The Matthews / Bruns incident. What was it that caused the aftermath ?

[Shane Heard]

So basically this is just I hate Hawthorn with what your posting. Admitting your team had thugs too but ours were worse. Your 2000 team had quite a few nasty snipers in it as well. Solomon, Wallis, Moorcroft was a piece of s**t too who loved a fight. Long's hit on Simmonds in the GF was about as gutless and cowardly as can get. These days you would get 10 weeks for something like that. Common denominator is that Sheedy was still your coach. Not the most likeable bloke either from what I hear around the traps from the other coaches outside of Hawthorn so it's a bit rich your moaning and complaining about how other teams went about things.

Yeah fair enough.

Im not moaning about it. Just stating facts about certain players who weren’t Essendon players and liked to smash blokes.

Jason Johnson, Mark Johnson, Harvey , Hardwick and Solomon and Wallis all committed numerous thuggerish acts of violence and we loved it..because they played for us.

 

[AlwaysHawks15]

Turn it up ffs lol

A late, deliberate thuggish elbow to the face at full pace while they player clearly takes a mark and his defenceless with arms up is in the king hit category and you know it.

Could have killed the bloke considering how much dipper weighed and the force of power he inflicted.

He hadn't taken the mark you goose it was a loose ball that Walsh had just taken possession of and Dipper did a drive by with the elbow. Not great yea but your rewriting the narrative here.

 

[Robroy22]

Yeah I was there too in 90’..I was 20 years old

But standing room rear punt rd end so a fair way away from it and I was drunk as hell by then because me and my mate got in there at 9am to get a spot and from memory they started serving beer at 10.30 or so.

Terry was at the end of his time then and I can honestly say it was totally out of character him doing that.

All the way back to when he debuted for Essendon 78’ I cannot remember a moment of him doing something thuggish.

All I mostly remember of that game is how well Millane played. We had a huge bloke next to us who was a pie with a booming voice and would yell out “ the raggggggggging bullll!!!” every time he got the ball.

We left 10 minutes into the last.

You could hear the Collingwood crowd from Richmond platform when the siren went …

The brawl was down our end but even then we had no idea why Brown was unconscious or who hit him. TD got booed all day and we assumed he did it but as you say violence like that wasn't his go (or Rowdy's). TD later worked at Collingwood and we all loved his laid back approach to life.

The inspiration provided when Brown came back on and chested TD then kicked a goal was a real indicator of the Matthew's coached Pies back then. I agree that Millane was amazing that day as he had been the whole finals series playing all 4 finals with a badly broken (and rebroken/reset/ rebroken) right thumb.

 

[Shane Heard]

The brawl was down our end but even then we had no idea why Brown was unconscious or who hit him. TD got booed all day and we assumed he did it but as you say violence like that wasn't his go (or Rowdy's). TD later worked at Collingwood and we all loved his laid back approach to life.

The inspiration provided when Brown came back on and chested TD then kicked a goal was a real indicator of the Matthew's coached Pies back then. I agree that Millane was amazing that day as he had been the whole finals series playing all 4 finals with a badly broken (and rebroken/reset/ rebroken) right thumb.

Yep the broken thumb story is quite incredible. To have it reset after every game and then run around at training basically using one good hand to “ rest it” is testament to Millane’s toughness.

Millane, Kelly, Gayfer, Shaw, Banks, Morewood, Kerrison ..were all a massive reason why you won that flag.

Brutal competitors all of them.

 

[Gordon Farkas]

This thread is a great reminder that the past isn’t always better.

Am I right in saying trial by video was introduced in the aftermath of the Matthews hit on Bruns?

Also hawks fans booed bruns from then on, watch the 89 GF and he is booed whenever he gets the ball.

This. Bruns would get booed at every Cats-Hawks game until his retirement in 1992. At one such game I asked someone why.
“For walking into Leigh Matthews’ fist five years ago”, was the reply.
One of the various reasons for which I somewhat dislike Hawthorn and its supporter base.

 

[Gordon Farkas]

Nope.

Neville Bruns was a dirty sniper who regularly took sneaky sly shots at Hawthorn players over the years. Always when they weren't looking. He was reported by umpires in the 1st half of that 1985 game at Princes Park for cowardly punching Michael Tuck.

Geelong went after the Hawks that day, going the knuckle in the first half and again in the last quarter, well before Lethal lashed out. (Just like they did in the 1989 GF)

Has anyone mentioned this yet in the previous 4 pages of the thread or have they conveniently glossed over this fact?

Leigh Matthews noted in his autobiography that Bruns was a hypocrite who liked to dish it out, but who squealed like a bitch when he copped some back. "Live by the sword, die by the sword."

Bruns also decided to press charges against Matthews, the first time any VFL player had done that before. So much for the players' code!!!

Rightly or wrongly, that was the reason why Bruns was booed by Hawks fans for the remainder of his career.

Typical of some of you Geelong flogs to act holier than thou and to ignore the totality of the facts and to pretend the 'old school' violence on the footy field wasn't a two way street.

​

So - is that the defence that Matthews used in court after he was charged?

Whoops, I forgot - he pleaded guilty.

 

[FreddyTwoShoes]

Just trying to shift that inappropriate preview picture.

 

[Back One Out]

So - is that the defence that Matthews used in court after he was charged?

Whoops, I forgot - he pleaded guilty.

I wasn't defending Matthews

I was explaining why Hawthorn fans booed Neville Bruns for the next 5 or 6 years.

 

[Wallaby]

I remember reading this article back in 2018 (the headline line is very memorable) - it written during the furore surrounding the Andrew Gaff

3

Andrew Gaff

Age

32

Ht

184cm

Wt

83kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

26.6

5star

K

15.9

5star

HB

10.7

5star

M

4.8

5star

T

2.0

4star

CL

2.5

4star

D

24.5

5star

K

15.6

5star

HB

8.9

4star

M

5.4

5star

T

2.0

3star

CL

2.5

4star

D

11.2

3star

K

8.0

3star

HB

3.2

3star

M

3.2

4star

T

0.6

3star

CL

0.6

3star

incident. It sums up fairly accurately how violence in football was perceived back in the 70s and 80s (with a summary of Leigh Mathew's 'abilities').

Interesting that the coach is mentioned, but not named - it's very easy to work out who the coach referred to was. Possibly because the writer (or his editor) realised if he had mentioned the coach by name, that publicity (whether positive or negative) would have totally overshadowed the main point of the article.

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl...-that-was-the-end-of-him-20180810-p4zwq3.html

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Got some points with Merv, Roger and Ronnie… but their job there in part was to protect Watson, Daisy Williams, Leon Baker and other fair ball players from psychopaths like Dermott and Dipper.

Colin Robertson hitting Watson in 83’gf actually spured us on to make sure we smash you in the next two grand finals.

You were humiliated on both of those days and it was glorious

Personally I wouldn’t actually put Dermie in the same class. Of course he pulled some sneaky shit.

But Dipper and Matthews were in a class of their own for me. Complete thugs.

Obviously both could seriously play, that’s not my point.

 

[Partridge]

This thread is a great reminder that the past isn’t always better.

Am I right in saying trial by video was introduced in the aftermath of the Matthews hit on Bruns?

Also hawks fans booed bruns from then on, watch the 89 GF and he is booed whenever he gets the ball.

Not quite. From memory it was two other incidents a couple of years later.

One was Jim Edmond elbowing Russell Morris, and I think what really prompted it was Rod Grinter's roundhouse on Terry Wallace. Grinter's may have been the first instance of video evidence used to report someone.

 

[Partridge]

And watching that video, what struck me was how close to the end of the game that was, I think the finals scores barely changed before Jacko's hit..although he did get whacked by Ayres in the marking contest though. He only played three more senior games after that, brought back for his only goal-less game in Rd 21 when Geelong lost to the Tigers at Waverley. Certainly an ugly sight, and footy is better nowadays without these king hits and stuff.

Like all things, there's a lot of mythology about that game. It was spiteful all day long, and it was not all started by Jackson. If people ever bothered to watch the footage there was lots of niggling going on. Just as many Hawthorn players as Geelong were giving it out. The only really dirty act was what Matthews did. The notion that it was somehow a one-off because of what Bruns did is laughable. Matthews had a history of cheap dirty hits going back 15 years. It wasn't out of character for him, it was completely in character.

 

[kickazz]

Jason Johnson, Mark Johnson, Harvey , Hardwick and Solomon and Wallis all committed numerous thuggerish acts of violence and we loved it..because they played for us.

That's a pretty shit attitude if you don't mind me being 100% honest. (Appreciating your honesty ITT by the way)

It's one thing to hear older folk lament that the game is a bit too soft now, etc etc. But to actually get enjoyment out of watching people dish out cheapies? I find that a bit repulsive. Then again, this was the era of regular fights in pubs on Saturday nights and all sorts of shit like that - fights were part of the game, long term head injuries just weren't discussed I suppose.

Has your feeling about those things changed at all over the years, if so, how/when?

 

[Rich]

One was Jim Edmond elbowing Russell Morris, and I think what really prompted it was Rod Grinter's roundhouse on Terry Wallace. Grinter's may have been the first instance of video evidence used to report someone.

Remember the scoreboard at Carrara after Edmund walloped Morris into next week.

“Cop that!”

 

[Chief]

Just trying to shift that inappropriate preview picture.

I found the post and deleted the attached image from the system.

 

[Oliver09]

He hadn't taken the mark you goose it was a loose ball that Walsh had just taken possession of and Dipper did a drive by with the elbow. Not great yea but your rewriting the narrative here.

The footage of the moments straight after that incident is in one way funny but also very telling. There was one Essendon trainer absolutely furious with what happened, he's screaming at Dipper and then Dermie gets involved and to a lesser degree the rest of the Essendon trainers. I reckon the Stoneham hit of the previous year was still very fresh in the mind of Essendon people. Both hits were shockers just over a year apart.

The commentary was different by today's standards as well. Merrett came on for Walsh and Peter Landy makes a remark about how things could get a bit more lively. Walsh is carted off on a stretcher looking terrible but the boundary rider informed the commentators that he was alright. They were definitely glorifying the violence.

 

[Altum Volantes]

Thank god today’s group of coaches are not as morally corrupt as teetotaling cops who get paid to organise acts of thuggery, both on and off the field.

 

[kickazz]

The commentary was different by today's standards as well.

I can recall watching footage of a game (perhaps the one where Mike Fitzpatrick has a free reversed for taking too long?) where there is a fight in the crowd. The commentators don't celebrate it or anything, but they are far from admonishing it either. Just blase "that's life"

 

[caveman72]

And allegedly very traditional in discipline, read into that what you will.

He carried a phonebook

 

[Shane Heard]

That's a pretty s**t attitude if you don't mind me being 100% honest. (Appreciating your honesty ITT by the way)

It's one thing to hear older folk lament that the game is a bit too soft now, etc etc. But to actually get enjoyment out of watching people dish out cheapies? I find that a bit repulsive. Then again, this was the era of regular fights in pubs on Saturday nights and all sorts of s**t like that - fights were part of the game, long term head injuries just weren't discussed I suppose.

Has your feeling about those things changed at all over the years, if so, how/when?

Im not talking about cheapies mate.

I’m talking about brutal tackles and man on man accountability to destroy your forward opponent and deny them a scoring opportunity.

As Solomon, Hardwick, Wellman, MJ, Rama and Fletcher did in 2000 week after week like robotic soldiers.

Total domination in the backline.

That’s what I loved.

 

[Shane Heard]

Personally I wouldn’t actually put Dermie in the same class. Of course he pulled some sneaky s**t.

But Dipper and Matthews were in a class of their own for me. Complete thugs.

Obviously both could seriously play, that’s not my point.

Yeah well I’ve got a very good memory of Derm back in that day.

He used to relentlessly niggle our backman when the ball was done the other end. Verbal and psychically.

And if he knew he couldn’t take the mark in a pack or a one on one, he’d make sure there was a crunch or a fist to the back of the head to put boys under pressure.

Derm was a lout..a hoon… but when it came his turn to go and he was clear, he’d more than often deliver results for his side.

A wonder competitor.

 

[Shane Heard]

The footage of the moments straight after that incident is in one way funny but also very telling. There was one Essendon trainer absolutely furious with what happened, he's screaming at Dipper and then Dermie gets involved and to a lesser degree the rest of the Essendon trainers. I reckon the Stoneham hit of the previous year was still very fresh in the mind of Essendon people. Both hits were shockers just over a year apart.

The commentary was different by today's standards as well. Merrett came on for Walsh and Peter Landy makes a remark about how things could get a bit more lively. Walsh is carted off on a stretcher looking terrible but the boundary rider informed the commentators that he was alright. They were definitely glorifying the violence.

And Roger took a very difficult one grab mark in the square moments later after play resumed …from a gigantic mongrel 55 mtr spiral torp kicked by Vanders.

Goal.

Glorious.

 

[Number37]

In an era where the good players were always protected by 'thugs' it seems a little harsh to point the finger at one or two coaches for green lighting thuggish behaviour when in reality all the coaches did what they had to do to win games and protect their better players.

 

[GWT6]

Like all things, there's a lot of mythology about that game. It was spiteful all day long, and it was not all started by Jackson. If people ever bothered to watch the footage there was lots of niggling going on. Just as many Hawthorn players as Geelong were giving it out. The only really dirty act was what Matthews did. The notion that it was somehow a one-off because of what Bruns did is laughable. Matthews had a history of cheap dirty hits going back 15 years. It wasn't out of character for him, it was completely in character.

Yep - Matthews was a coward and the biggest sook to play the game.

He was getting beaten by a first game from Melbourn one time, so king hit him - a 19-year-old kid, and Matthews was a man at his peak physically. He did the same to Steven Smith and Peter Giles. If he was getting beaten, he would king hit people when they had their backs turned. That should be his legacy, but the AFL circle jerk covers it up.

Just a gutless sook.

 

[kickazz]

Yep - Matthews was a coward and the biggest sook to play the game.

He was getting beaten by a first game from Melbourn one time, so king hit him - a 19-year-old kid, and Matthews was a man at his peak physically. He did the same to Steven Smith and Peter Giles. If he was getting beaten, he would king hit people when they had their backs turned. That should be his legacy, but the AFL circle jerk covers it up.

Just a gutless sook.

Yeah I honestly don't get the esteem he is held in.