had spent the day sleeping. I will spare the details, but involves relatives, airports, long weekend traffic and going an a jog around the block that ended up becoming more than 20km.

Tried to keep up with the 20+ pages being added here on phone during the day, but it's been one of those days to be honest. Easier to post something cohesive now the kids have finally fallen asleep.


Messages have been coming thick and fast but I'm not sure what make of them to be honest - there is a lot of crap that is going around, more than I can recall in previous years, and the trade period isn't even officially open yet.

Take the man of the hour - T.Kelly. I've received everything from it being done in a picks only deal, using only 2019 picks, using next year's picks, to players being added, to two, three, four, five, even six clubs in total being involved.

It is absolutely ridiculous, I have not come across anything like this before over a particular deal. I'm almost at a loss for reasons why, but a lot of normally level-headed people have seemingly lost their composure over this deal - which is simply baffling because it has been fait accompli since it failed to take place in 2018. Considering the time of year, I actually switched the phone off during the day in order to ignore some of the garbage that is coming through.

Points of note:

• Geelong apparently started negotiations asking for two first round picks for T.Kelly this year with extras.
• West Coast opening with 14 + 2020 2nd for T.Kelly.
• The Kelly camp is very upset with the way Geelong have approached this - whatever happens he will not be at the Cats next year.
• T.Kelly will only go to Fremantle as a last resort if a deal with West Coast is unable to be completed.
• Fremantle are offering nothing in addition to their pick 7.
• Strong suggestion that unless another club is involved the final deal will be 14 + 2019 2nd + 2020 2nd in exchange for T.Kelly + 55 + 2020 3rd.
• Should get done early in the period, with other to be done deals dependent upon its outcome.
• Geelong will then offer pick 14 to Adelaide for B.Crouch.
• The Hawthorn pick 11 trade for 24 and 33 (as earlier posted here by WillieNillie) made a lot of rounds yesterday - albeit with a 2020 swap of second and third round picks. Nothing further about it today, which suggests it was on previously then it has cooled now.
• Eagles looking to split and/or trade the remaining second round pick for another midfielder (usual suspects mentioned here - e.g. SPP, Acres, Zuhaar named as well).
• Effectively trading out of the draft for T.Kelly and another player.
• A lot of people involved around clubs are just as puzzled about the potential Daniher to Sydney deal as the rest of us are.
• Nobody seems to be coming up with a way that St Kilda and Carlton can make all these deals happen with the picks they have without getting into absurdity.

Hopefully some sanity starts to kick-in on Monday once deals start getting done. This period so far has been awful for the amount of fake stories going around. Getting to the point where I just want it over already before it even officially begins.

Just having some fun, making light of of a stressy site...and trade.
Am over the Kelly thing now tbh, after seeing him interviewed at the airport, he's playing the field and has every right to do so. Not fussed if we get him or Freo get him.
Although a Kelly/SPP combo sounds delicious.
Que Sera Sera my friends. Monday Bloody Monday?

 

[Shadow89]

Whoa...

Everybody, cool out...




First off - I'd be much happier if I had spent the day sleeping. I will spare the details, but involves relatives, airports, long weekend traffic and going an a jog around the block that ended up becoming more than 20km.

Tried to keep up with the 20+ pages being added here on phone during the day, but it's been one of those days to be honest. Easier to post something cohesive now the kids have finally fallen asleep.


Messages have been coming thick and fast but I'm not sure what make of them to be honest - there is a lot of crap that is going around, more than I can recall in previous years, and the trade period isn't even officially open yet.

Take the man of the hour - T.Kelly. I've received everything from it being done in a picks only deal, using only 2019 picks, using next year's picks, to players being added, to two, three, four, five, even six clubs in total being involved.

It is absolutely ridiculous, I have not come across anything like this before over a particular deal. I'm almost at a loss for reasons why, but a lot of normally level-headed people have seemingly lost their composure over this deal - which is simply baffling because it has been fait accompli since it failed to take place in 2018. Considering the time of year, I actually switched the phone off during the day in order to ignore some of the garbage that is coming through.

Points of note:

• Geelong apparently started negotiations asking for two first round picks for T.Kelly this year with extras.
• West Coast opening with 14 + 2020 2nd for T.Kelly.
• The Kelly camp is very upset with the way Geelong have approached this - whatever happens he will not be at the Cats next year.
• T.Kelly will only go to Fremantle as a last resort if a deal with West Coast is unable to be completed.
• Fremantle are offering nothing in addition to their pick 7.
• Strong suggestion that unless another club is involved the final deal will be 14 + 2019 2nd + 2020 2nd in exchange for T.Kelly + 55 + 2020 3rd.
• Should get done early in the period, with other to be done deals dependent upon its outcome.
• Geelong will then offer pick 14 to Adelaide for B.Crouch.
• The Hawthorn pick 11 trade for 24 and 33 (as earlier posted here by WillieNillie) made a lot of rounds yesterday - albeit with a 2020 swap of second and third round picks. Nothing further about it today, which suggests it was on previously then it has cooled now.
• Eagles looking to split and/or trade the remaining second round pick for another midfielder (usual suspects mentioned here - e.g. SPP, Acres, Zuhaar named as well).
• Effectively trading out of the draft for T.Kelly and another player.
• A lot of people involved around clubs are just as puzzled about the potential Daniher to Sydney deal as the rest of us are.
• Nobody seems to be coming up with a way that St Kilda and Carlton can make all these deals happen with the picks they have without getting into absurdity.

Hopefully some sanity starts to kick-in on Monday once deals start getting done. This period so far has been awful for the amount of fake stories going around. Getting to the point where I just want it over already before it even officially begins.

So you're essentially only handing over Pick 20 and 22 from last year, without the extra 2nd rounder...a year after he becomes AA and finishes Top 5 in the Brownlow? Rates Kelly at 1711 DVI points on the academy scale. That's far, far less than last year, where the 3 second round picks we were offered = 2299 DVI points. So we're essentially only getting Pick 20 and 22 last year by that logic. And you believe this information? This is despite the fact that even Dangerfield netted Pick 9, 28 and a fringe player, and a less skilled (uncontracted) player in Treloar netted Pick 7 and a Future 1st with 27 coming back (14-18 for arguments sake instead of the 7 they ended up with).

I guarantee your club will be looked upon in a bad light if they pull that sort of move. You guys say all this stuff about us, but that would be an abject joke if you offered up that for a top shelf elite mid, who was AA, Top 5 in the Brownlow and 2 x Runner up B + F in his first 2 years. You'd be essentially viewed as using his autistic children to prise him away from the club that drafted him, without providing adequate compensation comparable with previous similar high-profile trades - Dangerfield, Neale, Treloar, Lever, Gibbs, Hogan, Shiel etc. Also looks like you're again playing with Kelly's future and not rating him, by playing games and offering significant unders. Won't look good if he ends up at Freo or has to take a chance on the draft, if you're not willing to deal fairly. We rate him as a Top 10 pick and a 1st and you guys rate him as a couple of 2nd rounders...don't think Kelly would take too kindly to that either.

Also, before you all pile in and say 'what about Jack Steven'...it's been heavily insinuated that we're not actually interested in him at all now, given risk/reward factor. I think there's too many issues there. I hope he stays with St Kilda, as it's best for all.

 

[Dark Sharks]

Ok I've decided. Go **** yourself Ainsworth, and whatever other recruiting clowns ignored the blatant obvious with that selection.





Had these saved for a while, been quietly melting all season. Worpel winning their B&F has just capped it all off.

I've blown a fuse gaiz. Someone call my parents plz

 

[daddy_4_eyes]

So you're essentially only handing over Pick 20 and 22 from last year, without the extra 2nd rounder...a year after he becomes AA and finishes Top 5 in the Brownlow? Rates Kelly at 1711 DVI points on the academy scale. That's far, far less than last year, where the 3 second round picks we were offered = 2299 DVI points. So we're essentially only getting Pick 20 and 22 last year by that logic. And you believe this information? This is despite the fact that even Dangerfield netted Pick 9, 28 and a fringe player, and a less skilled (uncontracted) player in Treloar netted Pick 7 and a Future 1st (14-18 for arguments sake instead of the 7 they ended up with).

I guarantee your club will be looked upon in a bad light if they pull that sort of move. You guys say all this stuff about us, but that would be an abject joke if you offered up that for a top shelf elite mid, who was AA, Top 5 in the Brownlow and 2 x Runner up B + F.

Maybe I'm misreading your rambling post, but how does 14+2x2nd round picks = 20+22?

 

[Biggie]

You'd be essentially viewed as using his autistic children to prise him away from the club that drafted him,

You need to calm down.

 

[ROO DOGG]

Seems unnecessary. Plenty of Vic WCE supporters, members and posters on here.

My quote obviously excludes coaches, players and fans of the the mighty West Coast Eagles, but the rest.......................

 

[kerrazy]

So you're essentially only handing over Pick 20 and 22 from last year, without the extra 2nd rounder...a year after he becomes AA and finishes Top 5 in the Brownlow? Rates Kelly at 1711 DVI points on the academy scale. That's far, far less than last year, where the 3 second round picks we were offered = 2299 DVI points. So we're essentially only getting Pick 20 and 22 last year by that logic. And you believe this information? This is despite the fact that even Dangerfield netted Pick 9, 28 and a fringe player, and a less skilled (uncontracted) player in Treloar netted Pick 7 and a Future 1st with 27 coming back (14-18 for arguments sake instead of the 7 they ended up with).

I guarantee your club will be looked upon in a bad light if they pull that sort of move. You guys say all this stuff about us, but that would be an abject joke if you offered up that for a top shelf elite mid, who was AA, Top 5 in the Brownlow and 2 x Runner up B + F in his first 2 years. You'd be essentially viewed as using his autistic children to prise him away from the club that drafted him, without providing adequate compensation comparable with previous similar high-profile trades - Dangerfield, Neale, Treloar, Lever, Gibbs, Hogan, Shiel etc. Also looks like you're again playing with Kelly's future and not rating him, by playing games and offering significant unders. Won't look good if he ends up at Freo or has to take a chance on the draft, if you're not willing to deal fairly. We rate him as a Top 10 pick and a 1st and you guys rate him as a couple of 2nd rounders...don't think Kelly would take too kindly to that either.

Also, before you all pile in and say 'what about Jack Steven'...it's been heavily insinuated that we're not actually interested in him at all now, given risk/reward factor. I think there's too many issues there. I hope he stays with St Kilda, as it's best for all.

You okay champ?

 

[FreeTK]

My quote obviously excludes coaches, players and fans of the the mighty West Coast Eagles, but the rest.......................

As a person who lives in Melbourne. There is still a prevalent "we are the AFL, love it or leave it" attitude.

For instance, I had a bulldog supporter complaining about all the support the Gold Coast gets (this was before the assistance package). I mentioned that the AFL provides huge financial support to Saints, North and Bulldogs and his response was "yeah, but we have history and heritage".

 

[Shadow89]

You okay champ?

You need to calm down.

Lol, I'm fine. I'm not even having a go at the ITK. I'm having a go at his info, as it makes no sense from everything we know. I'm simply pointing out that no reasonable person (especially one in the know as his 'sources' are claimed to be), would think that was a prospective trade, based on the 'elite' tier player he is, and past similar/relevant trades.

 

[Biggie]

I'm not even having a go at the ITK.

Of course you are

 

[Shadow89]

Of course you are

I'm honestly not. I'm having a go at whoever these people are that are passing the information along to him. He's not just coming up with this on the spot. So whoever is feeding him ridiculous information like this, is not really doing anyone any favours. Hence why I said 'you honestly don't believe this do you?' Considering all the various information he's received, that resulted in him turning his phone off, it's not a stretch to say that it's guesswork at this stage.

I do have an inherent bias against all ITK's though, I'm not gonna lie. In my experience not one of them has ever turned out to be 100% correct (unless it's something so obvious that everyone knows anyway). From what I've seen, his last post about media announcements and Kelly wasn't correct either (due to bad sources). I just think everyone should hold off on all this 'ITK' business, when there's so much misinformation flying around. This one is fairly ridiculous though, as far as standards go.

 

[FreeTK]

Lol, I'm fine. I'm not even having a go at the ITK. I'm having a go at his info, as it makes no sense from everything we know. I'm simply pointing out that no reasonable person (especially one in the know as his 'sources' are claimed to be), would think that was a prospective trade, based on the 'elite' tier player he is, and past similar/relevant trades.

I have seen a few of your posts that suggest TK wants high draft picks as it demonstrates how WC rate him. I have replied to this statement from in the other thread. I just don't think that is how players see it. I think they recognise that many other factors contribute to the exchange of picks that take place, and player's don't infer the value and worth from draft picks. We offered 20+22 last year, and apparently walked away when Geelong asked for more, and yet once again, Tim Kelly has nominated us. If what you said was true, Tim Kelly would have said "I am worth more than that, I'm off to Freo".

So, I think we agree that the trade scenario suggested in Dylan's post is well and truly unders. Other than the actual picks, do you have any thoughts about the other points Dylan made. I.e. Tim Kelly being extremely unhappy with how this has played out?

 

[WCErevival]

Ok I've decided. Go fu** yourself Ainsworth, and whatever other recruiting clowns ignored the blatant obvious with that selection.


View attachment 759432 View attachment 759435View attachment 759438


Had these saved for a while, been quietly melting all season. Worpel winning their B&F has just capped it all off.

I've blown a fuse gaiz. Someone call my parents plz

Isn't that kind of embarrassing for Hawthorn with a 2nd year player winning the B&F.

 

[daddy_4_eyes]

I'm honestly not. I'm having a go at whoever these people are that passing the information along to him. He's not just coming up with this on the spot. So whoever is feeding ridiculous information like this, is not really doing anyone any favours.

Your comprehension of what he suggested as the trade is wrong. You're missing a whole first round draft pick in your reply post.

 

[Godfather32]

Oh good, SookyLala89 is back

 

[Gaffy Duck]

So you're essentially only handing over Pick 20 and 22 from last year, without the extra 2nd rounder...a year after he becomes AA and finishes Top 5 in the Brownlow? Rates Kelly at 1711 DVI points on the academy scale. That's far, far less than last year, where the 3 second round picks we were offered = 2299 DVI points. So we're essentially only getting Pick 20 and 22 last year by that logic. And you believe this information? This is despite the fact that even Dangerfield netted Pick 9, 28 and a fringe player, and a less skilled (uncontracted) player in Treloar netted Pick 7 and a Future 1st with 27 coming back (14-18 for arguments sake instead of the 7 they ended up with).

I guarantee your club will be looked upon in a bad light if they pull that sort of move. You guys say all this stuff about us, but that would be an abject joke if you offered up that for a top shelf elite mid, who was AA, Top 5 in the Brownlow and 2 x Runner up B + F in his first 2 years. You'd be essentially viewed as using his autistic children to prise him away from the club that drafted him, without providing adequate compensation comparable with previous similar high-profile trades - Dangerfield, Neale, Treloar, Lever, Gibbs, Hogan, Shiel etc. Also looks like you're again playing with Kelly's future and not rating him, by playing games and offering significant unders. Won't look good if he ends up at Freo or has to take a chance on the draft, if you're not willing to deal fairly. We rate him as a Top 10 pick and a 1st and you guys rate him as a couple of 2nd rounders...don't think Kelly would take too kindly to that either.

Also, before you all pile in and say 'what about Jack Steven'...it's been heavily insinuated that we're not actually interested in him at all now, given risk/reward factor. I think there's too many issues there. I hope he stays with St Kilda, as it's best for all.

 

[garlic munchers]

Steven Wells on Jack Stevens:

"If it turned out he came to Geelong, we'd be going in eyes wide open and understanding what that would mean to Jack and what we could expect if Jack did come to Geelong," Wells told Telstra AFL Trade Radio.

"But I think that one has now become a long way off.

"St Kilda, where he's contracted, of course, are a good club and if he ends up playing there, I'm sure they'll be doing everything, like we would, to help Jack get back to being the best footballer he can be and happy in his life."

 

[boondy]

This isn’t going to please those already peeved about us drafting Ainsworth ahead of Worpel

Lets be honest. Everyone in the thread that day was delighted Worpel was still there and not 1of us wanted Ainsworth . He must have been a flight risk .