List Mgmt. The Kelly and All Draft and Trades Discussion Thread- #freetim #ITSHAPPENING

[Dark Sharks]

Way more upside than downside for SPP.

So he's not a great kick, fine. It's not like that means he should instantly have a line through his name.

Don't have him trying to pinpoint passes in defense or inside 50, and avoid switching play or going through the corridor with him. We do the same with Hutch.

He can still launch a ball, he can still win clearances, bust tackles, do the grunt work and heavy lifting with his explosiveness through stoppages

 

[kerrazy]

I reckon SPP wouldn't cost too much either. Was dropped a number of times this season. Maybe we could reverse Ebert those campaigners.

 

[BartBart]

But "not a great kick" is overselling his kicking ability. Poor to very poor would be more accurate.

These days you can't afford to give the ball away so easily.

 

[GWeagles]

Way more upside than downside for SPP.

So he's not a great kick, fine. It's not like that means he should instantly have a line through his name.

Don't have him trying to pinpoint passes in defense or inside 50, and avoid switching play or going through the corridor with him. We do the same with Hutch.

He can still launch a ball, he can still win clearances, bust tackles, do the grunt work and heavy lifting with his explosiveness through stoppages

I agree. A big body and runs straight lines

 

[FreeTK]

I reckon SPP wouldn't cost too much either. Was dropped a number of times this season. Maybe we could reverse Ebert those campaigners.

All the things I have heard is his ball use lets him down. Our ball use is a key element of our game plan/strategy.

How would we integrate SPP in to our team?

Would we take away his kicking licence until we can skill him up?

 

[kranky al]

simple question, if he needed all this support etc why is he still in geelong?

Well hes on holidays now so hes on hand 24/7 to help out.

Were you as angsty when

Henderson

Smith

Rohan

Tohey

Stanley

Clarke

Ablett

Caddy



Requested trades and nominated geelong?

Or is it just when a player leaves and nominates a club that you carry on like a jilted lover

 

[FreeTK]

simple question, if he needed all this support etc why is he still in geelong?

This aged well....

 

[frenchconnection]

We surely have to be one of the worst teams out there at identifying and drafting young midfield talent.
But all you get from the supposed inside guy on here is we haven't missed anyone over the years, hindsight, we haven't had enough high picks, hard to get good midfielders without high picks blah blah blah. It's a load of crap, there are decent midfielders drafted later on in plenty of drafts, we're just really bad at working out who they are.

Yes think our List Managers in past drafts have left a bit to be desired generally speaking. Probably a hard 'gig' but too many mistakes IMO.

 

[Max zero]

All the things I have heard is his ball use lets him down. Our ball use is a key element of our game plan/strategy.

How would we integrate SPP in to our team?

Would we take away his kicking licence until we can skill him up?

Meh we can carry Hutchings and Nelson with their pretty average kicking skills. SPP can replace one of them.

 

[kerrazy]

All the things I have heard is his ball use lets him down. Our ball use is a key element of our game plan/strategy.

How would we integrate SPP in to our team?

Would we take away his kicking licence until we can skill him up?

Even though we have a strong ball use strategy, not all our players are exceptional kicks. I do remember Priddis playing much better when he stuck to his strengths (handball) and less to his weaknesses (kicking). Maybe we can try the same with him.

 

[Yamumluvsbigcox]

Im putting on my Obeanie1 hat on and try a 3way



Wce
Get tim kelly issac smith
Lose petracelle + 24 + future 1st

Geelong
get 11+ future first
Lose kelly + 3rd

Values kelly approx 2250 which is more than danger slightly less than contracted neale

Hawks
Get petracelle + 24 + 3rd ( geelong )
Lose 11 + smith

Value = pick 45 + smith for petracelle

We offer issac smith a 2 year contract with a trigger for 3rd year as he is only getting 1 year atm . Bit like the mitchell and lewis deals . Hawks also put $ towards his salary

We lose petracelle but I have a feeling big offers for him will roll in next year we cant match .

 

[frenchconnection]

It's also been said that Geelong 'got ahead' of things because his manager leaked it to a journo at the combine. His statement was first, don't forget.

Except for the fact that the very ITK you all trust, has said as much in his breakdown of info re: Fremantle being a option.

You're just spouting rhetoric now without any substantiation to back it up. You've been reasonable on both boards up until this point, not sure why this is turning verbose now.

I don't know how many trades you've seen take place, but the whole reason this BS of Freo being 'in the frame' came up, is because last year Kelly's manager tried to force us into trading him - on compassionate grounds - but on the proviso that he will only go to West Coast...a year after being drafted...and chased all year by West Coast. We weren't happy about that, and we found it reasonable for him to go to either club, if he 'absolutely had to leave to get home.' Which, if you'll remember, is the exact same thing GC said about Ablett, and the exact same thing said about Gibbs at Carlton. Neither were traded the first time they tried. Ablett's sister died in the interim (his need to get home), and you don't see them copping the abuse that we have for something far more serious.

Yet this Kelly scenario somehow turned into a public scene, where we were being 'unfair' and not offering enough public support to Caitlin (even though we had a soft cap that we couldn't just go outside). However, the narrative didn't line up because he was only going to go to 1 club, despite us being the ones who had to lose a good player we had just drafted. Not since Buckley, when the rules were changed surrounding the draft around draft tampering, has there been a 1st year player who was a gun, who then broke his contract, and then would only head to 1 club. It gave us no lee way, and we were left with no option but to entertain the trade. We entertained it, but ultimately it never came to fruition. Tim rocked up the next year, he played even better, became AA and finished Top 5 in the Brownlow. This is despite some WC posters saying that he was so disgruntled and hated Geelong so much that he would sit out the year. He then started his own column, we offered more support, and there was even talk he might stay, such was the positive situation at the club.

Scott has then come out and made an idiot out of himself, and probably pi**ed off Kelly (I'm not doubting that). Since then, there's been bits and pieces that have been floating around, but the only concrete things I've seen are how Kelly behaved at the Carji - him and Caitlin had many photos with their friendship group on instagram - and how he responded in his media interview yesterday - that he's important to us as a player, and we deserve a good deal.

That's where we're at now. We haven't treated him like a 'commodity.' A lot of WC supporters seem to think that he's been your player since day 1, and that we had no right to draft him. That's draft tampering. A player goes where he is drafted, which he agreed to, to get his shot. He can't then say 'I need to go home...but I'll only go here, less than 1 year after we drafted him. There'd be no point in the draft then. Despite all the rhetoric, even Shiel was happy to go to Carlton last year, if the Essendon deal couldn't be worked out.

He absolutely has every right to nominate his preference this year, but we have every right to receive apt compensation for losing his services. There's rarely been a player as good as Kelly in his first 2 years, so the situation is pretty unusual.

All of this hyperbole and rhetoric surrounding how we 'treated him' and all this BS, is just that. Read his Geelong Advertiser articles. Look at his wife's instagram and the 'Geelong family' photos. Look at how he speaks in pressers when he refers to us.

You guys can choose to believe this narrative, it's your prerogative. But remember, before this whole Kelly scenario, we were widely seen as fair traders and fair operators as an AFL organization. We are still the only team in history to give away premiership points to another team, because of tragic circumstances. We also abolished all gambling advertising on the ground, and got rid of all gaming machines. Throw in our commitment to special needs kids (one guy in particular who is just amazing), and our large group of Indigenous and non-Australian kids (7 now with Kelly gone) - and you can see we're not really that bad.

All we WCE supporters want is an even playing field - not one rule for others and another rule for WCE! Very hypocritical to say the least! Doesn't matter what the reason is for Tim wanting WCE as his preferred Club - he has chosen and his wishes should be respected like all other players who wish to be traded to another Club of their choosing. Particularly as Tim is coming out of contract this year but GFC are carrying on as though he is still in contract???

 

[Max zero]

Im putting on my Obeanie1 hat on and try a 3way



Wce
Get tim kelly issac smith
Lose petracelle + 24 + future 1st

Geelong
get 11+ future first
Lose kelly + 3rd

Values kelly approx 2250 which is more than danger slightly less than contracted neale

Hawks
Get petracelle + 24 + 3rd ( geelong )
Lose 11 + smith

Value = pick 45 + smith for petracelle

We offer issac smith a 2 year contract with a trigger for 3rd year as he is only getting 1 year atm . Bit like the mitchell and lewis deals . Hawks also put $ towards his salary

We lose petracelle but I have a feeling big offers for him will roll in next year we cant match .

Is Issac Smith the new CEY or Brumbies joke?

What is people's fascination with this guy? He will be 31 at the start of next season!

 

[GWeagles]

Even though we have a strong ball use strategy, not all our players are exceptional kicks. I do remember Priddis playing much better when he stuck to his strengths (handball) and less to his weaknesses (kicking). Maybe we can try the same with him.

We also need a big cannonball out there. Sometimes a bit of tough footy is needed

 

[frenchconnection]

I feel that supporters of both clubs need to take a chill pill and wait for the two clubs to sort this out in due course.

Tim Kelly is indisputably a very good player and instantly makes us a better side so it’s only natural that Geelong will want to maximise their trade return. Conversely West Coast will want to minimise the price they pay - a low initial offer is not an indication that they don’t rate Kelly but just a normal negotiating strategy. They’ll know what price they’re willing to pay before walking away but won’t open with that just as Geelong will ask for more initially than they’re prepared to trade him for

Despite a deal not being struck last year there was no animosity between the clubs and that appears to still be the case. They are both well run clubs and will keep it professional without the tantrum throwing that supporters carry on with. As much as we can be disappointed Geelong didn’t trade Kelly last year they were within their rights to retain him and the year he had in 2019 justified that position

Both clubs will have prepared for this trade as they will have, if not expected it outright, known it was a possibility. I won’t be done on day one or even during the first week but I think a deal will eventually be agreed upon. West coast supporters will complain we gave away too much, Geelong supporters will be unhappy with what they get but Kelly will be in the wings and both clubs will move on. I doubt sections of each supporter base will and the name calling will continue on unabated

And nothing we say here or elsewhere will make a jot of difference

Agree as a bit of bartering never goes astray

 

[year of the cat]

Im putting on my Obeanie1 hat on and try a 3way



Wce
Get tim kelly issac smith
Lose petracelle + 24 + future 1st

Geelong
get 11+ future first
Lose kelly + 3rd

Values kelly approx 2250 which is more than danger slightly less than contracted neale

Hawks
Get petracelle + 24 + 3rd ( geelong )
Lose 11 + smith

Value = pick 45 + smith for petracelle

We offer issac smith a 2 year contract with a trigger for 3rd year as he is only getting 1 year atm . Bit like the mitchell and lewis deals . Hawks also put $ towards his salary

We lose petracelle but I have a feeling big offers for him will roll in next year we cant match .

Think we'd push for 11 and 14 rather than you future first under that scenario. Not far away from what we'd be after imo.

 

[15yearmember]

Wasn't comparing GC to GFC at all - I was using the similarity of a top player wanting to be traded to a Club who have had success. GC fought tooth and nail for this not to happen (like Geelong are doing now). Where the outgoing Club is on the ladder is irrelevant to this discussion. Just talking about the trade itself.

Was joking mate. Failed to attach appropriate emoji. Sorry.

 

[Yamumluvsbigcox]

Think we'd push for 11 and 14 rather than you future first under that scenario. Not far away from what we'd be after imo.

Meh kelly is uncontracted so maybe compromises will have to be made

 

[Yamumluvsbigcox]

Is Issac Smith the new CEY or Brumbies joke?

What is people's fascination with this guy? He will be 31 at the start of next season!

Still has pace and very damaging with ball in hand .
Our window is now and he is way better than both masten and petracelle on a wing or HFF .

 

[year of the cat]

Meh kelly is uncontracted so maybe compromises will have to be made

I’d say with that deal we already are.

 

[Max zero]

Still has pace and very damaging with ball in hand .
Our window is now and he is way better than both masten and petracelle on a wing or HFF .

Just no. We ain't that desperate. Just because we are in a flag window does not mean we throw our future to the winds.

Masten is already gone. Giving a 31 yo a 2-3 year contact especially at the cost of a 20 yo who has shown a fair bit is just madness.

 

[Yamumluvsbigcox]

I’d say with that deal we already are.

So you think you should get more for an uncontracted kelly than for a contracted Neale .

If your answer is yes you are a dumb ****wit

 

[Trav22]

We also need a big cannonball out there. Sometimes a bit of tough footy is needed

This couldn’t be any more true
At some stages this year our players got made to look very soft

 

[Yamumluvsbigcox]

Just no. We ain't that desperate. Just because we are in a flag window does not mean we throw our entire future to the winds.

Masten is already gone. Giving a 31 yo a 2-3 contact is just madness especially at the cost of a 20 yo who has shown a fair bit.

I dont think petch stays after next year . We cant offer salary wise what will be offered to go home

 

[LittleGreekGod]

Still has pace and very damaging with ball in hand .
Our window is now and he is way better than both masten and petracelle on a wing or HFF .

Totally agree
Has been the most complete wingman in the competition for last six years
Has a habit of making things happen against the flow. Has three or four years left in him being s late starter to AFL